Originally Posted by JimJoe

They have blame because they campaigned that this time they would be different.. no more Rhinos.. but the old time Reps are Rhinos and will try every chance they get to go back to their old ways.. (Boehner whine whine whine .. we only have on half of one third of the gov)
.... and the tea party people are not going to take it anymore. If you do not want the job, get out of the way.
JJ

This might be blame, in your eyes, because the proposed budget doesn't have actual cuts but only reduces the spending.

This does not answer the question on why the Republicans would have any blame for a government shutdown. If the Democrats are screaming bloody murder about a decrease in spending, don't you think they'd have apoplectic fits about real cuts. It's still totally their blame for the shutdown.

Originally Posted by Tbugs

If there is a government shutdown - even for a day or a week - the Democrats are going to look like the good guys. There is no doubt in anyone's mind about that.

This same thing happened back in 1995. It was a political game of chicken over Newt's "Contract on America" and spending cuts. The government closed down for about 4 weeks. It cost millions of dollars in wasted money.

The voting public blamed Newt Gingrich and the Republicans. This was what propelled Bill Clinton on his re-election in 1996.

The same thing will happen if the tea party republicans refuse to negotiate in faith with the Democrats. Barak Obama will win re-election in 2012.

The voting public is much more liberal than the majority of contributers to this forum. They will not forget who (and they will remember Republicans) who cost them millions of dollars in wasted money when the Federal government closed.

Do not equate the ultra-conservative contributers of this little forum with the viewpoints of the nation-wide voters.

Sorry, but you're living in the past, I think, along with Sen. Chucky Schumer. The new America with people, especially Tea Party people, are way more aware today than in 1995. The proof is in the last election cycle. The same old tap dance and soft shoe routine is not going to get any applause this time around.

Richie -

I see your point and your vast insight on this matter.

Here is why I say it makes no difference who has the power. Why didn't the Repubs propose 6 trillion in cuts when they controlled the House,Senate,and Presidency? Instead they: broke all spending records,started 2 wars,gave tax cuts to the weathiest Americans,signed the first Wall St. bailout bill,and privatized Medicare Part D. Now the Dems come into power and what do they do? break the existing spending records,keep us fighting 2 failed wars,keep the tax cuts for the rich,bailout Wall St. and on and on. I see no difference in the 2 parties....they pretend to argue,but it's all show. They are all the same,bought and paid for by corporate America and a few other special interest groups.

Originally Posted by waynet

Here is why I say it makes no difference who has the power. Why didn't the Repubs propose 6 trillion in cuts when they controlled the House,Senate,and Presidency? Instead they: broke all spending records,started 2 wars,gave tax cuts to the weathiest Americans,signed the first Wall St. bailout bill,and privatized Medicare Part D. Now the Dems come into power and what do they do? break the existing spending records,keep us fighting 2 failed wars,keep the tax cuts for the rich,bailout Wall St. and on and on. I see no difference in the 2 parties....they pretend to argue,but it's all show. They are all the same,bought and paid for by corporate America and a few other special interest groups.

I completely agree with you.. Demos and Rhinos gotta go.. so vote for Ron Paul and the tea party if you really want to see the spending under control.. and to all of you tea party people who like Sarah Palin think we needed to get into the Libya mess even before President Obama did, shame on you. Admit you were wrong and get back on the side of fiscal responsibility.
JJ

Originally Posted by Tbugs

Richie -

I see your point and your vast insight on this matter.

ha ha

You're forgetting something. The Tea Party winners are being shown for their true colors. When the governor of Ohio did the same thing to public workers in that state that was done in Wisconsin, he claimed to be paring the budget. But when members of HIS staff were shown to have salaries approaching $200K he said that high salaries were needed to attract talent from the private sector.

This is the same line of reasoning that was used to justify huge bonuses to failed bank execs.

Just as the Democrats had their partisanship exposed, the Republicans are headed to that as well.

Bush and Obama bailed out GM to keep six figures worth of jobs from making a tsunami of unemployment - and jobs are actually on the increase. GM is in better shape now. As much as I don't like bailouts, this one seems to have worked (like the Chrysler bailout and the Conrail situation).

Now, there are some 800K federal workers - of which I'm one. I took this job for the security, though it was a bit of a pay cut. Because of the security, I made bets that I could hold on to my house through my divorce and I succeeded. Long term, I'm in far better shape than I was when my ex was 'out to get me'. The upshot is that I *am* mortgaged out. Defending myself has meant hardship for our younger daughter in that college is less attainable but she's working her tail off to make it happen.

I do my job and I do it well. I'm paid LESS than comparative positions in the private sector. The Republicans are trying to convince me that it's for the best if I'm furloughed and NOT paid (as some Republicans are beng quoted in some articles)?

Since neither party is really attacking the deficit, I don't support either one of them. You can't sit there and cry over NPR/PBS funding when you're still trying to produce a jet fighter engine that WE AT THE AIR FORCE DO NOT WANT. You can't claim that it's all the other guy's fault when a budget was supposed to be passed by October 1st - A MONTH BEFORE THE OPPOSITION PARTY WON ELECTIONS AND THREE MONTHS BEFORE THEY TOOK OFFICE!

I am not concern about a government shutdown. In fact it may be beneficial. Pols can't and won't ignore the basic needs of Americans. Beside the debate is the same old jawboning. What I am concerned about is the bigger picture. It seems whichever party is in we end up with the same old problems. I believe that is because the newbies or incumbents, as the case may be, coming in all are facing a "widow maker". Fraud, greed, mismanagement or incompetence each successive administration has added to this dilemma. Add to that unchecked egos and outlier (lobbyist, unions, etc) who really are pulling many of the strings and it is a wonder we are still surviving. I expect the only reason for this is that the governments of our enemies are more corrupt, etc then ours.

What "skin" in the game to pols have? After a short period of serivce they are entitled to benefits you and I could only dream of. How many of them even after 4 years walk out poor? They don't really have to perform. Heck Obama, while in Congress voted "present" most of the time. Even a trained parrot could do that.

I am not a tea party member but I do recognize that their basic benefit to us is there unity against specific issues, taxes, etc. I really believe that our only hope is to have conservatives, liberals and independents come together develop a platform they can all live with, and forgive the directness, " shove it down pols throats. If we ignore the term democratic/ republican, liberal , conservative and view our problems without those labels we will see that we have more in common than we are led to believe by our leaders whose only purpose in dividing us is to provide a "rasion d' etre" It is the only way we are going to come out of this tailspin. I have had this type of dialogue with several senators and representatives. As my Italian parents would say "Basta"! "Basta!" Enough! Enough!

Anyone who borrows 42 cents out of EVERY dollar they spend, whether it be a family, a business, local state or federal governments is just plain stupid or just plain evil.

Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.

That's exactly what most in the government especially Democrats want, slaves. Slaves to the government, slaves to government programs and slaves to the vote to keep the handouts coming.

The Liberals have already pulled out their 30 year old playbook. Any time you talk about cutting spending, it's the Republicans who are out to starve senior citizens and put children out on the street.

Why do the Democrats say things like that? Because they don't want to do with one less dime that's why.

The truth is, they (the government) want slaves. Nowhere else to turn for your daily survival but them and their goal is to get more and more of them lined up. It's amazing to me that anyone falls for it. Why so many are willing to give up more and more of their freedom over to a bunch of lying politicians is beyond me.

Some people are panicked over a Government shutdown, even for a week or two? Really?

I am not at all happy with Pres. Obama's decision to bomb Libya so I'll give you that. However, its really annoying how Republicans conveniently forget the sad state of this country that George W. left. His decision to invade Iraq has been incredibly costly to this country and his refusal to properly tax the rich and big business are among the reasons we are where we are. Trying to dig your way out of this hole is like swimming against a tsunami and now following the fall elections Obama is left fighting the Republican majority at every turn so his effectiveness is severely hampered.

Originally Posted by ducati1974

I am not at all happy with Pres. Obama's decision to bomb Libya so I'll give you that. However, its really annoying how Republicans conveniently forget the sad state of this country that George W. left. His decision to invade Iraq has been incredibly costly to this country and his refusal to properly tax the rich and big business are among the reasons we are where we are. Trying to dig your way out of this hole is like swimming against a tsunami and now following the fall elections Obama is left fighting the Republican majority at every turn so his effectiveness is severely hampered.

I agree with you on Bush screwing up this country but that is because he didnt veto anything, started wars WITH congressional approval WITHOUT PAYING FOR THEM.. took away our rights with the help of demo votes..and spent like a drunken sailor just like the dems (bought senior citizen votes with an UNPAID for prescription drug benefit... BOTH PARTIES ARE GUILTY AND THE TEA PARTY IS MAD AT BOTH OF YOU.
Both parties are guilty of over spending.. that is why the tea party is necessary. .. and please dont call us stupid, astro turf, or racists like demos frequently have done. Do you really think demos impress people with when they do that to us?
We are people who are sincerely interested in saving this country from bankruptcy.
JJ

Let's not forget that the Democrats held it all for 2 years and had congress for 4 years. Let's also not forget that Obama and the Democrats more than doubled our debt in only two short years when they had FULL control of everything. What did they fix? Nothing... in fact it's far worse now. GW didn't put us here today, Obama did.

Originally Posted by dklassen

Let's not forget that the Democrats held it all for 2 years and had congress for 4 years. Let's also not forget that Obama and the Democrats more than doubled our debt in only two short years when they had FULL control of everything. What did they fix? Nothing... in fact it's far worse now. GW didn't put us here today, Obama did.

I agree... BOTH PARTIES HAVE SCREWED up this country. Unfortunately many of the reps are still old school. If it were not for the tea party, nothing would have changed, and Boehner would have folded weeks ago.
JJ

That I agree with.

and quietly..... as the Democrats fall back on the talking points that slam the Republicans for trying to fix the mess.......

The Gov of NY is doing the same to try to fix NY, and the silence is deafening!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/03/opinion/03thu2.html

Who's playing politics now?? Hmmmmm