Our society has crossed a line

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  #16  
Old 03-31-2011, 04:54 PM
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I have a dog and a cat. For me, the age of the animal would certainly come into the picture and what sort of treatment would be involved and the prognosis. When my cat was young I spent probably around $3000 for tests, treatment etc to find out what was wrong with her. I would not have her put down without knowing what she had and if it was treatable. I'm so glad I went this route with her - she is a very happy 10 year old and worth every bit of the $3000 and much more to me. I am committed to my pets and won't give up on them (within reason).
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  #17  
Old 03-31-2011, 05:00 PM
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I agree with Taj44!
  #18  
Old 03-31-2011, 05:11 PM
thistrucksforyou thistrucksforyou is offline
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Originally Posted by batman911 View Post
I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2011, 05:16 PM
Bogie Shooter Bogie Shooter is offline
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Originally Posted by villages07 View Post
Related, but, slightly off-topic .... just yesterday the subject of Pet health insurance came up. A friend of mine with one large and one small dog pays approximately $25/month on doggie health insurance for the two. One pooch was having its teeth cleaned yesterday (under anesthesia) ... my friend said the charge would have been about $600 but will end up costing her about $100 out of pocket. She cited several other instances where it has come in handy.

That got me wondering how many pet owners invest in insurance. There seem to be so many routine and unusual medical requirements for pets that insurance would seem to be a good investment.

As to the $5K hip replacement, that was the owner's choice. If she didn't have the $5K to spend and went into debt for something she couldn't afford, that would be a bit irresponsible. We all have our own priorities.... who's to say what is right or wrong.
I grew up on a farm in Ohio. We had many dogs that lived long and healthy lives...................never had any of their teeth cleaned. Sometimes I think the vets see people coming and suggest a lot of optional procedures. I think somtimes it is all very silly.
  #20  
Old 03-31-2011, 06:33 PM
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Well, most of you will be surprised when I say that I agree with the title of this thread started by Taj44, "Our Society Has Crossed a Line."

According to the American Pet Products Association (APPA), $17 billion was spent on pets in 1994 as compared to almost $51 billion in 2010. http://www.americanpetproducts.org/p...strytrends.asp

Also, recent (recent to us oldsters) laws have been passed specifically protecting the rights of animals -- something that would have never been considered in our great grandfathers' times: The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act, 1960, and The Wild Life Protection Act in 1972. Currently, the ASPCA is promoting legislature to control the breeding of dogs and the protection of factory farm animals.

Yes, we have crossed a line. We are moving toward more civility. Our civilization is progressing. Mahatma Gandhi said, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated…I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by people from the cruelty of human kind.”

As we cross that line, and another, and another, and yet the next, let us recognize our failings, celebrate our newfound values, and scan the horizon for the next boundary to break.
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  #21  
Old 03-31-2011, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9-Lovers View Post
Well, most of you will be surprised when I say that I agree with the title of this thread started by Taj44, "Our Society Has Crossed a Line."

According to the American Pet Products Association (APPA), $17 billion was spent on pets in 1994 as compared to almost $51 billion in 2010. http://www.americanpetproducts.org/p...strytrends.asp

Also, recent (recent to us oldsters) laws have been passed specifically protecting the rights of animals -- something that would have never been considered in our great grandfathers' times: The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act, 1960, and The Wild Life Protection Act in 1972. Currently, the ASPCA is promoting legislature to control the breeding of dogs and the protection of factory farm animals.

Yes, we have crossed a line. We are moving toward more civility. Our civilization is progressing. Mahatma Gandhi said, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treatedI hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by people from the cruelty of human kind.

As we cross that line, and another, and another, and yet the next, let us recognize our failings, celebrate our newfound values, and scan the horizon for the next boundary to break.
Great thoughts, K-9. As usual.
  #22  
Old 03-31-2011, 07:38 PM
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Would I spend $5K for a hip replacement for a beloved pet? It depends on the age of the pet, the prognosis, what it would add to its quality of life. I had a cat that was feline soul mate. She knew just by how I opened the door what I needed. No one else in the house did, not even my husband -- I had to tell him. I never had to say a word to Obby, she just knew. She got a kidney infection due to inflamed gums (teeth cleaning was not common then). I tried to convince my husband to let me take her to U.C. Davis where they were just beginning to do kidney transplants on cats. He refused, saying the $3K was money that could be put to better use. I don't think I ever forgave him for not giving her a chance. It would have been money well spent even if unsuccessful. Sometimes you have to give your pets every possible chance.

That being said, I do understand TAJ's point. There is an incredible amount of waste for things that truly aren't necessary and frequently not wanted by an animal (what self-respecting dog wants to wear a "cute" dress when it is 95 degrees out?). No animal needs an $80 carrier; that's the human's ego talking.

The reality is that humans spend a lot of money for things that are purely status. Personally, I would love to see someone donate to to the charity of their choice the difference between a regular golf cart and a Yesteryear cart. To me, it is an ultimate waste of money. However, a very dear friend owns one and loves it to death. Would I deprive her of something that makes her so happy? Nope. Would I tell her that I thought she could have put that money to much better use? I sincerely hope not (and she doesn't ever read TOTV, so I'm safe saying it). The same is true of the money spent on animals. If someone can afford it and it gives them pleasure, especially the pleasure of helping a living creature have a better life, GO FOR IT!

Do what is right for you so long as it doesn't hurt another. If you can look at yourself in the mirror and say you did the right thing for you, then nothing else and no one else's opinion should matter.
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  #23  
Old 03-31-2011, 09:03 PM
whartonjelly whartonjelly is offline
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I suppose that dog therapy is a lot less expensive that hospital admissions, antidepressants, therapists, massages, hot tubs , spas and whatever one can spend to start feeling human again. A dog does all that. They are great stress relievers.

My dogs agree with everything I say !
  #24  
Old 03-31-2011, 09:20 PM
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Although K-9 Lovers posted the following in another thread, I think it explain well why a person might spend $5k to prolong the life of a beloved family dog:

Quote:
Originally Posted by K9-Lovers View Post
... When you spend time with a dog who knows you well, and whom you know well, there is a strong connection between the two of you. The two of you can communicate with each other with a quick glance, with the sound of your breath, or the tap of a finger or paw. It is a language only you two share.

When your dog is having fun, you can feel it in your heart. It is very fulfilling to bring joy and pleasure to a dog, because they express their feelings so openly.

[These things are hard to understand until one has spent] time getting to really know the heart, emotions and intelligent mind of a dog. Until that connection is something you have experienced, it will be impossible ...to understand.
Sure, age of the dog, the quality of life for its remaining time and other factors would be a consideration for anyone faced with this decision. Caring deeply for a pet and providing for its welfare does not diminish a person's caring for other people. If anything, quite the contrary I think.
  #25  
Old 04-01-2011, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch View Post
Would I spend $5K for a hip replacement for a beloved pet? It depends on the age of the pet, the prognosis, what it would add to its quality of life. I had a cat that was feline soul mate. She knew just by how I opened the door what I needed. No one else in the house did, not even my husband -- I had to tell him. I never had to say a word to Obby, she just knew. She got a kidney infection due to inflamed gums (teeth cleaning was not common then). I tried to convince my husband to let me take her to U.C. Davis where they were just beginning to do kidney transplants on cats. He refused, saying the $3K was money that could be put to better use. I don't think I ever forgave him for not giving her a chance. It would have been money well spent even if unsuccessful. Sometimes you have to give your pets every possible chance.

That being said, I do understand TAJ's point. There is an incredible amount of waste for things that truly aren't necessary and frequently not wanted by an animal (what self-respecting dog wants to wear a "cute" dress when it is 95 degrees out?). No animal needs an $80 carrier; that's the human's ego talking.

The reality is that humans spend a lot of money for things that are purely status. Personally, I would love to see someone donate to to the charity of their choice the difference between a regular golf cart and a Yesteryear cart. To me, it is an ultimate waste of money. However, a very dear friend owns one and loves it to death. Would I deprive her of something that makes her so happy? Nope. Would I tell her that I thought she could have put that money to much better use? I sincerely hope not (and she doesn't ever read TOTV, so I'm safe saying it). The same is true of the money spent on animals. If someone can afford it and it gives them pleasure, especially the pleasure of helping a living creature have a better life, GO FOR IT!

Do what is right for you so long as it doesn't hurt another. If you can look at yourself in the mirror and say you did the right thing for you, then nothing else and no one else's opinion should matter.
Red, thanks for your reply. I agree with you up to a point. I guess I would change the last sentence to read - "If you can look yourself in the mirror and say you used your money to do the right things, then nothing else matters". Of course our needs matter and have priority, and no one was ever saying, don't have a pet, don't spend money on them. We love our pets and they do bring us great joy. My feeling is, we need to branch out and help others whenever possible, and sometimes if we can give up a little of these materialistic and unncessary things, we can make the world a better place.
  #26  
Old 04-01-2011, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter View Post
I grew up on a farm in Ohio. We had many dogs that lived long and healthy lives...................never had any of their teeth cleaned. Sometimes I think the vets see people coming and suggest a lot of optional procedures. I think somtimes it is all very silly.
Ditto!
  #27  
Old 04-01-2011, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by K9-Lovers View Post
Well, most of you will be surprised when I say that I agree with the title of this thread started by Taj44, "Our Society Has Crossed a Line."

According to the American Pet Products Association (APPA), $17 billion was spent on pets in 1994 as compared to almost $51 billion in 2010. http://www.americanpetproducts.org/p...strytrends.asp
That jump hasn't been fueled so much by pet-cost inflation as by human shopping weakness.

"There's a whole lot of new ways to spend money that you don't need to," said Stephen Zawistowski, the executive vice president for national programs at the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in New York."
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...tsInCheck.aspx

The rep of ASPCA goes on to say all the other bling that people spend money on for their pets is not for the pet, its for you. The dog could care less if he has some of the high priced items.

As far a trying to prove that being a nation of people who spend too much money on their pets has somehow made us better human beings, I'm sorry, you lost me there. With all the money going up on spending costs for pets, I don't see a corresponding increase in charitable donations for human beings in need. And I still see our nation involved in wars and killing people overseas. Ghandi's quote referred to the way animals are treated. We've always treated our animals well. Over-spending on pets does not mean they are being treated more humanely, it just means we're spending more money that could be used elsewhere to help HUMANS.
  #28  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:30 AM
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We have pet insurance, have for a few years.

On the other hand we have not gone to extremes when our pets become ill - we have made that hard decision on when was the "right time" for their lives to end.

I had an employee once who went to the other extreme. He had an older dog that became ill. They spent thousands of dollars at the vet and when that vet said no more they traveled to Philadelphia for more extensive procedures. (I can't recall the name of the facility but it was well known for handling pets with serious illnesses.) To make a long story short the poor guy died and my employee was about $20,000 in debt. Plus the cost of the very fancy obituary in the local paper. The couple had no children and it was clear when reading the obit that that pet was their life. For us on the sidelines it seemed like they spent a lot of money on a pet that was at the end of his normal life expectancy. To them it was worth every penny to give the pet a chance for a little more time.
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:15 AM
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Just like humans, plaque and tartar on pets' teeth breeds bacteria that leads to heart disease and other medical problems. Brushing your dog's or cat's teeth keeps medical costs down in the long run. If you don't brush, then the annual teeth cleaning at the vet is very important.
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:31 AM
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Re: teeth cleaning...A lot of dogs, maybe even a majority of dogs, have teeth that dont present much of a problem, but many need brushing and/or specialized chews to keep their teeth clean and healthy...and others yet get tarter/plaque buildup no matter how what you do and this results in dental disease. Some of it is due to diet, some due to breed and some due to genetics.

Ive had many, many dogs who havent needed any intervention on my part (that I knew of). But I now have one dog who needs daily brushing to keep his teeth clean. My other dog, in spite of all my efforts, still needs a dental done every couple of years. Since hes a senior I also have to have blood work done to ensure hes up for the anesthesia. If there are extractions (which there usually are for him), thats an additional fee.

This isnt an extravagance on my part, nor is it money grubbing on my Vets part. Its a true medical requirement. At the least, poor dental health leads to bad breath and at the worst, poor dental health leads to an unhealthy dog and more Vet bills. Bacteria from (dirty or bad) teeth have a direct route into the bloodstream and are a major cause of heart disease in dogs.
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