Here's what you don't understand. It's not about character assassination, it's about policy assassination. Their policies are BAD for America. But speaking about character assassination, that's something the left almost has a monopoly on. Sarah Palin whether you agree with her politics or not was ripped to shreds along with GW, Joe the Plumber and many other conservatives... and still are to this very day. Even you can't mention George Bush's name without putting alcoholism in (parenthesis) so don't lecture about charter assassination. The Democrats mastered the art of character assassination.

Originally Posted by dklassen

Here's what you don't understand. It's not about character assassination, it's about policy assassination. Their policies are BAD for America. But speaking about character assassination, that's something the left almost has a monopoly on. Sarah Palin whether you agree with her politics or not was ripped to shreds along with GW, Joe the Plumber and many other conservatives... and still are to this very day. Even you can't mention George Bush's name without putting alcoholism in (parenthesis) so don't lecture about charter assassination. The left mastered the art of character assassination.

Perhaps you didn't read my post closely enough. I pointed out that I too had been guilty of this. Please re-read.

It's clear DK, that you and I will never agree on anything. The left is far from holding the monopoly on character assignation. My God, do you remember Bush coming out at McCain during that primary??? Wow, you couldn't get much nastier. And then the swiftboating of John Kerry? All of those allegations proved to be false. And now all of this Obama socialist crap!

See that's where we will never connect DK. You can't admit any failures on the right's part. None! If you re-read my post, my question was... "When did this COUNTRY get so mean-spirited???" Not, when did the right get so mean-spirited.

You're wrong again. I never liked Bush that much and didn't support a good number of his policies.

Originally Posted by dklassen

You're wrong again. I never liked Bush that much and didn't support a good number of his policies.

Hahahah! OK, this is getting silly DK. Are you just not reading the posts or are you just looking for a reason to call me "wrong." I think I'm just going to cut this off here.

Wait a minute here, you just said to me

See that's where we will never connect DK. You can't admit any failures on the right's part

Other than a few things I think GW was largely a failure. So how am I being silly directly addressing an incorrect assumption you made about me?

Originally Posted by dklassen

Wait a minute here, you just said to me



Other than a few things I think GW was largely a failure. So how am I being silly directly addressing an incorrect assumption you made about me?

I find this very interesting. Can you please post why YOU think GW was largely a failure??? I'd be interested.

He was a horrible communicator, he didn't strengthen the party, his immigration policy stunk, boarder security stunk, I didn't like his budget or his stimulus just to name a few. On the other hand I liked his tax cuts, the fact that he kept our country safe for eight years after 9/11, he killed a lot of terrorists, and the economy was pretty strong for most of his two terms. I guess failure maybe too strong a word but I was not generally happy with him. That came mostly in the later years. When it comes to politics I thought he needed to grow a spine and take to back to the libs that were pounding him every single day for eight years. He never did and lost his base.

Originally Posted by dklassen

He was a horrible communicator, he didn't strengthen the party, his immigration policy stunk, boarder security stunk, I didn't like his budget or his stimulus just to name a few. On the other hand I liked his tax cuts, the fact that he kept our country safe for eight years after 9/11, he killed a lot of terrorists, and the economy was pretty strong for most of his two terms. I guess failure maybe too strong a word but I was not generally happy with him. That came mostly in the later years. When it comes to politics I thought he needed to grow a spine take to back to the libs that were pounding him every single day for eight years. He never did.

Thank you. I'm not going into Bush bashing here, I'll just say I agree with all you didn't care for and I also disagree with all you thought he accomplished. Enough said. Old news. But thanks for replying.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Bucco, you've been hell bent on the character assassination of President Obama since day one. I'm quite sure you don't even believe he was born in America. Well, that's your prerogative.

But here's the thing you're reeeeeally wrong on. I'm not a radical. And as stated before, I'm not cynical. And I'm not an extremist. In fact, I'm not even sure what the difference is between a radical and an extremist. I'm a realist. I'm not looking for conspiracy theories around every corner. I don't for one minute think this country is being steered toward socialism or communism. I don't for one minute think anyone wants to "pull the plug on Grandma." This kind of silly rethortic makes my toes curl!

My hope is that when Obama lays out his plans on Wednesday, he will indeed, include such things as allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, boosting competition. (Romney) and some tax credits for businesses (McCain) and especially pay-for-performance. If you don't think our doctors and health care system in general has gotten slovenly and greedy, you're not looking hard enough. However, I'm not going to give up on a Public Option and I will be very disappointed in him if he does. I won't mind if it's delayed and not taken on at this time, but brought up again in the near future. I get it, give and take. But, I do believe that good Health Care should be a right of every American.

I guess my point is that I sincerely feel that President Obama tries to work across party lines and my guess is his final decision will be something from both sides of the aisle. And that's OK. My grip is with the Republicans (and don't fool yourself, they're out there) that will categorically oppose any and everything put out by this Administration. The Republicans haven't been labeled the party of "NO" by accident.

I'm not going to sit here and defend Van Jones. Quite frankly, he could have been the best man for the job, but I personally don't know that. What I can't tolerate is all of this character assassination. It's slimy and insulting to the American public in general. I don't care what side of the aisle does it.

And before you say it, yes, I stand guilty of the same thing. I will take that responsibility for some of my previous posts. I've always been the kind of person that when proven wrong will be the first to admit it, or the first to apologize.

But, lately I've been wondering.... When did this country get so mean-spirited? Maybe that's a question we should debate.

The first thing I will say is that I have NEVER EVER said anything negative about this President's CHARACTER....NEVER !!! I have made it very clear at all times that I oppose and have opposed his entire ideaology and his entire plans for my country which have been evidenced by his past.

I have NEVER EVER brought up on here or anywhere else ANY KIND OF CONPISRACY THEORY or questioned his citizenship...NEVER EVER NOT ONE TIME !!

I certainly have questioned MOST of his relationships (From Rev Wright to Van Jones) as they speak VOLUMES about what he really believes.

I have tried to call attention to the many lies he told during the campaign, ESPECIALLY those about not playing politics, as it is not a matter of opinion but of fact that this is thus far the most political WH in many many years.

I agree, as do most on both sides of the aisle, that there is a problem in health care costs and I will also agree with you that a lot of misinformation is being spread, and ON BOTH SIDES....Example the President constantly saying how many uninsured there are and he is not even close especially when he includes statements about NOT insuring illegals but then including them in his count.

One more thing...you constantly allude to Fox news or commentators from the network. I do not think in all the posts I have made here with sources I have ever used Fox news...I am sure I never quoted a commentator from ANY NETWORK !

And as for character assassination I oppose that also, and without using the tactic you use all the time, but simply bringing up the calls of our President as a drunk....accusations about dope...his intelligence,and that is simply the start. I HAVE NEVER MENTIONED ONE SINGLE THING ABOUT THIS PRESIDENT ON A PERSONAL LEVEL..NOT ONE TIME !

In addition, it is not character assassination when it is true ! If you want a man who is an avowed communist(speaking of Van Jones), and he is...and all the other baggage he carries in any postion in your government then you can make your point about how that is ok, but I cannot. There are others in this administration hidden behind the Czar tag so they never have to face any questioning that are going to be brought out also as time goes on.

I understand your comment saying that the Rep party is the party of NO...I think that saying began during the last administration and refered to the Democrats, however having said that I am against that kind of political game 100%.

What you just do not understand is that there are folks who were not happy with George Bush, but are not filled with hate and did not vote a negative vote in November. Much of what you are referring to as the party of NO is many folks in congress DID NOT AGREE with Bush, and not feel much more free to contest the big massive spending, WHICH BUSH DID ALSO but not even in the same ballpark as this administration !

You see I absolutely am not what you folks call a Bushie...I am also not someone who attacks ANYONE personally....I also have been saying the same thing about this President since before he was a candidate (when you called him an "empty suit). I have not changed my mind, nor has he given me any reason to consider that !

Please...I do not make PERSONAL attacks as you call them. Whatever I have said I welcome your input to show me where I am wrong !

and in real life, during the last year (or so) prior to the election, y'all remember during the height of the Bush bashing mania, there was never a feeling of meanness in America.

Now however, when anything about or by the current administration is either challenged or not blindly accepted, there is a feeling of meanness in America.

I do believe there is a definite mixture of bias and hypocritical tendency in the air.

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

and in real life, during the last year (or so) prior to the election, y'all remember during the height of the Bush bashing mania, there was never a feeling of meanness in America.

Now however, when anything about or by the current administration is either challenged or not blindly accepted, there is a feeling of meanness in America.

I do believe there is a definite mixture of bias and hypocritical tendency in the air.

btk

Actually, the Bush bashing did not stop at the Oval Office....they were after his wife as well on many occassions as well as the two daughters !

To your point BTK.....I am not sure where I heard this but it was today on one of the news interview shows. Someone said...that total disrespect for the Presidency began IMMEDIATELY after the 2000 election and has not stopped.

I still believe the wide gap between parties started with the 2000 election and to this day permeates everything. It certainly was the start of the Sooros money, the Acorns, etc !

I love that lefties are still bashing Bush. How long is that going to fly? The country is steadily going down the tubes and the trillions of dollars being spent is not stopping it. This is not happening under Bush. Also in the weeks that Glenn Beck has been sounding the clarion call on his "czars" no one has disputed one fact he came up with. The White House just wants him to stop calling them "czars". What does that tell you?

Originally Posted by chelsea24

[...snip]...
I'm a realist. I'm not looking for conspiracy theories around every corner. I don't for one minute think this country is being steered toward socialism or communism.
.....Then i suggest that you review some dictionaires to clarify socialism/communism. The American Heritage dictionary defines socialism this way: "Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy." Based on that definition it is my opinion that all of Obama's policies are taking the USA down that path...financial industry, auto industry, health care industry -the majority parts of our economy - all being controlled by a centralized government.
I don't for one minute think anyone wants to "pull the plug on Grandma." This kind of silly rethortic makes my toes curl!
...I agree that no one wants to do that, but the unfortunate fact is that the House policy was developed to provide that care plans would be tightly controlled; the men who developed the policy were published as saying that health care should be carefully distributed to the parts of the population that can best benefit the population as opposed to those who are a drain on the population; such information is enough to cause those who are seen as a drain on the population to fear for their lives. The House policy lacked specifics and left too much room for possibilities.

My hope is that when Obama lays out his plans on Wednesday, he will indeed, include such things as allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, boosting competition. (Romney) and some tax credits for businesses (McCain) and especially pay-for-performance.
...Such is the hope of many; but Pres. Obama no longer inspires me to hope for the good that he campaigned for; I now fear his proposals rather than hope for them.

If you don't think our doctors and health care system in general has gotten slovenly and greedy, you're not looking hard enough. However, I'm not going to give up on a Public Option and I will be very disappointed in him if he does. I won't mind if it's delayed and not taken on at this time, but brought up again in the near future. I get it, give and take.
...A Public Option owned and distributed by the government should never be brought up again! Such an option clearly eliminates the right of our citizens to one of our founding principles - the right to free enterprise. This option needs LOTS of rework that will provide for private enterprise participating with public protection. Let the gov't develop a minimum coverage policy that must be distributed by private enterprise.

But, I do believe that good Health Care should be a right of every American.
...We disagree. Good health care should be available to every American not a right of every American. Clinics and emergency rooms already meet that goal...and gov't $$ could be distributed to improve that avaliability. The infrastructure is already in place for that and does not require the creation of another federal bureaucracy.

I guess my point is that I sincerely feel that President Obama tries to work across party lines
...We disagree again. I do not feel that he has encouraged the two parties to work together. I cannot recall one decision where he has relied on input from the loyal opposition. Further, he has done nothing to curtail the likes of Nancy Pelosi and other members of his party from making their disparaging remarks. My opinion their is that he is letting them throw the snowballs and enjoying every toss. He has failed to behave as a professional individual much less a president by allowing the playground bullying to exist.

and my guess is his final decision will be something from both sides of the aisle. And that's OK. My grip is with the Republicans (and don't fool yourself, they're out there) that will categorically oppose any and everything put out by this Administration. The Republicans haven't been labeled the party of "NO" by accident.
...I believe we could have avoided the tea parties and the town meetings of this summer if the President had taken ownership of a health care policy from the git-go and then assigned it to a bi-partisan group for fine tuning. But he chose to toss it out to individual committees that developed four policies - not at all consistent with each other. However, I must say that as a member of the conservative side of politics, I thoroughly enjoyed the name-calling and disparagement that made fools of the participants.
...I must also agree with Bucco where he states "I understand your comment saying that the Rep party is the party of NO...I think that saying began during the last administration and refered to the Democrats"... That label has been around for a while - it is just the Republicans turn to behave like a speed bump - but you know, sometimes speed bumps are a good thing.

I'm not going to sit here and defend Van Jones. Quite frankly, he could have been the best man for the job, but I personally don't know that. What I can't tolerate is all of this character assassination. It's slimy and insulting to the American public in general. I don't care what side of the aisle does it.
...and here I agree with

..snip..

But, lately I've been wondering.... When did this country get so mean-spirited? Maybe that's a question we should debate.
...I cannot speak for others, but I can sure show my mean streak when someone tries to take away the things that I have worked my a** off for years to attain. I traded in my registration as a Democrat for one of the Republican pursuasion when I began to see my $$ redirected to policies I could not support because they benefitted individuals who would not take the same initiatives that I did when they were presented to me as opportunities.

Thanks for your post; it has given me a chance to get a lot off my chest. I could never have voted for Obama for President, but I could not help but hope that he would honor his campaign promises - especially the one about transparency. I am still hoping, but every day I am more disappointed in his performance.

In my book Obama is still a community organizer who thinks that the rich do not deserve what they have and that he must take it away from them and give it to someone who doesn't have. Sorry, I don't buy it - not a dollar's worth. You may wonder how we got to be 'mean-spirited' but I wonder when we got away from the promise that if we worked hard and lived a good life we would be rewarded. Taking from me and giving to another is not what I worked for all of my life...that is not my definition of reward.

Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians

[leaving the soap box now - need to quench my thirst after all that 'speaking'!

Nicely done njbchbum. I would only quibble on the term socialist. The present administration is really by definition going down a fascist path. Socialism is where the government owns everything and dictates who gets what. Fascism is where businesses are ostensibly owned by the private sector but controlled by the government; which is closer to the scenario that is unfolding in our country.

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Thanks for your post; it has given me a chance to get a lot off my chest. I could never have voted for Obama for President, but I could not help but hope that he would honor his campaign promises - especially the one about transparency. I am still hoping, but every day I am more disappointed in his performance.

In my book Obama is still a community organizer who thinks that the rich do not deserve what they have and that he must take it away from them and give it to someone who doesn't have. Sorry, I don't buy it - not a dollar's worth. You may wonder how we got to be 'mean-spirited' but I wonder when we got away from the promise that if we worked hard and lived a good life we would be rewarded. Taking from me and giving to another is not what I worked for all of my life...that is not my definition of reward.

Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians

[leaving the soap box now - need to quench my thirst after all that 'speaking'!

Very well said. Of course, I completely disagree with everything you said, but I respect your right to say it. Although I seem to be often called a "leftie" I actually consider myself an Independant. I did vote for Reagan and still admire him. My husband, on the other hand, who was always a Republican, turned in his card the minute McCain named Sarah Palin as his running mate.

I'm still squarely behind this President. You would wonder, by this particular forum, how he got elected at all! Yet, the majority of American people did vote for him. And, as of today, it's not a vote I'm ashamed of.

I know you're convinced that someone is trying to take your toys away and give them to others, less fortunate. OMG! What a thought! At any rate, that's not what I'm seeing at all. hmmmm..... guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But, don't put your soapbox away ... even though the townhall meetings are starting to fizzle. From your vantage point, I'm sure you'll be needing it for at least the next 3 years if not more.