Here...from another threat that nobody will look at because it's got my name on it:

My replies are long enough already...I don't list EVERY negative.

You are absolutely correct...they don't last forever...they'll need recycling...which TAKES ENERGY. MORE energy than those batteries will produce.

It's called entropy...most people don't know what it is...and fail to account for it. There is NO "perpetual motion" You CAN'T get MORE energy OUT of a battery than you put in. No matter how efficient a battery is...diesel will beat it out. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar.

As the cost of oil goes up...so will the cost of manufacturing batteries. It's a zero sum reality. EREI - energy return on energy invested.

The REAL solution..the ONLY solution that works...that IS sustainable...isn't going to be popular. The planet has twice as many people as it can carry indefinitely. The current population "runs out of supplies" in the not too distant future. And medicine is trying to PROLONG lives? The POOR included? We used to have wars and disease that would cull half the worlds population here and there. And that was BEFORE oil. A planet with a billion would...even 2 billion. But NOT 9 billion +. Living to be well over 100?

It's a zero sum world out there...there's NOT enough to go around. Right now...we pump oil as fast as we can...THE REAL REASON FOR FINDING ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES...they WANT us to cut back...they NEED us to cut back because the population keeps growing ...there is always more demand...and it can't be pumped out any faster. We already pumped out ALL the easy oil. NOW...we MUST pump in the arctic, out in frigid oceans, through 6 miles of water, we MUST frack the OLD wells because the other sources aren't putting out fast enough...to meet the increasing demand.

Oil is used for EVERYTHING. It's the key to modern western civilization. We've reached...peak pumping...not peak oil. The oil is there...but it's thick...like molasses...you can only get it out so fast.

Oil is already too valuable to be used for electricity production.

Originally Posted by Guest

Here...from another threat that nobody will look at because it's got my name on it:

My replies are long enough already...I don't list EVERY negative.

You are absolutely correct...they don't last forever...they'll need recycling...which TAKES ENERGY. MORE energy than those batteries will produce.

It's called entropy...most people don't know what it is...and fail to account for it. There is NO "perpetual motion" You CAN'T get MORE energy OUT of a battery than you put in. No matter how efficient a battery is...diesel will beat it out. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar.

As the cost of oil goes up...so will the cost of manufacturing batteries. It's a zero sum reality. EREI - energy return on energy invested.

The REAL solution..the ONLY solution that works...that IS sustainable...isn't going to be popular. The planet has twice as many people as it can carry indefinitely. The current population "runs out of supplies" in the not too distant future. And medicine is trying to PROLONG lives? The POOR included? We used to have wars and disease that would cull half the worlds population here and there. And that was BEFORE oil. A planet with a billion would...even 2 billion. But NOT 9 billion +. Living to be well over 100?

It's a zero sum world out there...there's NOT enough to go around. Right now...we pump oil as fast as we can...THE REAL REASON FOR FINDING ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES...they WANT us to cut back...they NEED us to cut back because the population keeps growing ...there is always more demand...and it can't be pumped out any faster. We already pumped out ALL the easy oil. NOW...we MUST pump in the arctic, out in frigid oceans, through 6 miles of water, we MUST frack the OLD wells because the other sources aren't putting out fast enough...to meet the increasing demand.

Oil is used for EVERYTHING. It's the key to modern western civilization. We've reached...peak pumping...not peak oil. The oil is there...but it's thick...like molasses...you can only get it out so fast.

Oil is already too valuable to be used for electricity production.

Entropy, I'm impressed that's physical chemistry and a complex concept. I think your chemistry concepts are slightly off. Batteries are inorganic chemistry and have little to do with oil which is organic chemistry. Yes it takes a big machine to dig up lithium but little oil after that. The energy that goes into the battery is electricity and if you used electricity from a diesel generator it would be related to oil but the goal is to use renewable energy which is not related to oil. All of this has nothing to do with perpetual motion which the chemist Carnot in the 1800's proved cannot exist. When you put electricity into your cell phone you get slightly less out than you put in but you can recharge it many times. We don't currently have an economical why to store energy but that shouldn't keep us from expanding renewable energy.