Originally Posted by ijusluvit

I disagree that we are 'well beyond stimulating what is wrong". Again, my glass is half-full. You are open-minded enough to recognize the absolute necessity of starting the strong stimulus programs under Bush. The economic logic and principles of that are still valid. THE MONEY MUST COME FROM SOMEWHERE. Don't jump down my throat, but the deficit is relative. We have been in worse shape at other times in our history. Look at the impact of the land wars we are finally drawing down from. We can continue as we are with slow job and economic growth and a frozen deficit and taxes as the Republicans have dictated. Yes, the Republicans. But if Obama opponents, including Romney, say this is "disasterous', the ONLY alternative is to unfreeze the deficit and taxes.
I don't think the situation is 'disasterous'. But I do think the human cost of 8% unemployment is a greater negative influence on our collective well-being than whatever negative effects can result from continuing stimulus spending. Of course, I also favor raising most of the stimulus funding through increased taxation, rather than increasing the deficit. You might disagree, and prefer to leave things as they are, accepting the slow but steady recovery we've experienced for at least two years. Maybe that's really a good idea, but if you adopt it you have to stop all the hand-wringing about the President's failures, the unemployment 'disaster' etc.

I added a PS to my last post which I hope you will read. I noticed this post while I was adding it so I am pretty sure you have not read it.

It is nice to view from a glass half full....but I suppose I am more of a realist. I have not seen the slow and steady recovery you refer to. I hope you will consider reading the depth of our unemployment situation....In my opinion there is a deepening of the recession...while certain aspects of the economy will at times show signs of life.

My hand wringing, again in my opinion, is justified...not because he is Barrack Obama...not because he is a Democrat. He had failed in leadership which is what we need...he continues, and I am assuming you agree based on your post, to think we can continue to spend our way out of this when it did not work the last time and with a deficit that amazingly is now at TRILLIONs, the future looks bleak to me. I sure wish I saw those signs of a slow and steady recovery but I see just the opposite.

I need to go but want to end with a point of agreement, sort of We need a complete revision of the tax code and I really was cheering this President on and on loudly when he appointed the blue ribbon committee to look at it and make suggestions. BUT, as always it did not fit into his political plan thus it was pushed aside and ignored. I know you wont agree with my comment on WHY he ignored his own committee and certainly welcome reading your take on that situation, but the tax code needs to be reworked and we need to stop the rich versus poor conversations which are really tearing us all apart. The decisions to be made are difficult for sure.

Originally Posted by Bucco

I added a PS to my last post which I hope you will read. I noticed this post while I was adding it so I am pretty sure you have not read it.

It is nice to view from a glass half full....but I suppose I am more of a realist. I have not seen the slow and steady recovery you refer to. I hope you will consider reading the depth of our unemployment situation....In my opinion there is a deepening of the recession...while certain aspects of the economy will at times show signs of life.

My hand wringing, again in my opinion, is justified...not because he is Barrack Obama...not because he is a Democrat. He had failed in leadership which is what we need...he continues, and I am assuming you agree based on your post, to think we can continue to spend our way out of this when it did not work the last time and with a deficit that amazingly is now at TRILLIONs, the future looks bleak to me. I sure wish I saw those signs of a slow and steady recovery but I see just the opposite.

I need to go but want to end with a point of agreement, sort of We need a complete revision of the tax code and I really was cheering this President on and on loudly when he appointed the blue ribbon committee to look at it and make suggestions. BUT, as always it did not fit into his political plan thus it was pushed aside and ignored. I know you wont agree with my comment on WHY he ignored his own committee and certainly welcome reading your take on that situation, but the tax code needs to be reworked and we need to stop the rich versus poor conversations which are really tearing us all apart. The decisions to be made are difficult for sure.

OK, when you get back maybe we can get on an 'agreement' roll. The heck with a blue-ribbon committee. How about if you outline the basic tenets of your suggested revised US tax code? I've listed mine in a previous post and I'd like to see how they compare to yours.

On your 'PS' Bucco:

It's not about Obama's leadership ability. The continued, total Republican block of anything he has proposed is unprecedented in our history.
I am beginning to be intrigued by the idea that, when the election posturing is over, Obama could be more successful as a lame duck than he is now.

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Originally Posted by ijusluvit

snip
I am beginning to be intrigued by the idea that, when the election posturing is over, Obama could be more successful as a lame duck than he is now.

isn't that what happened with bill clinton? and didn't he have to sit down with the republican leadership to negotiate and compromise - welfare reform comes to mind. do you think obama could find it in his soul to sit down with the opposition to negotiate and compromise? he might have changed his mind about the emotionally and politically charged issue of gay marriage, but i just can't see that he could evolve to that level.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

On your 'PS' Bucco:

It's not about Obama's leadership ability. The continued, total Republican block of anything he has proposed is unprecedented in our history.
I am beginning to be intrigued by the idea that, when the election posturing is over, Obama could be more successful as a lame duck than he is now.

First excuse me if this is not clear as I am not writing in normal conditions right now as my days schedule has been changed

Here is where we will differ. First allow me to say and not sure if you agree or not...BOTH parties are just plain terrible in how they handle the nations work...if you are simply honed in on Republicans then we will have a problem. I know of over 30 bills that would create jobs that were passed in the Republican house and table immediately with no discussion or allowing them to be discussed by Harry Reid. I know that Reid also will not allow discussion of a ..to me a no brainer...bill to stop the illegal immigrant scam on our tax money (we are talking Billions) because of the political timing. I also know of the meeting that Obama just walked out of and never ever even called the participants when a bi partisan group met with him to solve economic issues (this was about 2 years ago)...never even called them back just said that is not what I want and left.

Knowing what I just said to be FACTUAL, it will be difficult for me to think of Obama as a leader in anyway...nor to blame simply the Republicans for the stalemate. It seems that those who support Obama simply will discuss ONLY and nothing else but the house, and they probably can make a good case but ignoring the senate is not doing due diligence in anyway at all.

A good read is John Stossel's "No They Can't . Clearly all of this haggling going on about party claims is plain bupkus. Voters need to change their emphasis to one of collaboration making demands from government for smaller government, more emphasis on innovation incentives for the private sector lower taxes, less regulation, etc. This pounding going on between parties is making us all losers.

"but i just can't see that he could evolve to that level."

I thought the conservatve Reactionary Republican did not believe in Evolution. Wasn't the Earth created 5,500 years ago with dinosaurs and Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden together? Oh my, if that isn't true, Sarah Palin would be W R O N G and she never could be wrong about anything.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

OK, when you get back maybe we can get on an 'agreement' roll. The heck with a blue-ribbon committee. How about if you outline the basic tenets of your suggested revised US tax code? I've listed mine in a previous post and I'd like to see how they compare to yours.

I did post ONE response to you and hope you will respond to that as that is what makes me what I am in regards to the current administration.

On the tax code, lets start small and simple and first of all allow me to correct myself. I said that Obama did not embrace any of those items in his blue ribbon committee and just read something from April 2011 where he said he was ready to do so, but he never did and thus my distrust of what he says totally !

But....two things they recommended which we can discuss without too much rankle, I think is as follows.

Raise the social security age

Eliminate the home deduction tax break

Also their report advocates a lot of things that will cut well into entitlements of all kinds.

If you need a link to the report, http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/site...h12_1_2010.pdf

But this is really tough to discuss in this format. I would say that I would really like to see open discussion and this time actually do it...on CSPAN if you will of the leaders of congress and the new President, talking through items that they see as insuring this country can grow and not get caught up in thier own shorts. It will not satisfy either party and both have to give, and again I sure hope you read my other post (POST # 21) and respond.

I think the tax code is screwed up....pretty sure there may have been a sound reason for many of the breaks and taxes applied within the code but once the situation is beyond, nobody corrects the code. This is not something that can be done in one year, or maybe even a term and will require a vast amount of leadership to get it done.

I hope your half full opinion works fine...this is where I get concerned. I am not at all confident that either party can come together and do any of this but I am convinced that without it we are traveling down a road that VERY SOON will spell bad things for us...everyone refers to GREECE and I think it could be even worse than that. We are spending ourselves crazy...

I just am not confident that Obama can become the leader he needs to be...he has shown even less attributes of that that I thought he had in 2008, but on the other hand, I cannot say with any great confidence that Romney is the answer either but I guess I know one and not the other is where I am ending up.

We are at a crossroads in this country...if you read the unemployment information...the stuff beneath the 8.6 percent, it is pretty dire and we continue down the road of the negative stuff instead of standing up and being americans instead of Rep or Dem. I hope your confidence is the correct read.....makes my worries needless but even though needless, the outcome would make me so happy !

Allow me to add to this conversation and perhaps your optimistic views...

Seems that 40 or so senate Dems and Republicans have gotten together and sort of want to "reopen" that committees work.....

"Now, more than 40 Senate Democrats and Republicans have met to discuss the feasibility of using many of those ideas to rewrite the Simpson-Bowles plan and have it ready to offer after the election, in a lame duck session, or early next year. That’s when Congress must address a staggering number of budget and tax issues that, if left unresolved, threaten to jar the economy and possibly push the nation back into a recession."

Read more at Lawmakers Make Yet Another Pitch to Revive Bowles-Simpson

That is good news to me....we are in a serious situation here and looking forward to me has become an exercise in frustration.

Read this article.you will like it...bi partisan and working together...what a concept !!!

Originally Posted by Bucco

Allow me to add to this conversation and perhaps your optimistic views...

Seems that 40 or so senate Dems and Republicans have gotten together and sort of want to "reopen" that committees work.....

"Now, more than 40 Senate Democrats and Republicans have met to discuss the feasibility of using many of those ideas to rewrite the Simpson-Bowles plan and have it ready to offer after the election, in a lame duck session, or early next year. That’s when Congress must address a staggering number of budget and tax issues that, if left unresolved, threaten to jar the economy and possibly push the nation back into a recession."

Read more at Lawmakers Make Yet Another Pitch to Revive Bowles-Simpson

That is good news to me....we are in a serious situation here and looking forward to me has become an exercise in frustration.

Read this article.you will like it...bi partisan and working together...what a concept !!!

I'd like to read that. The link doesn't open the article for me. How old is it?

Originally Posted by Posh 08

I'd like to read that. The link doesn't open the article for me. How old is it?

It is from last month,,,,,

Lawmakers Make Yet Another Pitch to Revive Bowles-Simpson

Any problems go to FISCAL TIMES (a great link by the way) and search...

The Fiscal Times - Business, Economics, Politics and Finance

It is under POLICY + POLITICS

Another link you might like...and I am not in love with all of Simpson Bowles but...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougscho...-fiscal-cliff/

And for those of you who wonder why I am always criticizing the President...

"The Simpson-Bowles plan is a solution to our fiscal problems. It not only reduces our fiscal deficit to 2.2% of GDP, but also is a bi-partisan program that will work when nothing else has.

President Obama must lead the way on this issue. As I’ve recommended before and will do so again, Simpson-Bowles gives America a chance at recovery before we go over the “fiscal cliff” Erskine Bowles has been warning us about."

The Presidency is NOT about polls.....not about being liked...not about great speeches....it is about leadership !! Our President has had a long time to address this...a long time

Originally Posted by buggyone

"but i just can't see that he could evolve to that level."

I thought the conservatve Reactionary Republican did not believe in Evolution. Wasn't the Earth created 5,500 years ago with dinosaurs and Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden together? Oh my, if that isn't true, Sarah Palin would be W R O N G and she never could be wrong about anything.

don't know if they do or not - but you can be sure they don't believe in obama's evolution re gay marriage - it's too obvious that it is just another bogus political stunt.

Originally Posted by buggyone

I would like to ask you what you believe is the difference between a civil marriage ceremony of two straight people (man and woman) and a civil union ceremony between two gay people? Since both have the same intent then both are marriages, aren't they?

Shouldn't both be afforded the exact same legal rights in the unions?

Leave religion out of the equation. That would be up to an individual church to decide if they will do a religious ceremony for gay couples.

The title of this thread is July Jobs Report

This is totally unrelated !

Jobs, jobs, jobs.