and the Value Added Tax is just the thing to take if from Americans. A recent Wall Street Journal op-ed doesn't paint a pretty picture of the Value Added Tax.

Here is a portion of the piece. The link below is for the entire editorial: "The very efficiency of the VAT means that it throws off huge amounts of revenue that politicians eagerly spend. The VAT thus becomes an engine of even greater public spending. In Europe, average government spending was about 30.2% of GDP when VATs began to spread in the late 1960s. Today, those governments are more than 50% larger, with spending of 47.1% of GDP on average. By contrast, U.S. government spending (federal and state) rose to 35.3% from 28.3% as a share of GDP in the same period.

"It is precisely this revenue-generating ability that makes the VAT so appealing to liberal intellectuals and politicians. Even liberals understand that at some point high income tax rates stop yielding much more revenue as the rich change their behavior or exploit loopholes. The middle-class is where the real money is, and the only way to get more of it with the least political pain is through a broad-based consumption tax such as a VAT."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ctions_opinion

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

...."The very efficiency of the VAT means that it throws off huge amounts of revenue that politicians eagerly spend. The VAT thus becomes an engine of even greater public spending....It is precisely this revenue-generating ability that makes the VAT so appealing to liberal intellectuals..."

As I've said before, I'd categorize myself as a fiscal conservative with liberal leanings on social issues.

I would support a VAT tax if it was enacted with some deep and dramatic simultaneous spending cuts. The objective would be to reduce or eliminate the annual deficit and ultimately begin to pay down the national debt with both reduced spending and increased revenue. Half a loaf, one way or the other, would be ineffective. Half a loaf, if it was only the VAT tax portion, would be an unmitigated disaster.

But if the VAT was to be what the WSJ article describes, I would be vociferously against its enactment.

I find it humorous when some say they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. You stop being fiscally conservative when you give your money to the government for social programs and redistribution. Anybody who wants to raise taxes is a fiscal liberal.

A conservative teaches the poor to fish. A liberal takes your fish and gives it to the unworthy.

Originally Posted by Donna2

I find it humorous when some say they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal....

Get your chuckles anyway you can, Donna.

I'm pleased that you know precisely what you don't like...but like almost all on your far end of the political spectrum, you don't have a clue about what you do like that will actually work in improving the governance of the country. Sometime tell us how all your neat little sayings actually relate to finding an answer to any of the problems currently faced by the country? Until you do, you're a perfect member of the Party of No.

I might suggest you start by telling us how the conservative members of Congress can "...teach the poor to fish". Try to relate that little ditty to solving the healthcare problem in the country, the legislation for which you so loudly proclaim is simply awful. Start with proposing a solution for getting healthcare for 30-40 million Americans who don't have any. "Teach them to fish" you say. Give us an idea how that relates to this narrow little problem. Until you do, or until the conservatives do, all the neat little sayings are little more than a waste of everyone's time.

Ahh, why do I waste my time writing this. I already know the answer. Those nasty liberals won't let the conservatives have any input. Poor babies.

It is not the governments job to provide anything for you except liberty and protecting us with military. How did this USA get by without government health care for over 200 years??????
I heard that there is an option for you liberals on the tax form to pay more taxes then legally obligated. I say that if we can get 40-50 million liberals to put the money where their mouth is, they can pay for all the uninsured by themselves.

What say you? Put your own money in the pot and leave mine alone!!!!

Can you give me an historical example of where your plan has worked VK?

Also, how can I expect this current administration in Washington, whose Keynesian models that predicted that the $787 billion stimulus package would increase gross domestic product by enough to create 3.6 million jobs (didn't happen), won't now infuse more money into the econmy, implement the Value Added Tax along with Obama's already planned tax increases (the White House has already promised to allow the top individual rate increase in January to 39.6% from 35% and for the Bush tax cuts expire, while the dividend rate will go to 39.6% from 15% and the capital gains rate to 20% next year and 23.8% in 2013 under the health bill, from 15% today.)

I'm no expert, but I think we must insist (at the ballot box) that we start by laying out a plan to balance the budget in five years, scaling back the growth of spending, reform existing entitlements (price indexing instead of wage indexing Social Security), stop the bailouts, postpone the healthcare reform (if not completely cancel it), reform the personal and corporate tax rates to spur growth.
It would take a tax increase of about 70 percent to close the current deficit by 2019.

Originally Posted by Donna2

I find it humorous when some say they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. You stop being fiscally conservative when you give your money to the government for social programs and redistribution. Anybody who wants to raise taxes is a fiscal liberal.

A conservative teaches the poor to fish. A liberal takes your fish and gives it to the unworthy.

You are so correct and have a perfect understanding of Fiscal Conservatism.

Unfortunately those who do not understand will respond by trying to beat you up which is a trait Liberals use when they cannot refute the facts.

I like your Fish Story. Today I heard that Fiscal Liberals want to take 2/3 of the fish you catch, dole out 1/3 to someone who does not fish and keep the other 1/3 for Government use.

I am glad there are thinkers like you, but I am afraid we will never convince a Liberal and if we try they will end up with their usual "destroy the messenger" tactics when they are in a corner.