Based on the apparent strong feelings on both sides of the political aisle evident in postings in this forum, my curiosity is piqued.

Who are you going to vote for in the coming fall elections?

More importantly, how will you go about making your decision on which candidates to put your 'X' in front of?

I'll start by giving you my answer and how I arrived at my decision. I will vote for who I think the best qualified person is who is not currently a member of the U.S. Congress. Their party affiliation will make no difference to me because I can observe no difference in the conduct of either the conservatives or the liberals in the last decade or so. Actually, if one of the candidates is an independent, I would be drawn to strongly consider his/her candidacy. I've made the mistake of considering what candidates have said more than what they have done and how they have legislated in the past. I refuse to make that mistake again. None of the current incumbents can make an argument that is acceptable to me that they have earned my vote by attempting to govern responsibly--the results are that they have not. None of them has earned the right to my vote to return them to Washington to continue to legislate as they have for however long they have been there.

Now, who will you vote for? More importantly...why?

I will provide only the following forewarning: if you believe that your current representatives in Congress are really OK and represent your wishes, but that the problem is with the other 532 members of the Congress elected by others, then the result will be more of the same. If everyone voted that way, something like 95% of the incumbents would be returned for another term in office. Only those who retire, die or are convicted and sent to jail wouldn't be re-elected.

VK, I agree, both parties are a mess. I will be looking for candidates that are conservative and believe in the constitution. I'm looking for someone who wants smaller government. I want someone who will stand his ground and not cave. Regardless of what you may think I have never voted a "straight" ticket. I doubt if I will start now.

Voting should not be an emotional thing. To blanketly say they are all bad is not an approach I would take. That is silly and purely emotional.

I plan to review their actual voting record before I select a candidate. A smart informed person seeing what is going on today will vote for fiscal conservatives to save our Country.

It is the objective of sending a clear message the tolerance of business as usual is being canceled.

Anyway the worst candidate could be no worse than any incumbent who is or has been fleecing we the people or just going along because...........

the objective is: RE-ELECT NO ONE.

btk

Right now my thinking is that any politician who is voting for Obama's "Health Care Bill" is intent on restricting the freedoms that every American enjoys and plunging the country into an unmanageable debt that will hamper the future prosperity of our country and our position in the world for decades. I will vote against anyone supporting this bill and donate to candidates opposing it, incumbent or not, and hope the vast majority of freedom loving American's do the same.

<boggle>

The freedoms that every American enjoys????

Go ahead - TRY to see a doctor out of your network. IF you have health insurance to begin with. Unless you're on Medicare/Medicaid where you DO have choice...

Go ahead - TRY to get anything other than emergency care if you're uninsured.

Go ahead - TRY and get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition.

What freedoms are you referring to?

djplong, regarding RichieLion's post. I am by no means speaking for him. But, your response "The freedoms that every American enjoys????...What freedoms are you referring to?" struck something inside of me that demands I reply.

As a young 20-something, I lived south of Daytona Beach, FL. I had NO health insurance. I cleaned houses to put myself through college. I voted. I volunteered to read to children in our public schools and was active in a church that feed the indigent and homeless in the 1980s. Eventually, I was a reporter and tried my best to fear God and honor man and to be fair and accurate in my reporting and in my life.

If I was sick, I went to a doctor, explained my situation and paid cash. Like every American can, if they wish, regardless of income, I took advantage of state run health departments for my female exams. Using it for my primary care physician for years.

Sometimes, when my pride didn't get in the way, I used the generous help of the doctors wives I cleaned for to help me get medical attention through their husbands. I made out the best way I could with my upbringing screaming in my ears and heart to not go in debt, work hard and pay your own way.

I now have insurance that allows me to use out-of-network physicians if I wish. I just have to pay an extra co-pay. Why would I want to? They have worked with me to find an in-network physician and even assisted signing up physicians into the network.

You know as well as I do, emergency rooms don't turn people away. There are many state run programs and charity programs to help people without insurance. There are definitely changes that need to be made in our system. One of them being pre-exisiting conditions.

But if you want to know what freedoms American's enjoy, ask people in China, Cuba, Vietnam. Since they can't speak, ask me I'll tell you what freedoms we enjoy.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

djplong, regarding RichieLion's post. I am by no means speaking for him. But, your response "The freedoms that every American enjoys????...What freedoms are you referring to?" struck something inside of me that demands I reply.

As a young 20-something, I lived south of Daytona Beach, FL. I had NO health insurance. I cleaned houses to put myself through college. I voted. I volunteered to read to children in our public schools and was active in a church that feed the indigent and homeless in the 1980s. Eventually, I was a reporter and tried my best to fear God and honor man and to be fair and accurate in my reporting and in my life.

If I was sick, I went to a doctor, explained my situation and paid cash. Like every American can, if they wish, regardless of income, I took advantage of state run health departments for my female exams. Using it for my primary care physician for years.

Sometimes, when my pride didn't get in the way, I used the generous help of the doctors wives I cleaned for to help me get medical attention through their husbands. I made out the best way I could with my upbringing screaming in my ears and heart to not go in debt, work hard and pay your own way.

I now have insurance that allows me to use out-of-network physicians if I wish. I just have to pay an extra co-pay. Why would I want to? They have worked with me to find an in-network physician and even assisted signing up physicians into the network.

You know as well as I do, emergency rooms don't turn people away. There are many state run programs and charity programs to help people without insurance. There are definitely changes that need to be made in our system. One of them being pre-exisiting conditions.

But if you want to know what freedoms American's enjoy, ask people in China, Cuba, Vietnam. Since they can't speak, ask me I'll tell you what freedoms we enjoy.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

What you say makes all the sense in the world.

This is the best post i have seen.

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

djplong, regarding RichieLion's post. I am by no means speaking for him. But, your response "The freedoms that every American enjoys????...What freedoms are you referring to?" struck something inside of me that demands I reply.

As a young 20-something, I lived south of Daytona Beach, FL. I had NO health insurance. I cleaned houses to put myself through college. I voted. I volunteered to read to children in our public schools and was active in a church that feed the indigent and homeless in the 1980s. Eventually, I was a reporter and tried my best to fear God and honor man and to be fair and accurate in my reporting and in my life.

If I was sick, I went to a doctor, explained my situation and paid cash. Like every American can, if they wish, regardless of income, I took advantage of state run health departments for my female exams. Using it for my primary care physician for years.

Sometimes, when my pride didn't get in the way, I used the generous help of the doctors wives I cleaned for to help me get medical attention through their husbands. I made out the best way I could with my upbringing screaming in my ears and heart to not go in debt, work hard and pay your own way.

I now have insurance that allows me to use out-of-network physicians if I wish. I just have to pay an extra co-pay. Why would I want to? They have worked with me to find an in-network physician and even assisted signing up physicians into the network.

You know as well as I do, emergency rooms don't turn people away. There are many state run programs and charity programs to help people without insurance. There are definitely changes that need to be made in our system. One of them being pre-exisiting conditions.

But if you want to know what freedoms American's enjoy, ask people in China, Cuba, Vietnam. Since they can't speak, ask me I'll tell you what freedoms we enjoy.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

WOW!! All I can say is: Outstanding Post!!!!!!!!!!

No need to quote the Constitution at me - I'm VERY well versed in it. If you put a gun to my head and wanted me to name a personal "hero", I'd respond with Thomas Jefferson and I'm glad that John Adams is finally getting his historical due.

You said you paid your own way in the 1980s. You certainly couldn't do that now. If you were in the same situation now as back then, I don't think you would have gotten those exams.

Around that time, my ex-wife and I had to come up with $10/mo for her birth control - as an example. It boggles my mind that my 22-year-old daughter has to pay several times that price now. The CPI says it should cost around $20/mo. But inflation, when it comes to medicine just doesn't follow the CPI in this country.

A night in the emergency room in Montreal 7 years ago had a list price of $500 (of which I had to pay $50). The same services in the hospital here in New Hampshire are more than 5 times that.

Now, if you want to argue that the bill slithering it's way through Congress is unconstitutional, well, you have an argument there. But I had some eye-opening experiences while working for a hospital (back room operations - in what you now call "IT" we called "MIS" back then).

Yes, I will be right up front and admit that I have a hard time reconciling my "you have a right to make as good a living as possible" attitude with my "sick people shouldn't be considered a growth industry" feelings. The two often clash.

Originally Posted by djplong

No need to quote the Constitution at me - I'm VERY well versed in it. If you put a gun to my head and wanted me to name a personal "hero", I'd respond with Thomas Jefferson and I'm glad that John Adams is finally getting his historical due.

You said you paid your own way in the 1980s. You certainly couldn't do that now. If you were in the same situation now as back then, I don't think you would have gotten those exams.

Around that time, my ex-wife and I had to come up with $10/mo for her birth control - as an example. It boggles my mind that my 22-year-old daughter has to pay several times that price now. The CPI says it should cost around $20/mo. But inflation, when it comes to medicine just doesn't follow the CPI in this country.

A night in the emergency room in Montreal 7 years ago had a list price of $500 (of which I had to pay $50). The same services in the hospital here in New Hampshire are more than 5 times that.

Now, if you want to argue that the bill slithering it's way through Congress is unconstitutional, well, you have an argument there. But I had some eye-opening experiences while working for a hospital (back room operations - in what you now call "IT" we called "MIS" back then).

Yes, I will be right up front and admit that I have a hard time reconciling my "you have a right to make as good a living as possible" attitude with my "sick people shouldn't be considered a growth industry" feelings. The two often clash.

Are you suggesting that it is okay with you that those of us who have taken care of ourselves all our lives must now agree to pay for those who have not.

Exactly Cashman.

The left thinks that the ones who work hard and sacrifice should also put the lazy and unambitious on our backs, too. If you keep beating the industrious down with the whip , they may smarten up and slack-off. Then where will the funds (taxes) come from?
Take the incentives away and the best and brightest will not go into medicine. Many doctors are already threatening to stop practicing.
If the best and brightest in this country "Go Gault", who is going to support the lay a bouts?

Cashman: Not at all. However, there are a lot of things to keep in mind.

That which we could afford in the 1980s has become unaffordable (the same is true for college educations).

Why isn't there an outcry over the same procedures costing 5x as much here in the U.S. as in a first-rate hospital in Canada? the closest we've come is the "we should be able to import cheaper meds from Canada" debate that seems to have faded over the last couple of years.

My first question is WHY do we pay the MOST - and, most importantly NOT GET THE MOST for what we're paying for?

Let's be honest here. If you were going to buy a TV for $500 and the SAME MODEL was LEGALLY priced in the next town for $100, wouldn't you go there? Wouldn't you demand to know why the local company was charging 5x the price? Or would you ignore it just so long as your employer's TV plan meant you only paid $25, regardless of what it cost THEM?

We have a *huge* cost problem in this country. I've heard estimates that say we could cover ALL the uninsured with the profits of the health insurance companies. I'm sorry - but you just can't justify a 39% increase in premiums when you PROFITS are up 20%! This is what I meant by the whole "sick people are a growth industry" thing earlier.

One area I can agree wholeheartedly with you is that you're damn right I'd be mad if a drunk was in front of me in line for a new liver if I needed one - you have to go back more than 10 years to make the count of total drinks I've had be more than the fingers on one hand.

The Democrats seem to be approaching this incorrectly form one side - a political dealmaker's paradise to try and solve the problem from the 'coverage' end.

Meanwhile, the Republicans are approaching it form the other side saying "if we protect the insurance companies, maybe they'll be nice to us and lower costs".

I don't think either way will work.

Maybe a "Truth In Benefits" law exposing what companies pay for insurance would help. Something that was on your paycheck every week or month. Of course, the insurance companies don't want that, citing "confidentiality" concerns. They don't want companies to know what kind of deals they work.

And on top of that, NONE of this deals with the American "Doctors Are God And Can Do Everything And Should Be Perfect Lest They Be Sued" attitude that so many have.

djplong, help me find something out I've been trying to look into. Where did you get the information that insurance companies' profits are up 20 percent? I'm really trying to educate myself on the whole healthcare issue. Your response is appreciated.

Originally Posted by djplong

Cashman: Not at all. However, there are a lot of things to keep in mind.

That which we could afford in the 1980s has become unaffordable (the same is true for college educations).

Why isn't there an outcry over the same procedures costing 5x as much here in the U.S. as in a first-rate hospital in Canada? the closest we've come is the "we should be able to import cheaper meds from Canada" debate that seems to have faded over the last couple of years.

My first question is WHY do we pay the MOST - and, most importantly NOT GET THE MOST for what we're paying for?

Let's be honest here. If you were going to buy a TV for $500 and the SAME MODEL was LEGALLY priced in the next town for $100, wouldn't you go there? Wouldn't you demand to know why the local company was charging 5x the price? Or would you ignore it just so long as your employer's TV plan meant you only paid $25, regardless of what it cost THEM?

We have a *huge* cost problem in this country. I've heard estimates that say we could cover ALL the uninsured with the profits of the health insurance companies. I'm sorry - but you just can't justify a 39% increase in premiums when you PROFITS are up 20%! This is what I meant by the whole "sick people are a growth industry" thing earlier.

One area I can agree wholeheartedly with you is that you're damn right I'd be mad if a drunk was in front of me in line for a new liver if I needed one - you have to go back more than 10 years to make the count of total drinks I've had be more than the fingers on one hand.

The Democrats seem to be approaching this incorrectly form one side - a political dealmaker's paradise to try and solve the problem from the 'coverage' end.

Meanwhile, the Republicans are approaching it form the other side saying "if we protect the insurance companies, maybe they'll be nice to us and lower costs".

I don't think either way will work.

Maybe a "Truth In Benefits" law exposing what companies pay for insurance would help. Something that was on your paycheck every week or month. Of course, the insurance companies don't want that, citing "confidentiality" concerns. They don't want companies to know what kind of deals they work.

And on top of that, NONE of this deals with the American "Doctors Are God And Can Do Everything And Should Be Perfect Lest They Be Sued" attitude that so many have.

If you cannot afford it you either do without it or you work until you can affored it.

If you cannot earn enough to afford it then you go to school until you can or just forget it.

Healthcare is available to everyone in the USA whether here legally or not so this cost does not apply here.