Okay, I'm going to try to keep this simple. It honestly boggles my mind to try and digest, understand and put into perspective everything I read and every conversation I have with people with various views about the proposed health care reform package currently in the House. Well, honestly, in my attempt to become educated while remaining neutral and open minded, I find the current political scene as a whole to be confusing.

Should we become more like Europe? Throw them all out? Increase taxes. Cut taxes. Reform education in America. The Unions are good/bad. Overhaul Social Security and Medicaid...Wall Street...the Federal Reserve....


I read everything I can find on all platforms, views and opinions about current things going on in our government. The one common thread that keeps popping up in my research and discussions about such a sweeping overhaul of the health care system in America and the current administration's attitude with Congress on major issues is one thing, Progressive.

In my mind, I keep thinking, why don't the Democrats just pass the thing. They say they have the votes and it will be done this week. Obviously Obama wants it passed. I have determined through my research that the fight involves a new, at least to me, definition of the Democrat Party. The Progressive Democrats are fighting amongst the so called, "Blue Dog" democrats, not just about health care reform, but how far to carry their reform of our nation. That is the true holdup.

We have all heard the words Democrat and Republican our entire lives. Beneath the identities of their historical platforms rests the Progressive Party. I think it's head is fully rising and has gained strength. Their fascist views aren't hard to read about and understand. They proudly proclaim them for all to read.

Even on another thread where readers discussed David Brooks column, the one thing that jumped out at me was Brooks' own words about furthering the Progressive agenda. Am I crazy?

What are the pillars that Obama supports and promises to bring about as a "change" to America's economic foundation"? Health care, energy and education. The same as the Progressives. Maybe he isn't a Progressive. But, it seems to me the Progressives don't want to let this opportunity pass them by.

You may agree with their agenda. Apparently many people do. I don't. If you do, talk about it and educate me as to why the Progressive agenda will bring about a better America. The "Throw Them All Out" agenda may be a plan B for the Progressives. I dunno.

Please, if you get a chance, scroll through these sites. It is really telling IMHO. :

http://www.progressivefix.com/about-us/who-we-are

http://www.progressivefix.com/a-new-politics

http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...generation.pdf

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?...&contentID=895

http://www.pdamerica.org/articles/ne...56-35-news.php

http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/

The second and third videos are, to me, the most telling....

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?...ubsecid=900096

You say you wanted to be open-minded, but then used the term "fascist views". Yet, going to one of the links you provided - the very first one in fact - I find this in their text:

"a social policy that expects and rewards work; a “shared responsibility” model for universal health care now embraced by President Obama; performance-based and fiscally responsible government; a “second generation” of environmental policies that move beyond command-and-control regulation; public charter schools and accountability in education; and a tough-minded progressive internationalism that harnesses America’s strength to defend liberal democracy"

Ok, I see a little socialism in there. But charter schools, performance-based and *fiscally responsible* government? Accountability in education? Defending liberal democracy?

Those are fascist views?

But going to some of your other links, like the Millenial Generation PDF you linked to, I found this little nugget that seemed to expose one of the undercurrents:

"Millennials are more likely than older Americans to support efforts to raise the minimum
wage. Their view tends to be that full-time workers should be able to earn enough to support the basic needs of their families"

Nobody said you were supposed to raise a family on minimum wage. WHERE did anyone get this idea? Minimum wage is where you START - then you make yourself better and worth more. This is where I started (around $2.50 at the time) and I did this radical thing about affordable housing - I took on roomates. My daughter is also doing this as she's just getting started.

Progressivefix.com seems to be more rational than americanprogress.org, at least at first glance.

The latter is internally incosistent. they quote support for unions and say they are important, but then seem to contradict that when it comes to education - the teacher unions being curiously omitted from even being mentioned.

djplong, I'm not baiting you for an argument with my response. I only want to learn. With that being said, why does the phrase "fascist views" seem to be offensive to you? Why can't I use it while being open minded? I didn't say it was evil or bad as you seem to argue.

Please allow me an attempt and try and play devil's advocate to show a point which I obviously didn't articulate in the previous post.

Why is your first point against me being open minded and saying the phrase fascist views? Fascism today is poorly understood and hidden behind a mask of the the wrongs defeated by a dying breed of American WWII heroes. Fascist is used today to describe a racist, Mussolini. Perhaps people like you and I completely misunderstand the word.

All Mussolini wanted to accomplish was social justice and progress, anti-communism, public works programs, better education. He was a journalist. A war veteran. He opposed the social class form of discrimination. He was a scholar of Plato.

His views stirred a revolution for change. In order to have people working he started the Green Revolution and established new farms by draining marshes. His policies at one time had the backing of the Catholic Church. He was anticommunist. He was on the far right of most political doctrines.

Why would his name invoke, what seemed to me, a negative reaction from you?

When you just glean little bits of information from the links I proposed you listen to, I suppose they would sound wonderful and like a change we all can believe in. But look closer. Take a little more time. Be opened minded and listen to the video clips of the discussion after Obama's election on how the Progressives can learn from the election.

Maybe today's Democratic Progressives are misunderstood like modern fascists. Maybe we all just misunderstand and need someone to show us the right way.

To me, a large number of Democrats seem to be operating under the Progressive Party agenda. Do you see that or am I being blinded?

Is it a coincidence that Obama is in Ohio today, the home state of Dennis Kucinich, an open Progressive?

I've been writing as much as anyone here, and I don't have a clue what a "progressive" is, or a "progressive Democrat" for that matter. Frankly, I've assumed that the progressive label was something dreamed up by the media because the term "liberal" was being used too much. Do any of the members of Congress actually call themselves progressives, or is it a media term?

Is a progressive the same as a far-left liberal? Is a conservative Democrat roughly the same as a centrist Republican? I'm as confused as everyone here.

I did find the amplification of the term "facist" quite enlightening. Yes, I also read more into BKC's use of the word than maybe was intended. But even if the definitions of progressive, liberal or liberal Democrat match, I doubt that anyone in the U.S. is going to begin to call themselves facists.

Regardless of the labels, what I'd like to see the way our country is governed are a Congress which will not spend more than a reasonable and economically sound level of tax revenues. Then, I'd like to see some real thought put into what we spend our limited revenues on. That's when the political differences are likely to occur. For me, I'd like to see more spent on providing basic healthcare for every single American, improving the results of our education system, long-term energy policy, and domestic national security (read that immigration reform). I'd like to see less spent on fighting wars all over the place (read that cut the defense budget), trying to buy allies with foreign aid, and injecting ourselves in other countries business and affairs unless there is a clear connection to the well-being of America (read that stop trying to "plant" democracies all over the place--we can't afford it), and cut the plethora of government agencies and programs that don't seem to accomplish anything.

That's what I'd like for starters. What the heck am I anyway?

"I've assumed that the progressive label was something dreamed up by the media because the term "liberal" was being used too much. Do any of the members of Congress actually call themselves progressives, or is it a media term?"

Yes, members of the US Congress call themselves "progressive." I'm not the most educated or articulate person. I'm just a country girl from the coalfields in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Virginia. My mother, God rest her soul, with a third grade education, was the wisest person I've ever met. Self educated to the point she could blow the socks off her college educated children at Scrabble. Blushingly, I say, by the grace of God, I've interviewed US Presidential candidates and a 93 year old volunteer with the Appalachian Regional Commission, ironically, living in poverty.

Help me enlighten myself.


Please allow me. Remember, this is one organization I know about and quickly posted. I can give you more to consider if you'd like:

http://pdamerica.org/about/board.php

http://pdamerica.org/tools/pda/Adboard.pdf

bkcuninghman1: I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding here. I take no 'offense' at the term "fascist views". It just seemed to me that you were saying "open minded" on one had, but using an emotionally charged word on the other that *appeared* to indicate you'd made up your mind, at least to a degree.

You ask why Mussolini's name would invoke a negative reaction from me. Well, the fact that he allied himself with the 2nd worst mass murderer of the 20th Century has something to do with that. The fact that he was publicly executed and his body hung upside down, again in public, shows what many of his countrymen thought of him. And the phrase "Yeah, but he made the trains run on time" is used to ridicule people.

Quite frankly, as I looked at some of the links you provided, I found two completely different tones. In the first ones, a more moderate tone, kind of like how I'd describe, at first glance, a European "Social Democrat" model. The next couple.. That was truly disturbing. The fact that they concentrated on "The Millenials" - the generation born around the turn of the century. To exagerrate for emphasis, it's like asking kindergartners if they are in favor of ice cream for dinner. I mean, my right-leaning 22-year-old daughter asked me when she was 6 "Wouldn't it be better if nobody needed money and we could all just have what we need?" The very definition of "Naive".

djplong, this link, is a study by the Center for American Progress

http://www.americanprogress.org/aboutus


on how to hold the Progressive vote and further the Progressive agenda. It is just one study among hundreds by just one arm of Progressives. You have to delve deeper into their history and current agenda to understand others like Ed Kilgore, James Carville, William Galston, Ry Teixetra, and other "Democratic" strategics. These are serious people.


http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...generation.pdf



The Millennial generation, which supported Obama by a 2-to-1 ratio in 2008, has already had a large effect on American politics. That effect will only grow in future years as this generation—the largest and most diverse in U.S. history—adds 4 million eligible voters each year to America’s electorate. This generation’s agenda is therefore likely to have a large and growing impact on the nation’s agenda.

That’s good news for progressives because Millennials’ agenda is so clearly progressive in all areas. Millennials want to end the culture wars; move America’s foreign policy toward a more cooperative and multilateral approach; rebuild a strong, positive role for government; achieve universal health care; reform and expand America’s educational system; start the transition to a
clean energy economy; and much more. If progressive governance can achieve these objectives, the loyalty of this generation to the progressive cause seems assured.