Originally Posted by hulababy

Obamacare includes a mandate that EVERYONE buy government - approved health insurance or face a PENALTY. This mandate is unconstitutional and violates personal liberty.
Obamacare includes a requirement that employers with 50 or more employees provide government approved health insurance or face a FINE. This mandate will hit workers through lower wagesw and FEWER JOBS, shareholders lower profits and consumers through HIGHER PRICES.

Obamacare spends more than $400 billion in the first 10 yrs to subsidize health ins offered through government designed exchanges. This will discourage work and encourage employers to discontinue offering health insurance.
Medicare cuts will jeopardize seniors access to care and services. Advisory board put in place to decide if YOU are worth deserve that new hip.
Obamacare includes $500 billion in NEW taxes. Many of these will be passed on to YOU the consumer in higher prices.
Government regulation - adds layers of regulation and benefit mandates on insurers and the insurance maker and on employer health plans. These provisions will increase costs, destabilize the market, and reduce consumer choice.

SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLAN!! COMING SOON TO LIBERALS EVERYWHERE.

When you get your refund check from your insurance company because of the Affordable Care Act, send it back. Tell them you want no part of any money gained from this blankin' law that the blankin' government is forcing on you.

Originally Posted by travelguy

i have neighbors and friends here in the villages who are also canadian citizens. i hear no complaints about the healthcare system that they are part of. it is unconscionable that in this country there are many, many people without any healthcare options. the canadians that i know cannot understand how any civilized society would deny healthcare, and leave it all up to the individual. hats off to obama and the congress for passing the healthcare initiative; just think of how much better off we would be already if hilary clinton's plans had been put into place when she was first lady. we would already have healthcare for all!

Mandating that everyone gets an insurance card--either public or private--is not health care. Health care is a physician and other clinicians assessing one's health condition, diagnosing, and treating acute and chronic ailments.

Health care is not the ownership of a card that says somebody else will pay the bills.

The Washington DC politicians are doing nothing to assure that there are enough required residency training positions of new medical school graduates, so that there are actually doctors who can SEE all the people with that shiny new public or private insurance card in their wallets.

Instead, they have passed a 2700-page law containing everything but the kitchen sink, that puts us and our kids and grandkids in trillions of dollars of unfunded liability/debt, without increasing the already too-few required, residency-training positions needed to make even a DENT in the existing shortage of primary-care doctors.

As a Canadian supreme court judge stated a few years ago, "Access to a wait list is not 'healthcare'". And our politicians in Washington remain CLUELESS, because they know they can win votes from gullible people who believe their Santa Claus promises about "free" "healthcare" for all, when they're really talking about a free "card" with no MONEY behind it and no doctor to see you for even 2 minutes.

Originally Posted by ilovetv

Mandating that everyone gets an insurance card--either public or private--is not health care. Health care is a physician and other clinicians assessing one's health condition, diagnosing, and treating acute and chronic ailments.

Health care is not the ownership of a card that says somebody else will pay the bills.

The Washington DC politicians are doing nothing to assure that there are enough required residency training positions of new medical school graduates, so that there are actually doctors who can SEE all the people with that shiny new public or private insurance card in their wallets.

Instead, they have passed a 2700-page law containing everything but the kitchen sink, that puts us and our kids and grandkids in trillions of dollars of unfunded liability/debt, without increasing the already too-few required, residency-training positions needed to make even a DENT in the existing shortage of primary-care doctors.

As a Canadian supreme court judge stated a few years ago, "Access to a wait list is not 'healthcare'". And our politicians in Washington remain CLUELESS, because they know they can win votes from gullible people who believe their Santa Claus promises about "free" "healthcare" for all, when they're really talking about a free "card" with no MONEY behind it and no doctor to see you for even 2 minutes.

With healthcare or without healthcare isn't going to change the number of people that get sick and need a doctor's care. People don't get sick or not get sick depending on whether they have insurance.

Originally Posted by janmcn

With healthcare or without healthcare isn't going to change the number of people that get sick and need a doctor's care. People don't get sick or not get sick depending on whether they have insurance.

There will be a substantial amount more of people seeking health advice...who knows what the increase will be. AMA is a bit concerned about it as we already have a shortage of doctors but this only time will tell.

Again, lots of benefits but how do we pay for all of this and keep in mind this law does not address health care costs...depending on how that is handled along with the tort reform, those costs may leap even higher than they are going now.

I strongly suggest to everyone that they visit CBO to see how the cost has gone up on this bill just since it passed and HOW it is to be payed for....remember nobody in congress who voted for it read it first.

Why do we need national health program any way. You either buy health ins. or you pay no pay no treatment. You go buy a car but you have no money do you get the car NO. What will be next car ins. the state does that now. If you cant pay you dont play.

Originally Posted by janmcn

When you get your refund check from your insurance company because of the Affordable Care Act, send it back. Tell them you want no part of any money gained from this blankin' law that the blankin' government is forcing on you.

You are correct that checks are forthcoming....I do caution everyone to read about it...

In South Carolina...

"And Jim Deyling, Blue Cross Blue Shield’s president of private business, said in a statement that “our concern remains that a rebate such as this not only creates a false impression of overpricing, but also reveals the fundamental flaw of the legislation, which is that it does nothing to reduce health care expense for members.”

South Carolina’s largest health insurer issuing rebates | The Post and Courier | Charleston SC, News, Sports, Entertainment

From Arkansas, and I ask you to read the quote please ..

""It was a surprise," says Connie Kadansky, who is self employed. "My insurance agent tells me that my insurance is going to skyrocket. He hates Obamacare. I read the letter and I said to myself, 'So what's wrong with this? This is good.'"

Refund checks from health insurance companies should be in the m - KATV - Breaking News, Weather and Razorback Sports

You have to use common sense and KNOW that health care costs are going to skyrocket for sure. COSTS was what this law was supposed to be about, and what was fed to us all during the campaign in 2008 and this law does not even try to address them !

Yes refunds, but as with the law....you will pay !

also do not forget that those of us who paid all of our working years into these programs are in fact much different than those who get benefits they never ever contributed one dime to get.

When one keeps trying to convey that SS for example is a big government give away seem to forget it is in fact a long term investment we the people made by giving the money to the government before we needed to have it.
And so when we expect to get paid from our invested funds it ain't a federal freebie. Also don't forget the billions the government has taken from the SS fund to use for other things because it was an account with such huge amounts of money in it....doing what it was supposed to do....earn more money for all of us aging that paid in!!!!

Is it OK the government took our money for other than what was intended? Simple yes or no is all that is needed.

And if a bail out of SS is ever needed is it likely the government will be as quick to just turn billions over to it like they did the banks? Of course not.

When you want to talk about freebies how about the over $7 billion per year paid to illegals? How about the welfare roles that most participants are long term illegals?
How about the health care benefits paid to illegals children? How about the school subsidies to support illegals?

These are freebies that the participants not only did not contribute a single dime.....but they are here......ILLEGALLY!!

You want to make examples of "government supplied" funds, please use one that is in fact a freebie....not one that is paid for in advance.

btk

speaking of getting supplemental insurance, let me remind those who support Obamacare that at some point in the future as Obamacare begins to impact facilities and money available and as services of today are reduced or eliminated.....to maintain the same level of care you have today you will have to go to additional supplemental coverages to not give up any care categories you presently have.

And I predict there will be a new level of care providers that will arrive on the scene. A level of care that is not covered by the Obamacare watered down for everybody variety. A level of care that will approximate what you are used to or have today. And to get to this level of provision (that some of us are accustomed to) you will of course need to subscribe to another monthly premium to have that access.

I also predict for those who will live long enough to see it happen and remember....the memory will be how well we had it before we got help from Obamacare.

And lastly anybody who has any knowledge of those companies who have sought to be exempted from Obamcare, which by the way have been approved!!! If it is so good for everybody then why did these companies ask for the waiver? If it is so good why did the government grant the waivers?

And don't insult the rest of us by stating their programs already do more than Obamcare.

btk

Here is ahint......$$$$$$$$$$$$

Originally Posted by billethkid

speaking of getting supplemental insurance, let me remind those who support Obamacare that at some point in the future as Obamacare begins to impact facilities and money available and as services of today are reduced or eliminated.....to maintain the same level of care you have today you will have to go to additional supplemental coverages to not give up any care categories you presently have.

And I predict there will be a new level of care providers that will arrive on the scene. A level of care that is not covered by the Obamacare watered down for everybody variety. A level of care that will approximate what you are used to or have today. And to get to this level of provision (that some of us are accustomed to) you will of course need to subscribe to another monthly premium to have that access.

I also predict for those who will live long enough to see it happen and remember....the memory will be how well we had it before we got help from Obamacare.

And lastly anybody who has any knowledge of those companies who have sought to be exempted from Obamcare, which by the way have been approved!!! If it is so good for everybody then why did these companies ask for the waiver? If it is so good why did the government grant the waivers?

And don't insult the rest of us by stating their programs already do more than Obamcare.

btk

Here is ahint......$$$$$$$$$$$$

"And lastly anybody who has any knowledge of those companies who have sought to be exempted from Obamcare, which by the way have been approved!!! If it is so good for everybody then why did these companies ask for the waiver? If it is so good why did the government grant the waivers?"

In this vein what I am confused about is that the government has just stopped saying how many exemptions have been given (last checked about a week or so ago). They were publishing the numbers and they made their way to the media and that number was growing but now they have just stopped telling how many ! Wonder why ?

Originally Posted by janmcn

With healthcare or without healthcare isn't going to change the number of people that get sick and need a doctor's care. People don't get sick or not get sick depending on whether they have insurance.

The reality being avoided is that the mandates contained in the new healthcare financing law will quickly result in LESS healthcare for the population overall, because Medicaid already pays 40% below cost, as millions more people are being enrolled in it:

"The fact is that the Affordable Care Act, which will add as many as 40 million people onto the Medicaid rolls over the next few years, will deal most private practices a fatal blow if they are forced to accept Medicaid patients without increasing reimbursements to at least Medicare levels.

These stark choices are forced by fiscal reality. For most physicians, Medicare covers costs, and Medicaid pays about 40 percent below cost.

To survive, most physicians, particularly those in smaller practices of 10 or fewer doctors, will have to refuse or severely limit Medicaid patients.

This is hardly a secret to physicians in smaller private practices.....

Here is how the present numbers break down and the heart of the problem:

• Using pediatric care, which proportionately mirrors other specialties and age groups, the average Medicare reimbursement for basic physician’s services is about $76, which covers costs. The average private insurance reimbursement for the same services is over $92, or 21 percent higher, which provides profit. (So the physician gets some take-home pay --my comment --ilovetv) The average Medicaid payment is about $46.50, or 39 percent below Medicare and cost, and 50 percent below private insurance. That money has to be made up by private insurance.

• Two privately insured patients generate $32 over cost, enough to cover the $29.50 loss with some small change left over.

As the numbers dictate, things are already in a tenuous state, and we are still a year and a half away from the mandate and flood of up to 20 million new Medicaid patients hits in 2014.

Going from bad to worse, the CBO has estimated that up to 20 million more people with private insurance may lose it, their employers opting to pay the less costly tax instead, and have to turn to Medicaid....."

If ACA Survives, Many Small Medical Practices Will Fail - Physicians Practice

Originally Posted by ilovetv

The reality being avoided is that the mandates contained in the new healthcare financing law will quickly result in LESS healthcare for the population overall, because Medicaid already pays 40% below cost, as millions more people are being enrolled in it:

"The fact is that the Affordable Care Act, which will add as many as 40 million people onto the Medicaid rolls over the next few years, will deal most private practices a fatal blow if they are forced to accept Medicaid patients without increasing reimbursements to at least Medicare levels.

These stark choices are forced by fiscal reality. For most physicians, Medicare covers costs, and Medicaid pays about 40 percent below cost.

To survive, most physicians, particularly those in smaller practices of 10 or fewer doctors, will have to refuse or severely limit Medicaid patients.

This is hardly a secret to physicians in smaller private practices.....

Here is how the present numbers break down and the heart of the problem:

• Using pediatric care, which proportionately mirrors other specialties and age groups, the average Medicare reimbursement for basic physician’s services is about $76, which covers costs. The average private insurance reimbursement for the same services is over $92, or 21 percent higher, which provides profit. (So the physician gets some take-home pay --my comment --ilovetv) The average Medicaid payment is about $46.50, or 39 percent below Medicare and cost, and 50 percent below private insurance. That money has to be made up by private insurance.

• Two privately insured patients generate $32 over cost, enough to cover the $29.50 loss with some small change left over.

As the numbers dictate, things are already in a tenuous state, and we are still a year and a half away from the mandate and flood of up to 20 million new Medicaid patients hits in 2014.

Going from bad to worse, the CBO has estimated that up to 20 million more people with private insurance may lose it, their employers opting to pay the less costly tax instead, and have to turn to Medicaid....."

If ACA Survives, Many Small Medical Practices Will Fail - Physicians Practice

Do you have any idea how those 40 million people are being treated now and who is paying for it?

the decision making will come down to the old life boat problem. The current life boat is full. To take on more than can be carried will work for not very long, then the boat goes over or sinks.

One can keep talking about the what about the 40 million not covered all day long.
Are you ready to give up what you have to cover them?
Are you prepared to pay more to cover them?
Are you prepared to wait longer to get the care you need?

The above does not suggest in any way to not do something about today's health care deficiencies.

The answer is not just keep giving away more.

The answer is to fix what is wrong with the existing system. Fix or eliminate the KNOWN fraud.
Fix or eliminate the strangle hold of the pharmaceuticals have today.
Provide a different program for the illegals and let it stand alone as that.....health care for those who are not US citizens who are here illegally.

It is either that or as in the Titanic, the lifeboats just simply row away and leave the "uncovered".

btk

Originally Posted by janmcn

Do you have any idea how those 40 million people are being treated now and who is paying for it?

Yes, I do. The patients are being treated:

- in the ER where they cannot be turned away (and rightly so), and where 24-hour facilities and staffing by all specialties on call is the most expensive place of all to treat people;

- by hospitals and doctors who do millions of dollars of charity care every day because a) they care about people and b) it's more cost effective to treat for free than it is to submit the endless billings;

- by teaching hospitals' clinics staffed with manpower of doctors in training, as Medicare/Medicaid were set up long ago to do, with doctors in training working at very low wages in exchange for the government paying for most of their residency training;

- and by city and county health departments designed exactly for indigent people without insurance, and these departments are staffed by the same doctors who can afford to accept Medicaid, and fees to patients are either free or on a sliding scale according to income.

Flawed as all this is, everyone does have access to "healthcare". Unfortunately, many people decide not to GO or apply for help, and they just use the ER as their clinic.