Originally Posted by Donna2

Apparently were are reading different sources. Most things that I read about this administration's foreign relations are not very admirable. He disses our friends and sucks up to dictators. How can this be any good in the real world?

Yup, we must read different sources.

But as far as who gets "dissed" and who gets "sucked up to", remember the way the foreign relations game is played. The name of the game is to establish relationships--with any kind of country, democratic, socialist or dictatorial--that will achieve the best interests of the United States. Positive resulting relationships are often described as "allies". Allies are only good for as long as the other country can provide what it is we are seeking. There really are no friendships in foreign relations, only temporary relationships where there is a mutual benefit.

We might not like Russian politics, but there are clear mutual benefits that can be gained by strengthening the relationship. The same would even be true of Hugo Chavez. If we could get first dibs on Venezuela's oil reserves, I guarantee that we would "suck up" to him, even though he is a known dictator.

Do you think we really give a rat's a__ about Krygzyzstan other than for the fact that we need a big airbase there to make it easier for us to take military action in the Middle East? And remember where Kryzyzstan is located--it has a major border with China and our airbase is only about 1,500 miles from both Tehran as well as the center of India. The distance to Afghanistan is less than 1,000 miles. We'll make nice with the government of that country--whoever they are--for as long as they let us have our airbase there. If they are a dictatorship, yes, we'll suck up to them.

Originally Posted by cabo35

...I believe, as do many others, that Russian and China for many years, make that decades, have pursued a single minded core policy of creating a new world order without a powerful United States in the equation....agree with Obama's articulated new world order philosophy, ...where he disses American Exceptionalism and moved away from years of diplomacy that positioned America as a beacon of democracy that so many sacrificed so much for. Obama rejected our position as a world economic power and has all but insured, I submit deliberately, our demise as a leader in that venue...

We can agree to disagree, Cabo. But I guess I'm amazed that anyone can really believe that one American President could have accomplished so much change in only thirteen months.

I agree with you regarding the Russian and Chinese objectives of marginalizing the U.S. To a large extent, we've contributed to our loss of influence far more as the result of the actions of our own government over the last 10-20 years than anything the Russians and Chinese have done. We've spent ourselves into weakness and our foreign policy has been alarmingly inconsistent.

Should Afghanistan be the problem it is today had we been more consistent in the way we dealt with that country, even within the last decade? Go back further and read the history of the Middle East. I think it could be argued that the problems that the U.S. and the west are experiencing in the Middle East now are almost totally the result of gross inconsistencies and disdainful refusals to honor treaties and agreements affecting that region, dating back no further than about 1920. The Brits can be blamed far more than the U.S., but we stood by silently and cooperatively and watched it all happen. That was done even before anyone knew there was a lot of oil under all that sand. The Arab states don't believe anything that we tell them and they've got more than enough legitimate reasons to have reached that conclusion and treat us with suspicion and even contempt. We call a lot of Middle Eastern countries "allies". We'll continue to call one another allies as long as we keep sending them billions of dollars in aid and weapons and they either don't directly enter into a war against us and let us continue to buy their oil or ship it thru the waterways that they own and control. Is that a bad deal?

An interesting foreign relations question might be...would we be better off in the long term if we were to break off any diplomatic relations with Russia and China, knowing that they consistently act much more for their own benefit than for ours? You might agree that proposal is ridiculous on it's face. If so, it seems to me that a continuation of diplomatic efforts with those countries still holds promise that we can achieve things that are important to us.

The recent nuclear arms reduction treaty is an excellent example. Russia is still trying to regain its position as a world power, even if it's at our expense. But if by talking we we able to reach an agreement to reduce the threat of global nuclear war while marginalizing both Iran and North Korea at the same time, it seems like a positive development to me.

Does anyone really expect Russia and China to sacrifice major economic benefits that result from their providing refined gasoline to Iran? Would we agree to such a thing if the roles were reversed? What if the U.S. was supplying all the gas consumed in Iran and Russia and China asked us to apply diplomatic pressure by stopping such sales because they felt threatened by the prospect of a nuclear Iran? That's another ridiculous question with an obvious answer. I doubt that either country would cut off diplomatic relations with us because they were PO'd about the obvious decision.

It could easily be argued that both Russia and China will be at greater risk than the U.S. if Iran were to become more unstable and have nuclear weapons. They're both located a whole lot closer to Iran than we are, and Iran clearly has no means to deliver a nuclear warhead as far as the U.S., nor any prospect that might happen anytime in the foreseeable future. If that happens--and it may--who will be in the better position, those countries who have significant economic and diplomatic relations with Iran, or those that do not? Another question with an obvious answer.

Foreign relations is all about keeping up the dialog, getting as much as you can and giving up as little as possible. The key to the game is really understanding what's of long-term importance to you as well as knowing exactly what you can give up that's not too important. It's always a two-way street--until barriers are built and traffic is stopped altogether.

Yes, that's the right idea....break off diplomatic relations with Russia and China. That will certainly help the United States especially with all the debt picked up by China. Then we could experience a real "fire sale" on our country from debt sold at a discount by the Chinese just to be obstinate or worse. Your thinking is skewed Kahuna. Better yet pick up some tapes and begin learning to speak Chinese, that would be a much better option than blaming an administration that has no experience whatsoever in dealing with other governments in the world. We are babies in world politics, but then the voters who put these imbeciles into office don't care. They just wanted revenge for the past Republican administrations. Well they have it now, as will their children and grandchildren for years to come. We will be lucky to have this present administration and the evil it has done out of Washington in only one term, if not we are certainly doomed! We are crumbling from within, not without Kahuna. Fix the internal first, everything else will fall into line.

Originally Posted by GatbTester

Yes, that's the right idea....break off diplomatic relations with Russia and China. That will certainly help the United States especially with all the debt picked up by China. Then we could experience a real "fire sale" on our country from debt sold at a discount by the Chinese just to be obstinate or worse. Your thinking is skewed Kahuna. Better yet pick up some tapes and begin learning to speak Chinese, that would be a much better option than blaming an administration that has no experience whatsoever in dealing with other governments in the world. We are babies in world politics, but then the voters who put these imbeciles into office don't care. They just wanted revenge for the past Republican administrations. Well they have it now, as will their children and grandchildren for years to come. We will be lucky to have this present administration and the evil it has done out of Washington in only one term, if not we are certainly doomed! We are crumbling from within, not without Kahuna. Fix the internal first, everything else will fall into line.

Typical "bite off the nose to spite the face" mentality. We will all suffer because of the Left's hatefulness.