http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

I voted for him once.....he raised taxes. But what he said years ago really doesn't matter now. Times are different.

Yeah, I agree that times are different than when Ronnie was Prez. But I had forgotten just how good "the great communicator" really was. Bill Clinton was pretty good, and President Obama is likeable. But neither of them could present an argument as effectively as Reagan.

Maybe the politics were different back then. When Ronnie said he believed in fiscal conservatism and personal liberties, he really meant it. Today's politicians say the words but when it begins to appear that the principle might get in the way of their re-election, they change course like a rabbit trying to escape a snarling wolf.

They laugh when you say this outside The Villages, but "those were the good old days".

Originally Posted by cologal

I voted for him once.....he raised taxes. But what he said years ago really doesn't matter now. Times are different.

Gee, with that philosophy we should quit teaching history in school.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6DmjBneGBc[/ame]

In a 1961 ad for the American Medical Association's fight against Medicare, Ronald Reagan spoke:

"Write those letters now; call your friends and them to write them. If you don't, this program I promise you, will pass just as surely as the sun will come up tomorrow, and behind it will come other federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country...And if you don't do this and if I don't do it, one of these days we are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children, what it once was like in America when men were free."

Sarah Palin took the text of that very specific advertisement and misrepresented it in her stump speech to talk say that Reagan was talking about American freedom in general:

“It was Ronald Reagan who said that freedom is always just one generation away from extinction. We don’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream; we have to fight for it and protect it, and then hand it to them so that they shall do the same, or we’re going to find ourselves spending our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children about a time in America, back in the day, when men and women were free.”

So is Palin saying that Medicare is a form of enslavement, communism or socialism? She then recently went on to invent some poppycock language about "death panels" concerning her parents or her child. How does her choices about her child's healthcare even enter into any discussion of health care reform? Medicare? Medicaid? Public financing?

It's impossible to have a legitimate discussion of how "public" these health insurance/health care proposals play out when one side simply invents language that twists and distorts before the discussion even begins.

We allow the talking heads and politicans to get our underwear all knotted up over this issue.

1. The cost of healthcare in this country is escalating at a rate so rapidly that it will even more seriously reduce the number of people who have healthcare insurance to alarmingly high rates in as little as a decade. We already spend twice as much per capita for healthcare than any other country in the world. The cost to our economy is already too great and further cost growth is unsustainable.
2. About 20% of our population has no healthcare insurance whatsoever and that number is growing at the rate of 14,000 people per day. The U.S. is the only developed country in the world that does not provide for the healthcare for all of it's citizens.
3. Statistics demonstrate that, regardless of the claims made by partisans and politicians, the health of the American citizenry does not compare favorably with other countries in the developed world. For as much as we spend, we aren't getting our money's worth.

Does it get any more complicated than that? We need to do something and we need to do it NOW. If those that oppose all healthcare reform because of the "public option", then what is their alternative proposal?

I find it abhorrent to think that one of our political parties has presented and has had accepted fully 161 amendments to the proposed legislation in the committees controlled by their opposition party, but they still intend to vote 100% against any proposed reforms. Why? Someone explain how that kind of partisan and purely political behavior is in the best interests of the American people.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

The cost of healthcare in this country is escalating at a rate so rapidly that it will even more seriously reduce the number of people who have healthcare insurance to alarmingly high rates in as little as a decade. We already spend twice as much per capita for healthcare than any other country in the world. The cost to our economy is already too great and further cost growth is unsustainable.

Very misleading. For example, 8 years ago my wife had a carple tunnel procedure. Very painful, recovery took about six weeks, and ended up with a vicadin problem. Met someone the other day that had the same procedure and was back out on the golf course in 1 week. It cost a lot more because of the new robotic equipment used for the surgery. Is this runaway medical inflation, or improved treatment worth every extra dollar. Rising costs are due to medical advances that improve our lives. Think how much money could be saved if we rolled back the clock 10 years and froze medical innovation at those levels.

About 20% of our population has no healthcare insurance whatsoever and that number is growing at the rate of 14,000 people per day. The U.S. is the only developed country in the world that does not provide for the healthcare for all of it's citizens.

Assume that is true. Take out people here illegally, those that can afford insurance but don't want to pay for it and those eligible for Medicaid but don't apply for it, and those numbers drop considerably. 14,000 per day is how many people lose their jobs, thus their health insurance. Focus on fixing the economy, and that goes away.

Statistics demonstrate that, regardless of the claims made by partisans and politicians, the health of the American citizenry does not compare favorably with other countries in the developed world. For as much as we spend, we aren't getting our money's worth.

Statistics don't explain why people come to the USA for medical treatment that they can't get in their own countries. If the USA were just like everybody else when it comes to health care, where would they go. Where would we go.

There are ares of health care reform that both parties can agree on. How about we just stick to those areas, and not redo the entire system.

Originally Posted by RVRoadie

...There are ares of health care reform that both parties can agree on. How about we just stick to those areas, and not redo the entire system.

From all that I've read, there is agreement on about 80% of the "final" bill that has been negotiated between the House and Senate. The Democrat-controlled commitees that have been central to the negotiations have even accepted 161 amendments offered by the GOP and they will be included in the final bill.

There may be a few other issues, but the "public option" seems to be a sticking point between the parties. The Democrats feel it's a cornerstone of any true reform. The public seems to agree. Several polls that I've seen indicate that over 70% of the public wants a "Medicare-like" option to private insurance.

The Republicans seem to be aligned with the insurance and drug companies and are arguing that everything to be handled by the private sector. Reports are that even though the GOP has gotten most of the amendments they've offered accepted in committee, they will still vote 100% NO unless they get the public option removed.

The risk we all run, I think, is that the Democrats decide to test their majority and ram thru "their" bill. They will clearly be able to get it thru the House. In the Senate, they may need to convince 2-3 Senators in order to get to 60 votes, declare cloture, and proceed to a vote on the floor where they only need a simple majority. The pressure that will be applied on just the 2-3 Senators needed to achieve cloture will be tremendous. They could vote for cloture and still vote against the bill and it will still pass, probably a politically effective way for them to "vote both ways" and not offend anyone. Of course, the President will sign the bill.

If this happens, you can be sure that many if not all of the GOP amendments that were agreed to by the Democrats will be removed from the final bill. Then the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the absence of a "bi-partisan approach" will commence.

We have a chance to get a decent reform bill done this time around. For sure there will be a healthcare reform bill passed. The only question is: will it be reform that will be effective? Or will it be a Rube Goldberg set of competing and offsetting ideas that will leave us worse off than when we started--with many more government employees and very little cost reductions?

If it's "Rube Goldberg" again, it will be further demonstration that it's the special interests that are running the country, not "government for the people and by the people". I heard a report on TV today that the drug and insurance company lobbyists are spending $1 million a day on Congress to get the content in the final bill that they desire. The drug companies are desperate to avoid any government intervention in their ability to charge whatever they want for prescription drugs. The insurance companies are protecting their turf, which is already eroding as the baby-boomers graduate to Medicare, and trying to get all the new uninsured people placed in their tender care.

I'm not trying to kid anyone. I think there needs to be a viable, competitive alternative to the handful of insurance companies that are running healthcare in the country. A public option would be OK with me, but if some other form of third-party ownership for a new insurance company could be designed, that would be great. I would be disgusted if that option were chosen and we later find out that it's really being run by the insurance and drug companies. If that's the result...again...we will reap what we sow.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

We allow the talking heads and politicans to get our underwear all knotted up over this issue.

1. The cost of healthcare in this country is escalating at a rate so rapidly that it will even more seriously reduce the number of people who have healthcare insurance to alarmingly high rates in as little as a decade. We already spend twice as much per capita for healthcare than any other country in the world. The cost to our economy is already too great and further cost growth is unsustainable.
2. About 20% of our population has no healthcare insurance whatsoever and that number is growing at the rate of 14,000 people per day. The U.S. is the only developed country in the world that does not provide for the healthcare for all of it's citizens.
3. Statistics demonstrate that, regardless of the claims made by partisans and politicians, the health of the American citizenry does not compare favorably with other countries in the developed world. For as much as we spend, we aren't getting our money's worth.

Does it get any more complicated than that? We need to do something and we need to do it NOW. If those that oppose all healthcare reform because of the "public option", then what is their alternative proposal?

I find it abhorrent to think that one of our political parties has presented and has had accepted fully 161 amendments to the proposed legislation in the committees controlled by their opposition party, but they still intend to vote 100% against any proposed reforms. Why? Someone explain how that kind of partisan and purely political behavior is in the best interests of the American people.

Actually I have to question at minimum much of your math !!

According to the census bureau, some 35.9 million americans are uninsured PLUS 9.7 million NON americans who live here. The President keeps confusing the issue with his rhetoric where he adds them all together and calls them ALL americans ! In any case, I dont think that 35.9 equates to 20%

Secondly, could you please supply the source of your 14.000 per day ? That eqates to almost a million folks every 60 days !!!

Also if as mentioned that figure is coming from folks losing their jobs, I am pretty sure that the stimulus bill supplies MUCH MONETARY relief for COBRA coverage.

The percentage is more like 90% of all AMERICANS have insurance !!!