Originally Posted by RichieLion

I do think I know how you really feel about this subject. People overindulging or doing dangerous things to their own bodies naturally leads to the discussion of personal responsibility, and I understand how you feel people should accept consequences for their actions, and I really don't disagree. We can't expand that to mean that an unelected bureaucrat gets to decide if we're "worthy" of medical care based on arbitrary standards. I'm sure you also agree with that.

I agree !!!!

Originally Posted by RichieLion

"what if's"; here we go with the "what if's".

"If" an insurance company decides to withhold coverage for treatment, I have legal recourse, unlike I what I would have with the government.

You don't vote out bureaucrats, so your reasoning is fatally flawed; emphasis on the "fatally".

This morning on "Morning Joe" I heard not the entire conversation but Howard Dean, surely a Democrat said that this administration had all the wrong people come in to advise them and each group that came in left with a promise of something.

On the same show as I watched that showed pamphlets put out by Obama himself when Clinton was trying to get some health care legislation, crticizing for one thing the personal mandate.

Point is, those who want to put this man on a pedestal should think about the fact that He did not tell the truth when he said there would be an open dialogue on health care....He did not tell the truth when he said this bill was the best and NOT a political sideshow, and of course as he always does, he stretches the truth about his constant and ever changing views on EVERYTHING. All politicians change their views on things over time to one degree or another, but Obama has maintained a saint like aura about being above the politics. He is a politician for sure.....he is NOT a leader for sure.

the opening post characterized obesity and the elderly as a place to find it...in so many words.

One just needs to go to any public place and observe. I disagree. I personally see almost every other person as being over weight or rotund....and I don't know where obese begins or these leave off.

Our society is more lethargic, less active and eat more junk/crap than at any time in our past. A more accurate scale would be that obesity is OBVIOUSLY across the board...all age groups...all sexes...all colors...all religions...and what ever I missed.

btk

Originally Posted by RichieLion

In the U.S. you don't have to be wealthy to supply your own healthcare.

Oh really? How much do you think an ER visit costs?

To get back to the OP - I read about this story a few days ago.

Basically this fat woman, who's dietary habits were basically listed for all to see, is saying that the NHS should pay for her gastric banding or bypass surgery that she wants. She says it's the only way for her to lose weight and that staying fat will cost taxpayers more by her being 'on benefits'.

First, that sounds like blackmail. But I digress.

Now here's the interesting thing. She says she can't stop eating - and hasn't been able to since her pregnancy. She basically turned into a glutton when she could suddenly use the excuse that she was eating for two - despite the fact that the "#2" she was eating for was the size of a pinhead at the time.

For a person who WILL NOT stop eating, gastric banding/bypass won't work. You will be in SEVERE pain and all kinds of complications will occur.

This has all the hallmarks of someone who THINKS up an idea and finds some headline-hungry news 'reporter' and makes an issue out of it.

Remember, NHS *does* have some good parts to it. One individual was FINED because he swallowed a large amount of coins so he could keep getting treated at a hospital. I wonder if they'd apply the same standards to her.....

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

And I have even less confidence in profit-driven private insurance companies making those decisions either, Richie.

With the government, at least you have a vote every 2-4-6 years. What is your recourse if the private insurers tell you, "...sorry, we're not covering that anymore"?

That is what all 50 states have a state insurance commissioner and depatment for. No policy and its coverages and exclusions can be sold until it has been analyzed by actuaries for its financial solvency and claims vs. premiums collected ability to stay solvent with legal amounts of reinsirance and reserves. Nor can any policy be marketed without the department's approval of the policy coverages and exclusions reqired or allowed under state and federal law.

And the state cimmissioner or director is accountable to voters by way of the election of the governor who appoints him as a Cabinet member or by way of the legislators who we vote in and out.

Best of all, insurance co. dolts at a computer screen, reading a script to your doctor and approving payment, can be fired because they are not in public sector unions that bar firings for incompetency, chronic absence and lateness etc.

I know a lot of different people have legitimate reasons/problems for not being able to not be over weight. However, for the majority, it is a simple fact of controlling input...eating too much....and exercise.

They continue to want the magic pill that will allow them to continue their contribution to being fat life style and lose weight. Not going to happen.

btk

Affordable? The average healthcare costs for a family of 4 will top $20,000 a year in 2012. Thats a 7% increase,5th year in a row of large increases. Doubled since 2002. Rationing? If this continues families will be forced to ration healthcare themselves never mind the government. Our system is broken for most of us,simply it is too expensive. I already know people who have given up their dental plans,or their prescription plans because of costs. Affordable? I don't think so.

As for obesity please look up DIABESITY and some might be surprised at the scope and cost the obese put on our healthcare system. Diabesity is bankrupting our heathcare system and making us the sickest nation in the world.

the so called costs in the health care business is directly attributable to fraud, price gouging by pharmaceutical companies, political and other government protection of the pharmaceutical companies (just like oil) and probably the biggest contributor to health care costs the US Government for it's lack of action(s) to curtail all the above....because it is in their personal self interest to do nothing....just as in oil and energy.....and too many to mention other hose jobs...

we the people get stuck with the end result.
We the majority are getting what we deserve because we allow it to continue.

Obamascare is only more icing on an already, long ago baked cake.....destined to break the back of what we think is bad now. What you have today is the best health care at the lowest price not to be continued in the foreseeable future. You will pay more in the years to come to TRY to remain at parity with what you now have. Future costs in and of itself will be a rationing in effect shutting out those who just cannot afford what needs to be done.

btk

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I don't have to say anything. Your logic is shining like a beacon.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Originally Posted by djplong

Oh really? How much do you think an ER visit costs?

I mean, to become insured.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I don't have to say anything. Your illogic is shining like a beacon.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Not funny, changing my post. It's also very dishonest.

Originally Posted by waynet

As for obesity please look up DIABESITY and some might be surprised at the scope and cost the obese put on our healthcare system. Diabesity is bankrupting our heathcare system and making us the sickest nation in the world.

It's none of your business. Many of these people have personal problems and/or medical conditions which lead to obesity.

I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant.

Liberals wish to take care of the sick from the young up to the old. Conservatives wish to take care of the rich down to the poor.

Sad but true.

Shows very selfish ME ME ME.

I would rather give than receive.

Conservatives only give what they have left over from there selfishness.

Just saying.