.... if by a "Liberal" (they) mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

- John F. Kennedy, September 14, 1960

How the right would LIKE to define us...

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then … we are not that kind of "Liberal."

- John F. Kennedy, September 14, 1960

Liberals want larger Government More Government jobs, fewer private sector jobs and confusingly more taxes on the producers to give things to the non-producers.

It seems to me that conservatives have convinced themselves and some of the american public that being a liberal is like being a communist. I disagree. To be a liberal is to define the liberty of all people. Thjat's where the word comes from. To be a liberal is to trust individuals and fanilies to run their lives as they see fit. To be a liberal is to create a nation where anyone can excel if they are willing to work. Liberals get their label by standing for liberty. Consevatives get their label from a desire to conserve a style of living.

Of course there are always exceptions, but IMO, a liberal doesn't really stand for much of anything. Nothing is ever black and white, only shades of gray.

They generally put feelings above fact or reality. If it sounds good and makes them feel good, the actual outcome or consequence doesn't really matter.

Liberals generally put their faith in government for solutions and fail to realize that most of the problems are created by government.

Rugged individualism, self reliance and personal responsibly is somewhat of a foreign concept... or even considered mean spirited by some. They preach tolerance but are generally intolerant to beliefs other than theirs. Political correctness is the rule of the day.

They generally believe that money earned belongs to the government and should be distributed by the government. The more you earn the more that should be taken. They generally believe that government knows best on how to spend our money.

Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by dklassen

...Rugged individualism, self reliance and personal responsibly is somewhat of a foreign concept... or even considered mean spirited by some.

So which of the two "conservative" candidates for the U.S. House meets this description? The one guy that sneaked into the candidacy using subterfuge? He hasn't said much and seems only to have experience chasing perps in a rural Florida county.

Or the other guy who has no particular positions on any of the major problems facing the country? So far at least his complete campaign platform is that he is a staunch supporter of the Constitution as well as state's rights. Somehow that doesn't light my fire for my representative in the House who has to deal with a myriad of security, fiscal and social issues that he seems to know little about.

Or is it possible that a candidate from the "other" party might satisfy the description better? Geez, I'd hope someone is more qualified than the first two.

Originally Posted by ptownrob

.... if by a "Liberal" (they) mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

- John F. Kennedy, September 14, 1960

If I could find a candidate that met this description, I'd vote for him/her in a nanosecond. I wouldn't care what party he was from.

Originally Posted by dklassen

Of course there are always exceptions, but IMO, a liberal doesn't really stand for much of anything. Nothing is ever black and white, only shades of gray.

They generally put feelings above fact or reality. If it sounds good and makes them feel good, the actual outcome or consequence doesn't really matter.

Liberals generally put their faith in government for solutions and fail to realize that most of the problems are created by government.

Rugged individualism, self reliance and personal responsibly is somewhat of a foreign concept... or even considered mean spirited by some. They preach tolerance but are generally intolerant to beliefs other than theirs. Political correctness is the rule of the day.

They generally believe that money earned belongs to the government and should be distributed by the government. The more you earn the more that should be taken. They generally believe that government knows best on how to spend our money.

Just my opinion.

You quote the standard party line and sound bites quite well, unfortunately it's not based on reality.

Originally Posted by dklassen

Of course there are always exceptions, but IMO, a liberal doesn't really stand for much of anything. Nothing is ever black and white, only shades of gray.

They generally put feelings above fact or reality. If it sounds good and makes them feel good, the actual outcome or consequence doesn't really matter.

Liberals generally put their faith in government for solutions and fail to realize that most of the problems are created by government.

Rugged individualism, self reliance and personal responsibly is somewhat of a foreign concept... or even considered mean spirited by some. They preach tolerance but are generally intolerant to beliefs other than theirs. Political correctness is the rule of the day.

They generally believe that money earned belongs to the government and should be distributed by the government. The more you earn the more that should be taken. They generally believe that government knows best on how to spend our money.

Just my opinion.

I agree. I also believe that if Kennedy was alive today he would be appalled at what happened to the democrat party. I believe that Kennedy would be a Tea Party kind of guy.

Actually it is based in reality. But it is a reality that few liberals really understand or would even admit to if they did.

There are many many examples to illustrate exactly what I said.

This is an old definition of the difference between a Liberal and and a conservative:

A liberal and a Conservative were walking down the street and saw a homeless man.

The Conservative gave him his card and asked him to come to his offiice to apply for a job. He then reached into his pocket and gave the Homeless man 20 dollars.

The Liberal gave him the address to the Welfare Office then reached into the Consevative's pocket and gave the Homeless man 50 dollars.

hehe.

Someone tell me where rugged individualism, self reliance and personal responsibly fits into the liberal ideology?

Also tell me where limited government, pro private sector fits into the liberal ideology?

Originally Posted by dklassen

Someone tell me where rugged individualism, self reliance and personal responsibly fits into the liberal ideology?

Also tell me where limited government, pro private sector fits into the liberal ideology?

Were you asking this question while happily living on Social Security and Medicare. Or was it while you were driving on nicely paved highways with traffic lights to avoid accidents? Perhaps it was while you were drinking a glass of water that was clean to your government's standards. Or taking your medicine that is regulated by your FDA. Perhaps it was eating a burger that was not full of rancid meat and rat droppings, or maybe while you were safe in your home becasue your fire and police and the U.S. Military are watching over you for your safety.

Maybe you prefer that your airline pilot is a rugged individualist. Who needs federal standards for a license, or inspectors to make sure that a planes' mechanics are safe to fly? Who needs to control the patterns of thousands of planes in the sky? Rugged individualists should should just push on through and take-off and land whenever and wherever they want, shouldn't they?

Maybe you were just coming back from the VA, where your health benefits, for better or worse, are supplied by your government, while millions of your school children are given the best education in the world (America is #1 isn't it? Isn't that what you keep saying?)

You see, you are throwing out the position that "rugged individualism" is something that only the repub party has, or that somehow that's a magic definition of "providing for the common good" is your standard- and one, if you are living in The Villages, you have COMPLETELY given up for the privileges you receive through your amenity fees. Rugged individualists don't eat at restaurants, or golf in foursomes, clog, or take "tours" of foriegn countries. Rugged individualists don't take cruises!!!. Rugged individualists don't join in commmunity activities like churches, block parties or Relays for Life. Rugged individualists do not have their money stashed in government regulated IRA'S or retirement plans, they keep their money under the bed.

I'll toss it back to you.. Without the sound bites..Just what is "Rugged Individualism" in a civilized society? BTW, I have hiked the Sierra Madres, Appalachians and the Rockies, and am an Eagle Scout. I have been to the jungles of the Amazon and the markets of exotic Morocco. Never with a tour group. Rugged enough for ya? You betcha!

No one said we wanted to go back to the caveman lifestyle. Government has it's uses. Problem is that democrats are turning it into the nanny state. Democrats have turned millions of people to depend on monthly checks instead of being independent. How is Johnson's war on poverty working out for us?
Government is getting huge. We cannot continue on this course. Too many on the wagon and too few pulling the wagon. Democrats have been passing "gimme Bills" to buy votes for too many years.
Unions and Democrats have brought our system to it's knees. It has wrecked our automobile industry and now the government employees lavish paychecks and pensions are destroying us. Look to Greece and see our future.

Maybe after the democrats crash our system, we all will be "rugged individuals" as we will have no choice. It might be sink or swim time!!!!

Actually I don’t live in the villages, I don’t golf, never been on a cruise, I don’t have any money stashed in government IRA’s, I’m not on social security, Medicare, VA or any other government program and never have been.

I’ll most likely be working all of my life... that I am able. What I have used or may use in the future I paid into out of my paychecks all my life. Had I the ability to choose, I would have gladly opted out and fended for myself.

Your examples are disingenuous at best. The government does have a role, that’s why the constitution was written. Liberals and their entitlement mentality seem to have forgotten what the government’s role really is.

Your perception of rugged individualism is so far off the mark it proves my point perfectly. Liberals don’t really get it. But the rest of your post is telling. Government, government, government, government, government and more government.

Originally Posted by dklassen

Someone tell me where rugged individualism, self reliance and personal responsibly fits into the liberal ideology?...

I suppose there are lots more examples, but how about Harry S. Truman? He was a Democrat...a liberal, if you will.