Originally Posted by Donna2

Do any teachers here agree or are they so deeply entrenched in the system that they do not see the trees from the forest?

That should be "they can't see the forest for the trees" Just kidding too!

I referred to the diploma difference over fifty years because it is a quick indicator of what the real "forest" is. Simply stated, in recent decades our nation has provided significantly higher educational opportunities to a much larger percentage of our diverse population than we did in the "old days". Don't condemn education just because you've met some high school grads who can't name 25 US states. Just think for a minute about the number of 18-year old kids there were in 1930, never having got past 4th grade, and never having even heard of perhaps more than 5 states.

Your question above is the same as "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
I know lots of talented, persistent, patient teachers who were able to keep their eyes on the forest, and educate hundreds of kids well, despite the distractions and roadblocks that are around education, but every large collective human endeavor as well.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

That should be "they can't see the forest for the trees" Just kidding too!

I referred to the diploma difference over fifty years because it is a quick indicator of what the real "forest" is. Simply stated, in recent decades our nation has provided significantly higher educational opportunities to a much larger percentage of our diverse population than we did in the "old days". Don't condemn education just because you've met some high school grads who can't name 25 US states. Just think for a minute about the number of 18-year old kids there were in 1930, never having got past 4th grade, and never having even heard of perhaps more than 5 states.

Your question above is the same as "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
I know lots of talented, persistent, patient teachers who were able to keep their eyes on the forest, and educate hundreds of kids well, despite the distractions and roadblocks that are around education, but every large collective human endeavor as well.

Again, you avoid important questions by referencing things that go back 80 years. I'll try to ask it in a simple sentence. Do you think the quality of education has gone downhill in the last 30 years?
You are fond of analogies.
How about if we pay people on car manufacturing assembly lines more money today because they are producing more vehicles then they did 80 years ago.
I know of lots of talented, persistent, patient assembly workers who were able to keep their eyes on the forest, and manufacture hundreds of cars well, despite the distractions and roadblocks that are around manufacturing, but every large human endeavor as well.

I guess you can make anything sound noble, huh?

Originally Posted by Donna2

Do you think the quality of education has gone downhill in the last 30 years?

No. (just another noble, accurate answer)

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

No. (just another noble, accurate answer)

Thank-you, but statistics prove you wrong.

Originally Posted by billethkid

Why all of a sudden (??) are the schools and cities heading for bankruptcy? We have weathered many, many recessions without the school city budgets getting to the point they are today....Until such time as governments approach the money and spending like we have to do ours at home....there will continue to be this problem of out of control spending...

The budgetary problems of all levels of government, from school districts to states, have occurred pretty rapidly, for the most part as the result of the worldwide financial crisis. But unlike the federal government, the lower levels of government are precluded by federal law from incurring debt to fund operaring deficits. Most commonly, adopting deficit-producing budgets is prohibited by state constitutions. They can sell bonds to finance certain revenue-producing capital projects, like airports, toll roads, schools, etc., but selling bonds to finance operaring deficits is not permitted, except at the federal level.

Local and state governments are generally prohibited from running deficits. If they borrow, it is supposed to be for capital projects such as building roads or schools. They can do some Enron-style accounting to make it look like they are borrowing to build a new library and then skim money off to pay operating costs, but a city or state cannot simply say “We’re going to spend more than we’re taking in.”

So the impending bankruptcy of many of the governmental entities smaller than the federal government is simply evidence of their efforts to cut spending not being deep or fast enough to keep up with declining tax revenues. Or alternatively, that the elected officials of those governments have permitted expenditures to exceed revenues, and now have no means to meet their obligations. That's the reason for the massive and dramatic budgetary cuts so widely reported on in places like California and Michigan. Some states still have a serious problem, but their political leadrrs have failed to address them--Illinois is a good example.