Originally Posted by billethkid

there has been a big assumption put forth...Martin was shot and died, hence he is the victim.

The victim is not necessarily the one shot...it is your presumption/bias/belief.

Anyway the thread is not SUPPOSED to be about who anybody thinks the victim is in any specific case. It is about who would do a better representation of the victim...Romney or Obama.

Based on Obama's selective response to date, high profile, racial based, with a perceived gain for him out come, cases I would not choose him. He is what he is and he has demonstrated where his interests lie...vote accumulation opportunity.

I do not know enough about Romney, except to offer an opinion based on his behavior about people in general as we are able to observe in the different sources of information available about the man. My opinion is he is less dependent upon the need to make a mark or impression race wise. In that assumption alone I would choose Romney over Obama. As we learn more about Romney in the days ahead we will get a better perspective on our "guess" about his direction on "victims".

I do not need to know any more about Obama's perspective....it is the perspective that his interests are personal and racial based.

btk

In order to ask which candidate would be a better advocate for the victim, you first have to determine who is the victim. Is the victim the dead person or the person who shot him? Was the killing justified and does that make the killer the victim - or is the victim still the dead person? I say "killer" merely because you have the "killer" and the "killed".

As my friend, Rubicon, says - I opine, you decide.

Originally Posted by buggyone

In order to ask which candidate would be a better advocate for the victim, you first have to determine who is the victim. Is the victim the dead person or the person who shot him? Was the killing justified and does that make the killer the victim - or is the victim still the dead person? I say "killer" merely because you have the "killer" and the "killed".

As my friend, Rubicon, says - I opine, you decide.

In most cases, it seems very easy to determine just who the victim was in some crime. I have never got the impression that there are many innocent people in jail. There are some but it is probably less than 2% or so of those incarcerated. Those statistics though are very unreliable-- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/us/25bar.html?_r=1 Innocence Blog: How Many Innocent People are in Prison?

Some poorly written laws on victims' rights also may leave out vast groups of people because of how the law was written or because of some kind of political pressures put on the lawmakers.

The Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case is a tragedy for both families involved no matter what happens in the future. A young man is dead and what looks like a good man's reputation is ruined. I do hope that the facts in the Zimmerman case come out though. Seems like both sides are rightfully sitting on the evidence because of just how emotional both sides have become in this. Trayvon Martin | Judge wants info about Zimmerman's Pay Pal accounts - OrlandoSentinel.com George Zimmerman: Zimmerman evidence to be released soon. What will it show? - Orlando Sentinel George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin discovery - Orlando Sentinel

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Your mistake, or maybe it's actually your bias, is shown in your classification of Martin as a victim of murder. If you would just refer to his death with the appropriate term of "homicide", you wouldn't catch so much grief.

By the way, you are really close to asserting that Zimmerman has to be proven innocent instead of the state having to prove him guilty of wrongful death in any verdict. That's not the way the justice system is supposed to work.

Or do you care?

Bravo! This is an excellent response. Lots more insightful than your highly biased political viewpoints. This is actually a compliment so please don't look for hidden meaning.

Originally Posted by CMANN

You keep refering to Travon Martin as a murder victim. Got proof?

I would think that Obama would be much more visable on victims rights, seeing that his existance politically is dependent on there being a lot of victims to pander to.

Just for the record i am not call Tray Gates or new black panthers victims. I am saying Obama is calling them victims

Originally Posted by MrMark

Bravo! This is an excellent response. Lots more insightful than your highly biased political viewpoints. This is actually a compliment so please don't look for hidden meaning.

Not a good response though from RichieLion when reading my first post.

"Just who was the victim in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman matter though?

It seems to depend on one's views about self-defense, racism, and a number of other factors."

The above quote was from my first post in this thread where I state clearly that it is not clear who was the victim in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman fight because the facts have not come out as yet.

I also mentioned that I had a close connection to a murder victim-- through her mother my then high school English teacher in Reno, Nevada--whose murderers were not caught until three years later (in 1979). That caused a lot of speculation and other such manuevers on the part of the police and the media. The murder was on my birthday of 2-24 in 1976.