Originally Posted by SteveZ

Does it matter what happened in the last administration, or the one before it, or before it ad infinitum? Yes, but only to the extent of insuring what was done wrong isn't repeated. Two wrongs definitely don't make a right.

And since the delivery of health care crosses state lines, an argument can be made that the "Commerce Clause" of the Constitution can apply to allow federal intervention in health care. With the FDA involved, HIPPA land other related activities, it's not a hard argument.

However, having the authority and exercising it badly and expensively as a national experiment with no empirical data prior to full implementation is foolhardy.

It never ceases to amaze me....while it is true "two wrongs don't make a right" it is totally hypocritical, and I say this only as a general comment, to rail against a practice which we all know has been going on for years...as if it just started.

Healthcare has to be fixed.....

Originally Posted by cologal

It never ceases to amaze me....while it is true "two wrongs don't make a right" it is totally hypocritical, and I say this only as a general comment, to rail against a practice which we all know has been going on for years...as if it just started.

Healthcare has to be fixed.....

Independents have been complaining for quite a while how the two parties first act for their own good, and then worry about the nation as an afterthought.

If the Democrats want to now show themselves as "more enlightened" than the Republicans, then the Dems should act "more enlightened" and do what's right, instead of doing what's convenient for the party.

Cologal: I am a Conservative (notice I didn't say Republican). I'm wondering why you always bring everything to party loyalty (blindly I might add). The discussion should be what is good for Americans as a whole, not black, white, hispanic, muslim, whatever. As long as you are an American citizen, you should be looking at these issues for yourself as well as collectively.

When I point out a politician that is gone off the reservation, I refer to him as an idiot or a jackass. Wouldn't it sound goofy to call the politician an elephant ! So, I refer to politicians as a whole entity and one by one.

When someone just throws facts and data away for the sake of sticking with a mistaken vote or mistaken ideology, then that person is not taken seriously.

Originally Posted by retiredguy

Cologal: I am a Conservative (notice I didn't say Republican). I'm wondering why you always bring everything to party loyalty (blindly I might add). The discussion should be what is good for Americans as a whole, not black, white, hispanic, muslim, whatever. As long as you are an American citizen, you should be looking at these issues for yourself as well as collectively.

When I point out a politician that is gone off the reservation, I refer to him as an idiot or a jackass. Wouldn't it sound goofy to call the politician an elephant ! So, I refer to politicians as a whole entity and one by one.

When someone just throws facts and data away for the sake of sticking with a mistaken vote or mistaken ideology, then that person is not taken seriously.

I agree with that assessment. I am in the same boat...a conservative. I would gladly vote democrat if their party did a 180 degree. I have bashed Bush in the past as I feel he wasn't a real conservative. Sometimes (in the last 20 years) you have to vote for the less of 2 evils.

Originally Posted by retiredguy

Cologal: I am a Conservative (notice I didn't say Republican). I'm wondering why you always bring everything to party loyalty (blindly I might add). The discussion should be what is good for Americans as a whole, not black, white, hispanic, muslim, whatever. As long as you are an American citizen, you should be looking at these issues for yourself as well as collectively.

When I point out a politician that is gone off the reservation, I refer to him as an idiot or a jackass. Wouldn't it sound goofy to call the politician an elephant ! So, I refer to politicians as a whole entity and one by one.

When someone just throws facts and data away for the sake of sticking with a mistaken vote or mistaken ideology, then that person is not taken seriously.

I wholeheartly agree with your comments. Put the party aside and debate the issue as what is best for the country and not the party.

Originally Posted by cologal

Reading aloud a bill to no one is a waste of time. And you believe the Repubs in the last administration read aloud or read the bills at all. Sure I believe that.

On at least one point you are clearly confusing the Obama administration with the Bush administration. TARP was issued by Paulson....under Bush.

I support reforming the healthcare system because it needs it. I have looked all over for the bill itself so I could read it but alas...no luck.

And your choice of the word regime is telling.

So are you a birther too?

Let me address your issues in order. As I have repeatedly pointed out using your own reference, and you continue to deny, jamming a bill through in the middle of the night is a Democrat not a Republican tactic. The real question for you is 'why do you continue to deny the truth'?

I have not confused the actions of the Bush and Obama administrations. In this point you appear to be confusing two different bills. TARP was a program passed to buttress the financial system. Upon coming into office, Obama immediately diverted funds to other purposes. The Stimulus bill is an entirely different item jammed through in the middle of the night, committing much more money than TARP ever had.

I believe we need to do something about healthcare, but it should be done slowly, using pilot programs such as suggested by Steve Z. It should not include coverage for people here illegally. I have not read the bill in total, but what I have read frightens me. It is full government control and rationing of healthcare. This link will take you to the GPO and HR 3200.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf

The use of the word ‘regime’ is deliberate. We have an administration with well over 30 czars, primarily extreme left wing representatives, who are accountable to no one except the president. This is not the government spelled out is our constitution.

As to your ‘birther’ question – The House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution Monday, July 27th honoring Hawaii as the birthplace of Barack Obama, aka Barry Soetoro. Although I have my questions, I believe this puts the issue to bed.

Colagal,

Where is the Barry Soetoro booster when actually asked to answer questions wo hiding behind Democrat rhetoric?

Originally Posted by retiredguy

Cologal: I am a Conservative (notice I didn't say Republican). I'm wondering why you always bring everything to party loyalty (blindly I might add). The discussion should be what is good for Americans as a whole, not black, white, hispanic, muslim, whatever. As long as you are an American citizen, you should be looking at these issues for yourself as well as collectively.

When I point out a politician that is gone off the reservation, I refer to him as an idiot or a jackass. Wouldn't it sound goofy to call the politician an elephant ! So, I refer to politicians as a whole entity and one by one.

When someone just throws facts and data away for the sake of sticking with a mistaken vote or mistaken ideology, then that person is not taken seriously.

Perhaps we are looking at this forum through different lenses. I could point out a larger number of post bashing Obama, Pelosi, Barney Frank...etc.

I vote for both Democrats and Republicans...and did so this last election cycle. My point in this thread has been that a new Republican drum beat, or talking point if you like..is that the bills are not being read aloud. So much so that the Democrats hired a speed reader to start reading a bill aloud recently.

To me this is hypocritical regardless of the party.

Originally Posted by BBQMan

Colagal,

Where is the Barry Soetoro booster when actually asked to answer questions wo hiding behind Democrat rhetoric?

OMG you are a birther..... can't stop laughing.

Actually the term birther is a take-off on the crazy left's "truther" The truthers believe that President Bush planned 9/11.

Originally Posted by cologal

OMG you are a birther..... can't stop laughing.

Why am I a 'birther' - because I use his name? In any case, why are you dodging my questions? Could it be that you have been reduced to name calling rather than rational statements having no rational statements left? TARP and stimulus confused for the easiest example. Do you read or are you another Obama drone?

Originally Posted by BBQMan

Why am I a 'birther' - because I use his name? In any case, why are you dodging my questions? Could it be that you have been reduced to name calling rather than rational statements having no rational statements left? TARP and stimulus confused for the easiest example. Do you read or are you another Obama drone?

I believe his last name is Obama. TARP was done by the Bush Administration and the stimulus package seems to starting to work. The Dow is climbing back and profits seem to be coming up. Unemployment is still a problem that needs to be addressed.

As for me being an Obama drone...hardly I was and still am a Hillary girl. I warned my friends about several things in Obama's platform. However, would I vote for Sarah Palin....LOL.

So I will ask you directly....Is Barrack Obama an America citizen?

"...the stimulus package seems to starting to work. The Dow is climbing back and profits seem to be coming up. Unemployment is still a problem that needs to be addressed...."

And may we have the insight that connects the activity of the DOW and profits to ANY government stimulus?

As the saying goes no matter what boat your in, or your beliefs or your inclination, for or against adding water to the lake, when it does happen, ALL the boats go up. In the case of Obama he would be the first to state the stimulus packages are beginning to work....see the lakes filling and the boats rising......etc....honk....honk!!

btk

Originally Posted by cologal

I believe his last name is Obama. TARP was done by the Bush Administration and the stimulus package seems to starting to work. The Dow is climbing back and profits seem to be coming up. Unemployment is still a problem that needs to be addressed.

As for me being an Obama drone...hardly I was and still am a Hillary girl. I warned my friends about several things in Obama's platform. However, would I vote for Sarah Palin....LOL.

So I will ask you directly....Is Barrack Obama an America citizen?

I will answer directly AGAIN! This is what I posted earlier in this thread, "The House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution Monday, July 27th honoring Hawaii as the birthplace of Barack Obama, aka Barry Soetoro. Although I have my questions, I believe this puts the issue to bed." I say again the issue is closed and BHO/BS has been declared an American citizen.

Now will you at least answer mine? Is jamming a bill through a Democrat and not a Republican tactic? Your citation proved this is definitely true, but you refuse to deal with this truthfully. Are TARP and the stimulus bill two different things entirely and was the stimulus bill jammed through by the Democrats in the middle of the night? There is serious doubt about the 'stimulus' package. TARP has done its job and stabilized the credit markets. This has resulted in the return of some degree of confidence to the markets.

Originally Posted by BBQMan

I will answer directly AGAIN! This is what I posted earlier in this thread, "The House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution Monday, July 27th honoring Hawaii as the birthplace of Barack Obama, aka Barry Soetoro. Although I have my questions, I believe this puts the issue to bed." I say again the issue is closed and BHO/BS has been declared an American citizen.

Now will you at least answer mine? Is jamming a bill through a Democrat and not a Republican tactic? Your citation proved this is definitely true, but you refuse to deal with this truthfully. Are TARP and the stimulus bill two different things entirely and was the stimulus bill jammed through by the Democrats in the middle of the night? There is serious doubt about the 'stimulus' package. TARP has done its job and stabilized the credit markets. This has resulted in the return of some degree of confidence to the markets.

I believe that both the Democrats and Republicans use the same tactics which has been my point all along.