Democrats never admit they're wrong either, so it's a draw.

Bright! No wonder you and my husband get along so well. You're both Republicans!

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Bright! No wonder you and my husband get along so well. You're both Republicans!

Then the Democrat's position must be that if you don't go along with the Democrats, then you must be Republican.....

A true independent does not buy into "the Party runs my mind." A true independent at least tries to view the world with open eyes, and not just accept the Party hyperbole as the Third Testament.

If a position cannot be defended with logic, and the challenger villified as less-than-intelligent because the challenger dares to challenge, the the position is flawed.

From what I have seen of the Republicans is that they do see Sen. McCain as not a perfect person, and they challenge him consistently to determine his worth as a candidate. From what I have seen of the Democrats. the only thing that seems to matter is that the DNC has pre-anointed the candidate and all will follow regardless of the value of the candidate him/herself, because to challenge the candidate is considered political heresy. Apparently, the "I'd vote for a yellow dog if he ran on the Democratic ticket" still is the party line.

Open discussion on issues and candidates makes us all wiser. Blinders accomplish just what they are intended to do. I find it difficult to believe that Democrats all consider that Sen. Obama is the perfect person and cannot be wrong on anything.

Whether you consider me republican, democrat, whig, green or anarchist is immaterial. I know myself, and that I don't accept pre-ordainment by any Party as gospel. Whether others do is their choice, and possibly their loss. Giving up free thought is one's right....

Not only has he stated we are a nation of 47 states but.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU

Chels....nope

Many years ago I was Republican then switched to Independent. Although I still consider myself an Independent I lean more to the Democratic side.

Surprise!

SteveZ, Bright and I are dear friends, so I was joking with her.

As for my opinion, I think it's evident that I do believe Obama is the best candidate. As I stated in a previous post, I am not led by party lines. I voted for Reagan. It just seems to me I am always more drawn towards the Democratic candidates.

In this particular election, for me it's an easy call. Between Senator Obama and Senator McCain, it's no contest. My vote is going to be for Senator Obama. I also have a right to my opinion and to my vote.

Cabo35, I really don't think you want to go toe to toe with the gaffs made between Obama and McCain. Again, no contest.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

Then you have misunderstood the reference. A bunch of Europeans gathered to hear a politician - any politician - does not make the politician the Messiah, and there seems to be a concerted effort to portray Sen. Obama as bigger than lifelike.

"a bunch of Europeans" as though a European is some sort of lower life form. Sounds like a boorish, nationalistic American. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Lil Dancer

"a bunch of Europeans" as though a European is some sort of lower life form. Sounds like a boorish, nationalistic American. Just my opinion.

No - not "some sort of lower life form," but rather a particular group whose opinion regarding American politics and politicians in general I find inconsequential - rather like the way most Europeans feel about any opinions Americans have about intra-European affairs.

And YES I must then be a "boorish, nationalistic American, and am darned proud of it. There would not be independent states in Europe today if it were not for the "boorish, nationalistic Americans." There hasn't been a battle fought on the American mainland for a century and a half, which is something that can't be said for almost everywhere else on earth, and it's been because "boorish, nationalistic Americans" have made sure it wouldn't happened, while trying to keep the rest of the world from turning into a self-inflicted cinder.

When the "going gets tough," the "enlightened" folk usually are nowhere to be found except to complain at great distance and with considerable rhetoric, and we boorish, nationalistic types end up with the job of fixing what the "enlightened" have broken.

So, if my feelings seem minimal about what a European crowd's opinion of a well-choreographed event designed to mimic Pres. Kennedy's "let them come to Berlin" show, and those feelings are not shared by the "Oh, isn't he wonderful" followers of the Democratic candidate-to-be, so be it! If the Republican candidate-to-be appeared in a similar venue, my feelings would be the same. If hyped theater and great publicity make for the better candidate, then Billy Joel or Garth Brooks (who draw as many or more in Central Park concerts) may be in the next ballot....

> Sour grapes. Obama's trip was a huge success. It's that simple

Originally Posted by chelsea24

SteveZ, Bright and I are dear friends, so I was joking with her.

As for my opinion, I think it's evident that I do believe Obama is the best candidate. As I stated in a previous post, I am not led by party lines. I voted for Reagan. It just seems to me I am always more drawn towards the Democratic candidates.

In this particular election, for me it's an easy call. Between Senator Obama and Senator McCain, it's no contest. My vote is going to be for Senator Obama. I also have a right to my opinion and to my vote.

Chelsea...you said it better than I could. I also voted for Reagan but will vote for Obama in the upcoming election.

Yes, Steve...Chels and I are buds.

One more thing....uh oh...here's a revelation from me...

Jeckyl is my son...go figure! I am so proud of him for the insight he has at such a young age. Well, guess he's not so young anymore being he's in his mid thirties but he'll always be my baby. LOL

He has a Philosophy undergraduate degree with a Masters in the same area. He's working on his doctorate in Sociology now.

AND...we don't agree on all issues so please don't judge me by his comments...each to our own....whether I think he's right or not.....aarrgh!

Originally Posted by brightspot01

Jeckyl is my son...go figure! I am so proud of him for the insight he has at such a young age. .....

You should be very proud. He and I have had a good time with these chats, and expect to share a pint or two when I return to TV in September.

We too don't agree on everything, but being willling to share viewpoints in an open manner is healthy and adult. You done good, lady! ! ! !

Originally Posted by chelsea24

> Sour grapes. Obama's trip was a huge success. It's that simple

Sour grapes? No. - Apathy? Yes.

I'm curious as to what the "success" was and the metrics to determine "success?"

There is no question that Sen. Obama has an air of charisma and the theatrical talent to capitalize on an event.