I have been following this thread. Again, as yesterday, I say this issue of illegal immigration is not an easy one and has me conflicted. Those adversely against want to deport them all back to their native lands. Those proponents want to treat them like citizens. Both of these ideas are wrong because they ignore the reality of the situation and when you do that it works against you. Because of logistics, cost, motives, profits etc. working this situation is going to take some doing. First we have jobs in this country Americans won't do even if you paid them more than mimimum wage. Secondly you have some profiteers (ie employers) who have ignored the I-9 program from it inception in the 1980's. then you have those illegals who have been here for so long that their children have only known america as their home.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal, in fact conservative and one who believes that a person has to carry their own water, which to my knowledge is what these landscape workers have been doing in and around TV. But to suggest with one swipe of a pen that all illegals will be deported may have not looked beyond that point to imagine how this will be carried out. Heck look at how we are treating terrorist and they keep saying let me out and I will try and blow you up again. So again I ask " Does anyone have a win/win plan? And let me add that your plan has to be able to work around the political climate. Because unless you can offer a plan where "what's in it for me" those with the power will not move. this is my view but I am open to other views that may alter my opinion concerning this issue

Yes, I agree, they're here illegally and should anyone with that status should be deported.

That still doesn't answer the fact that they're doing jobs that Americans won't do (not at that price, anyway). You'd think with all this unemployment, there'd be less in the way of illegal immigrants. Heck, I drove a cab towards the end of my longest period of unemployment.

benefits there might be more people out looking for jobs.
I know of some who will NOT go out and look for a job when Obama continues to extend their free ride. Unemployment a really outdated, now made stupid concept....what an incentive....paying people to stay home.

I had read some where the flow of illegals into the USA has been lower than the recent past due to the high unemployment here. And they to have a list of jobs they won't do. Progress.

btk

The impacts of illegal immigrants upon US citizens, particularly in the African American community and to a lesser extent the Latin American community, have largely been overlooked in the discussion of the issue.

Under the guise of these people do work that American citizens will not do, we have allowed an undercutting of the wages previously paid to US citizens for work that needs to be done. These areas included farm work, food processing, landscaping and construction.

In California, the field workers organized under the leadership of Cesar Chavez formed the United Farm Workers to protect the people then working on California farms. The UFW understands the impact of illegal aliens upon the American worker as well as any organization. From their inception through today, they oppose using illegal immigrants knowing that the impact would hurt their members who are either American citizens or legal workers.

We do not see food-processing going on, but your chicken, beef, etc. are winding up in the supermarket. The same problems exist in the food processing plants as they do in the farms. Illegal immigrants who will work faster, longer and for less money under the threat of being turned over to ICE, have replaced US citizens.

We all see what is happening in landscaping. Thirty years ago, I had to have my Florida lawn replaced. My son, who had worked in the home construction industry was looking at an old family movie and burst out laughing, exclaiming, “You had white men doing lawn work.” The answer is yes I did, and those men went home to their family supporting them on the wages they were paid by the contractor who did the job.

There are two ‘villains’ in what has happened. The apparent one is the company that hire these workers. Unfortunately, because of competitive pressures, they have little choice. The real source of the problem is Uncle Sam. By allowing an unrestricted flow of illegals into the country and then into jobs we have created a situation in which American citizens with few skills and little education cannot find a job. This flow will continue and work its way up the ladder, so long as we do not restrict it.

Stopping the flow through real border security is the first step. If we have to go to the extreme of the Korean DMZ, then we should. The second is to enforce strict criminal penalties against those who hire illegals and those who provide them with paperwork. Violation MUST draw prison terms to be effective. I suggest that Joe Arpio be hired to oversee the construction of these camps, preferably in the Aleutian Islands.

Originally Posted by IowaParkersburg

...if we have one American out of work and is truly looking for a job, then we should not be hiring anyone to fill that position that is not supposed to be in this country....

I'm not going to confront any individual here, but thinking like this falls in the same category as who say we can balance the budget and repay our debts by simply cutting discretionary spending and not raising taxes. The arithmetic simply doesn't work.

The same is true of foreign workers becoming an important factor in our labor force. The legal versus illegal question is a legitimate one, but we simply better get used to a fairly substantial number of jobs in this country being filled by people who don't carry U.S. passports.

The reason is the dramatic decline in the birthrates here in the U.S. The U.S. birth rate has fallen to its lowest level in at least a century. The birth rate, which takes into account changes in the population, fell to 13.5 births for every 1,000 people last year. That's down from 14.3 in 2007 and way down from 30 per 1,000 in 1909.

Very simply, there are not enough Americans being born to sustain a strong economy which will support a population which is aging and increasingly leaving the workforce or is unable to perform important, but physically-demanding jobs.

We're not the first country to experience this problem. Several developed countries are, and they are dealing with it differently. Japan has a seriously aging population and does not permit any substantial importation of foreign labor. You might make note of the fact that recently, Japan's economy fell to third in the world, being bypassed by China. Germany on the other hand has a vibrant economy in spite of a low birth rate because they use such a large amount of foreign labor.

Demographers know that a shrinking workforce will stymie growth and countries that have the problem will struggle to foot the bill for rapidly aging populations. Germany has active programs to encourage the birth of children. They recognize they have a problem and are dealing with it. Unfortunately, here in the U.S. nothing has been said about the problem and people, particularly politicians, keep talking about unemployment, which is a temporary problem, but have not addressed the longer-term structural demographic problem of the low U.S. birthrate.

Like I said, it's just arithmetic.

Parkersburg, have you taken a look at the meatpacking and poultry packing plants in Iowa? This has to be some of the most disgusting and filthy jobs you can imagine. The meat and poultry packers (wealthy and Republican) are actually recruiting for laborers in Latin America to work in Iowa. The largest Kosher meat packing plant in the US was raided by ICE and over 450 illegals were captured and deported. This was Postville, Iowa. The owners of the Kosher plant were convicted of supplying stolen Social Security cards to these people. The plant was closed down. Postville is now dried up and is blowing away in the Iowa wind. No industry means no workers and therefore no economy. You can buy a nice house in Postville for under $35,000 but no one will move there.

Plenty of unemployment in Iowa among the youths. They would rather manufacture, sell, and use meth than work in a slaughterhouse.

Can you say that having the illegal immigrants in Postville was good because it improved the local and state economy (these people paid Social Security tax through the stolen cards and would never get benefits) - or would say it is bad because out-of-work Iowans were not working at the slaughterhouses for minimum wage? How about if Iowans were working there for minimum wage, uunionized, and demanded $32 per hour plus health insurance? Would you be willing to pay $28 per pound for Iowa chops - as delicious as they really are?

What do you propose for a solution?

Originally Posted by IowaParkersburg

...We have to get away from the belief that just because we are Americans, we deserve a better lifestyle than the rest of the world. Work today for your future and expect to work 40 years to make it a nice future. Get rich quick is not the answer.

The sad thing is that you probably couldn't get one out of ten high school seniors to agree with this statement.

And therein lies a big part of the problem. The younger people in our society commonly feel that they're to smart to do work like harvesting crops or working in a slaughterhouse. Somehow they feel the government owes them a better lifestyle. And somehow they get it...thru unemployment compensation, grants and loans to keep going to college, anything but doing a hard days' work!

Funny thing is...the younger U.S. generation aren't even that smart. Last time I looked, the three-yearly OECD Program for International Student Assessment report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics. (The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development is an international organization which promotes policies that will improve the economic and social well-being of people around the world.)

But guess what, U.S. kids are smart enough to somehow influence a bunch of politicians at both the federal and state levels to pay them a decent living for not having to work. Let those stupid immigrants do the hard work while we wait for a better deal. Actually, let the smart immigrants do the high-paying jobs as well. They're smart enough in math and science to do them. No wonder employers like Microsoft are putting most of their new facilities offshore. There they can get employees smart enough to do the work they need done.

And then we get into these discussions about making sure that all Americans have a job before any immigrant gets one. I guess the difference is that jobs that appeal to our kids have to be a high-paying, easy jobs...ones that will permit the worker to take off every now and then and have a boss that's really nice and will never yell at them, jobs that don't require the employee to be particularly smart or well-trained. Is there any wonder why employers and business-owners are seeking immigrants to work for them--legal or illegal--or moving their plants and offices offshore?