Originally Posted by Sally Jo

Somebody help me understand. Hasn't the money that has been taxed on Capital Gains already been taxed, when it was originally earned?

No, capital gains are "unearned income". Income which magically appears when the investor sits there, does nothing, and watches a successful investment grow. It can't be taxed previously because it never existed previously.

During the HW Bush years taxes on long term capital gains were 28-33%, rates which are similar to the tax on income that wealthy people paid, and still do pay on income they actually WORK for. I guess they thought that was fair in those days. But Bush Jr. supported lowering the rate to 15%, matching the lowest rate in history. Those who say a low rate encourages investment and creates jobs now realize after our experiences with the recession, that lower capital gains rates only increase the national deficit and put extra money in the pockets of the wealthy.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

No, capital gains are "unearned income". Income which magically appears when the investor sits there, does nothing, and watches a successful investment grow. It can't be taxed previously because it never existed previously.

During the HW Bush years taxes on long term capital gains were 28-33%, rates which are similar to the tax on income that wealthy people paid, and still do pay on income they actually WORK for. I guess they thought that was fair in those days. But Bush Jr. supported lowering the rate to 15%, matching the lowest rate in history. Those who say a low rate encourages investment and creates jobs now realize after our experiences with the recession, that lower capital gains rates only increase the national deficit and put extra money in the pockets of the wealthy.

You're misunderstanding the question. YES; if the money invested was originally INCOME it was taxed before it was invested. Then that investment can generate capital gains which is taxable again.

This is what was meant.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

You're misunderstanding the question. YES; if the money invested was originally INCOME it was taxed before it was invested. Then that investment can generate capital gains which is taxable again.

This is what was meant.

Nope. Capital gains are ADDITIONAL income to any previous taxed income. Let's say I earned $1000 taxable dollars in 2012. I invest the remaining $700 in Bain Capital in 2012, which earns, as expected, $7,000,000. My capital gains are $6,999,300. I pay 15% on that figure only, not on the original $700 when I cash out in 2013.

No, capital gains are "unearned income". Income which magically appears when the investor sits there, does nothing,

I just don't like "magically appears" as a description. That just continues to vilify the EARNING of money by investing in companies that "magically" build factories and "magically" hire workers who "magically" show up and produce produces that we "magically" buy and the company then re-invests or returns dividends "magically" to the investor that then has to give 15% of this "magic" to the government that "magically" (and in this case) did nothing to get it.

So no, not magic, it is capitalism!

Now Obama saving the American dream by killing the pipeline and creating 5 or six new agencies plus attacking the "Magically" producing small businesses.

That would be Magic!

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Nope. Capital gains are ADDITIONAL income to any previous taxed income. Let's say I earned $1000 taxable dollars in 2012. I invest the remaining $700 in Bain Capital in 2012, which earns, as expected, $7,000,000. My capital gains are $6,999,300. I pay 15% on that figure only, not on the original $700 when I cash out in 2013.

What she meant is that she's spending money that was already taxed to buy the investment initially.

Let me make it simple for you. I earned $1000. It's taxed and I'm left with $850. I take that $850 an invest it. What it earns now is subject to capital gains taxes. OK?; do you get it?

That's all that was meant by the post in question. You are agreeing with me and arguing with me at the same time. You and my wife would get along.

Originally Posted by notlongnow

I just don't like "magically appears" as a description. That just continues to vilify the EARNING of money by investing in companies that "magically" build factories and "magically" hire workers who "magically" show up and produce produces that we "magically" buy and the company then re-invests or returns dividends "magically" to the investor that then has to give 15% of this "magic" to the government that "magically" (and in this case) did nothing to get it.

So no, not magic, it is capitalism!

Now Obama saving the American dream by killing the pipeline and creating 5 or six new agencies plus attacking the "Magically" producing small businesses.

That would be Magic!

Maybe you don't get my obvious dripping sarcasm. I used "magic" and other sarcastic terms to underscore the incredible irony in our federal tax system. It is the carefully sculpted monument to the influence peddlers, inside and outside of government.

I dearly LOVE capitalism and respect anyone who slaves over their tasks and makes a big profit. Taking 30% of that back seems too steep, unless one is making at least a million dollars a year. But to take only 15% back on profits billionaires make when they DO NOTHING but WATCH their investment is just plain wrong. It GUARANTEES the wealthy and their heirs will become more wealthy, all of which happens without working.

So you probably think I hate Romney because virtually all of his earnings are unearned, and because he will continue to make millions every year in the future - all without working. No, it's ok that he's rich, and I'm ok with that. But there is a great injustice for him to pay 15% on his millions when successful people who work for every dollar have to pay 30%.

Now do you get it?
ps. (get your facts right. The pipeline is not "killed".)

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Maybe you don't get my obvious dripping sarcasm. I used "magic" and other sarcastic terms to underscore the incredible irony in our federal tax system. It is the carefully sculpted monument to the influence peddlers, inside and outside of government.

I dearly LOVE capitalism and respect anyone who slaves over their tasks and makes a big profit. Taking 30% of that back seems too steep, unless one is making at least a million dollars a year. But to take only 15% back on profits billionaires make when they DO NOTHING but WATCH their investment is just plain wrong. It GUARANTEES the wealthy and their heirs will become more wealthy, all of which happens without working.

So you probably think I hate Romney because virtually all of his earnings are unearned, and because he will continue to make millions every year in the future - all without working. No, it's ok that he's rich, and I'm ok with that. But there is a great injustice for him to pay 15% on his millions when successful people who work for every dollar have to pay 30%.

Now do you get it?
ps. (get your facts right. The pipeline is not "killed".)

President newt would make it 0%, he said so in the last debate.

thank you ijusluvit for presenting the facts. Those that do not understand the inequality just don't want to. Itdoesn't fit their political thinking.

Originally Posted by notlongnow

I just don't like "magically appears" as a description. That just continues to vilify the EARNING of money by investing in companies that "magically" build factories and "magically" hire workers who "magically" show up and produce produces that we "magically" buy and the company then re-invests or returns dividends "magically" to the investor that then has to give 15% of this "magic" to the government that "magically" (and in this case) did nothing to get it.

So no, not magic, it is capitalism!

Now Obama saving the American dream by killing the pipeline and creating 5 or six new agencies plus attacking the "Magically" producing small businesses.

That would be Magic!

lets see....killing the pipeline,wrong....creating 5 or 6 new agencies,wrong...and finally attacking small business,again wrong. Wow a perfect score.

Originally Posted by waynet

lets see....killing the pipeline,wrong....creating 5 or 6 new agencies,wrong...and finally attacking small business,again wrong. Wow a perfect score.

The pipeline is still killed. You didn't get the memo?

The pipeline isn't killed - just that 60-day decision thing. In point of fact, they're meeting in Nebraska talking about re-routing the pipeline AWAY from the aquifier (which is what caused the comotion in the first place).

This is where the rubber will hit the road. When the Nebraska issues are sorted out, what happens THEN? If Obama kills Pipeline V2, then you have a much stronger case.

the pipeline is still killed....wrong

Originally Posted by djplong

The pipeline isn't killed - just that 60-day decision thing. In point of fact, they're meeting in Nebraska talking about re-routing the pipeline AWAY from the aquifier (which is what caused the comotion in the first place).

This is where the rubber will hit the road. When the Nebraska issues are sorted out, what happens THEN? If Obama kills Pipeline V2, then you have a much stronger case.

Who's "they"?

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Who's "they"?

I've always wondered that too. Whoever "they" is they sure know a lot about a lot.