Originally Posted by Peachie

....and four more years of a Democratic controlled Senate and Congress which is really the tail that wags the dog. Barrack introduced Joe Biden as the next president of the USA and then corrected it to vice president but I think we know who will run that show. Barrack does not have the experience to hit the floor running and he has no time period in which to learn, he will be president, if elected. Am I the only one who wants Obama/McCain to debate and start today?

(Benj, that Lord Obama is a total turnoff for me, he has a name let's use it and discuss the issues on the table.)

Hey peachie I quit using LORD OBAMA some time ago. One of the libs said "i dont use MCBUSH you shouldn't use LORD OBAMA I stopped as to not cloud my brilliant and witty posts by turning off people .
Did you post to chels about MCBUSH??? Benj

I, personally, am looking at the candidates we are discussing and not President Bush. But as long as you brought it up, I don't like name calling.

So peachie,

Is calling McCain McBush name calling? Benj

OK, Benj. You and I will stop using McBush and Lord Obama. It's agreed. We'll just debate on our "brilliant and witty" posts, as you put it. ;D

Originally Posted by chelsea24

OK, Benj. You and I will stop using McCain and Lord Obama. It's agreed. We'll just debate on our "brilliant and witty" posts, as you put it. ;D

Chels I hope you ment McBush and if so thanks and I agree.

Cassie,

What is sexist and disgustful is dragging a 17 year old young ladies private life into a campaign and deciding by yourself all the issues surrounding her life and personal business. Benj

Thanks Benj, I changed it! :bigthumbsup:

Feel better, Benj? I do ;D. We all sound even more brilliant without that riffraff. :bigthumbsup:

Well, this started as "Why Joe Biden?"

The answer to that is simple and obvious. Sen. Biden is a mainstay in the Democratic Party (36 years as a senator from Delaware) and provides two key qualities: 1) he is believed to be able to draw the blue-collar rust-belt vote away from Sen. McCain, and 2) is ready to accept VP as his "swan song" from a Delaware elective office, making way for his son, the current Attorney General of Delaware to seek and hopefully easily acquire the "family" senatorial seat.

Sen. Biden has as much of a role and a kinship to Sen. Obama's camp as Sen. Johnson did in Sen. (later President) Kennedy's. Biden, like Johnson, is considered a "political necessity" during the campaign - an that's the end of the line for him after that.

For the voters, politics can be a clash of ideals and opinions. For the professional politicians, it is a business, and business partnerships and mergers occur only for the classical business reasons: 1) get rid of a competitor; and 2) make profit (votes). Just look at the "business" of both campaigns without idealistic rose-colored glasses - it's not pretty and sure isn't idealistic.

I'm not excluding the Republican Party from applying business tactics to politics. Both sides follow these "rules," hoping the customer (voter) is too dumb or blind to notice.

Originally Posted by benj

Chels I hope you ment McBush and if so thanks and I agree.

Cassie,

What is sexist and disgustful is dragging a 17 year old young ladies private life into a campaign and deciding by yourself all the issues surrounding her life and personal business. Benj

You know I had/have concerns and still do!!

I am allowed to have those concerns....but this isn't even the right post for this discussion...but I believe you have already told how WRONG I was in the other posting about this....

My opinions are not wrong....and I have NEVER said this is why I am not voting for McCain/PAlin....if you go and look at the posting I made "concerns as a mom" then you would see that I was not doing as you claim I am ..........

I believe that in this forum we are ALOUD to speak our minds and give our opinions....that is what I did....

Isn't that what our admins allow us to do??

Originally Posted by chelsea24

I agree with Cassie. We are not running for office. I'm a Catholic and I am completely Pro-Choice. It is none of your business.

What I really don't like is the message this unwed pregnant seventeen year old sends to the young girls of this country. Very accepting parents and a gunshot wedding great! Now watch the rise in unmarried teen pregnancies. Can you just imagine if this was Obama's daughter! :yikes:

I guess it's Country First, Condoms Second (or not at all if it was up to Sarah Palin.)

The religion of a candidate should not be a matter of political concern. Whether a politician is pro-death (as opposed to pro-life) or not, and whether that position is contrary to the politican's stated association with a religious entity (in this case, Catholicism) should solely be among the politician, his/her religious counselor/leader, and God (presuming that being religious means in believing there is a God).

Bluntly, the Roman Catholic Church has already addressed the Church's position on the subject.

... The Church's ethical opinion with regard to divorce and procured abortion is unambivalent and known to all: these are grave sins which, to a different extent and taking into account the evaluation of subjective responsibility, harm the dignity of the human person, involve a profound injustice in human and social relations and offend God himself, Guarantor of the conjugal covenant and the Author of life. ... excerpt from the Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to Participants in an International Congress Organized by the John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family,Clementine Hall, Saturday, 5 April 2008 (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...o-gpii_en.html)

SteveZ, you said you are a father of daughters. I have a question, if you care to answer it. If God Forbid, your daughter was raped or there was a case of incest from strange Uncle Louie, would you want her to have the baby?

I really wouldn't be asking if you had not referred to Pro-Choice as Pro-death.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

SteveZ, you said you are a father of daughters. I have a question, if you care to answer it. If God Forbid, your daughter was raped or there was a case of incest from strange Uncle Louie, would you want her to have the baby?

I really wouldn't be asking if you had not referred to Pro-Choice as Pro-death.

I wish I had a dime for every time my spouse and I, and my daughters, talked about this issue and situations which match your hypothetical. That new Maserati woulds already be on order....

Whenever someone is the victim of a crime or injustice, they suffer. The suffering may be physical, psychological or both, but the suffering is real.

Following your hypothetical, "strange Uncle Louie" would receive a prison term or incarceration at an institution for the criminally insane. He would not be put to death, nor would society condone his execution by any family member.

If during the criminal act, "Louie" sliced off a daughter's limb or other body part, that would be part of the suffering of the victim, but society would not amputate any of "Louie's" limbs in retaliation.

The daughter, if pregnant, would find herself akin to someone harmed. However, retaliating on the unborn child (it's not a mass of jello, but a life!) serves no moral or ethical purpose - "Louie" is not affected at all, and no "justice" is served! It's a third party with no voice in the matter and no means of self-protection who would now bear the worst.

For the daughter, having the baby would be a necessity for her to maintain her humanity. Does she have the free will to abort? Yes, as God has given her as part of that humanity the ability to exercise free will. However, exercising free will does not make an action right, as wrong actions (just like "Louie"s) result from exercising free will as well. Knowing the difference is where the teachings of one's religion and family values come into play.

Would it be a burden - Yes.

Would it be "embarrassing" - depends on the character of the people around you.

Would it mean putting life somewhat on-hold, such as school or career - undoubtedly, but the same is true for most rehabilitation, physical and psychological.

Would the family find itself with having to support the daughter in ways never expected - sure, but that happens with being a family as life never works to a programmed script.

Would the child be adopted outside the family - most likely, as the "waiting list" for infants in the US by desirous families is staggeringly long and the "supply" is very limited.

That's what we've discussed as a family. That's the beliefs we hold and why. The alternative is to say one is against capital punishment, except when the victim of a crime declares a third party as being vicariously liable for the act of another, and the third party doesn't even get an opportunity to defend him/herself in any way.

You don't make the victim whole by killing an innocent.

Living up to the beliefs is where it gets tough, but we have our faith and ourselves to lean on.


Epilogue - Life is not fair, but we believe...

SteveZ, We agree to disagree. But I thank you for your thoughtful answer. It sounds like you have a wonderful family and I hope you do get that Maserati you want one day. :bigthumbsup:

Am I the only one who wants Obama/McCain to debate and start today?
__________________________________________________ ______________________

No...I am really ready and looking forward to them

Steve Z

I am speechless .

that was a perfect answer to a difficult question. And so clearly shows the difference between a liberal and conservative point of view. I hope our country is not going down that path. Benj