Cart path closing

[bkcunningham1]

I read some post about rights of egress. There are some Florida Laws that may apply. Since this has been used over a number of years without any complaints from the owner. There could be a good legal case to remove the wall. What would be interesting is if the law suit would have more merit from outside the Villages. Internally the court may look at the a suit from inside the Villages as the owner's suing themselves. Lots of digging legally into what the Villagers sign when they purchased. In any case many dollars to settle in the courts if it came to litigation. Wish my expertise was the law as this would be an interesting fight. I always liked a good scrap now and then.

I really hope it doesn't go that far. I hope whoever put up the fence decides to be a hero and takes down the fence.

[Steve9930]

I really hope it doesn't go that far. I hope whoever put up the fence decides to be a hero and takes down the fence.

I have the same wish. Progress Energy backed down quickly when they tried to close off the path between Wal-Mart and Aldis once they realized the amount of traffic through the area. That should be settled soon and the path will probably be improved.

[redwitch]

None of this yet is ascertained as fact. It is all conjecture. But I see how a lot of people feel about other issues. I understand your surprise and frustration but what can now be done to make this a little easier?

None of us know FOR SURE why the path is closed but it is. Dr. Boogie, perhaps you will now drive your wife back and forth to work? Maybe car pools can be arranged. Maybe someone can drive others for a small fee? Redwitch, is there any other way, other than that path, any cut throughs beyond and behind? Perhaps when non drivers need to go to Lowes they can post on your neighborhood email? Also the same for visits to doctors? What percentage of people in those three villages do most think don't drive. Perhaps some church could make it an outreach project? With a few members of a church transporting people to and from maybe twice a week? Perhaps we TOTV'rs could arrange some kind of volunteer car transportation? Remember just that ONE area has been closed, those three older villages still have golf cart access to the rest of the entire villages property.

Gracie, this was the only golf cart accessible route. I doubt any of us want to constantly ask neighbors/friends/churches to give us a ride to all of the shops and services suddenly now inaccessible. How comfortable would you be asking someone to take you at least once a week to Lowe's?

Personally, I do believe that an easement was created and we have a large legal leg to stand on. Maybe my first calls tomorrow will be to a few attorneys I know, then to the media. (Lauren Ritchie may not be our friend, but she is most definitely not a friend of the Morses -- she may be a great resource in helping us on this one.) I'm not even sure it matters why the wall was put up. What matters is that the wall is up and the longer it stays up, the longer we lose any rights we may have to have it removed.

BK, why are we waiting to put out a petition? At whose request? What are they hoping to accomplish besides a possible delay tactic?

Removing the buffalo was well within the legal rights of the Morses but certainly wasn't handled well. Closing Orange Blossom again was within the Morses' rights but, again, wasn't handled well. Not sure this is entirely true this time but we shall see. Sadly, my gut feeling is that we will lose this one unless we can get that wall down within the week. Easements are tough to regain once lost.

[OldManTime]

I have the same wish. Progress Energy backed down quickly when they tried to close off the path between Wal-Mart and Aldis once they realized the amount of traffic through the area. That should be settled soon and the path will probably be improved.

All should keep in mind that the wall was built with the either the approval, or direct direction of Mark Morse. His motivation is not allowing villagers to shop outside "The Walls"............
Just past midnight during the night of August 12-13, 1961, East German soldiers and construction workers headed to the border of West and East Berlin" Does this sound familiar?

[DougB]

Just past midnight during the night of August 12-13, 1961, East German soldiers and construction workers headed to the border of West and East Berlin" Does this sound familiar?

Can you spell h y p e r b o l e ?

[bkcunningham1]

Dee, I am waiting to get additional information. It seems silly to ask someone to sign a petition without having more information. I would not sign a petition if the petitioner could not explain the basics of who did what and why. I do not know those answers yet. I want to do the right thing and move with logic not pure emotion. I want to give people an opportunity to answer questions so I will have answers.

[njbchbum]

i have just received an email from a rep of harbor chase of villages crossing in which it is stated that harbor chase did NOT request the building of the wall - they, too, are trying to find out who did - they looked forward to visitors from the villages - and they are upset, too! harbor chase of villages crossing is an ally in this matter!

[graciegirl]

Gracie, this was the only golf cart accessible route. I doubt any of us want to constantly ask neighbors/friends/churches to give us a ride to all of the shops and services suddenly now inaccessible. How comfortable would you be asking someone to take you at least once a week to Lowe's?

Personally, I do believe that an easement was created and we have a large legal leg to stand on. Maybe my first calls tomorrow will be to a few attorneys I know, then to the media. (Lauren Ritchie may not be our friend, but she is most definitely not a friend of the Morses -- she may be a great resource in helping us on this one.) I'm not even sure it matters why the wall was put up. What matters is that the wall is up and the longer it stays up, the longer we lose any rights we may have to have it removed.

BK, why are we waiting to put out a petition? At whose request? What are they hoping to accomplish besides a possible delay tactic?

Removing the buffalo was well within the legal rights of the Morses but certainly wasn't handled well. Closing Orange Blossom again was within the Morses' rights but, again, wasn't handled well. Not sure this is entirely true this time but we shall see. Sadly, my gut feeling is that we will lose this one unless we can get that wall down within the week. Easements are tough to regain once lost.

Redwitch. You make it seem like it is the only golf cart accessible path out of the old area. It is not. It is the only golf cart accessible path to a number of businesses on that side of 441/27 by Golf cart.

I don't see what the buffalo has to do with this.

Is there something wrong in waiting until the business offices open tomorrow and asking someone knowledgeable like Janet Tutt? What will happen if there is some reasonable and plausible answer to all this?

[DougB]

Just a thought since that all we have to go on as to why this "stupid" wall was put up. This goes back to the removed cowboy statue. Maybe some non-villager came on Village property via the golf cart path, got into an accident, and is now suing.

[redwitch]

Redwitch. You make it seem like it is the only golf cart accessible path out of the old area. It is not. It is the only golf cart accessible path to a number of businesses on that side of 441/27 by Golf cart.

I don't see what the buffalo has to do with this.

Is there something wrong in waiting until the business offices open tomorrow and asking someone knowledgeable like Janet Tutt? What will happen if there is some reasonable and plausible answer to all this?

Gracie, it is the only golf cart access to those specific medical buildings and doctors, the new urgent care center, Lowe's and several other unique shops and restaurants. And I don't think I've ever implied it was the only way out of the historic side.

The buffalo were removed in the middle of the night with no warning; the cowboy statue at Brownwood was removed in the middle of the night with no warning; Orange Blossom was closed with very little warning. It seems to be a pattern here -- remove it quickly and quietly; let Villagers complain, rant, plead but be assured it won't come back.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear the argument will be liability issues (it is not a smooth path). To me, that's the logical answer. It is done.

I don't know Florida law but my gut feeling is the only way that will be taken down is by a lawsuit for right of easement. I hope I'm wrong.

[co519]

Just a thought since that all we have to go on as to why this "stupid" wall was put up. This goes back to the removed cowboy statue. Maybe some non-villager came on Village property via the golf cart path, got into an accident, and is now suing.

If this were the case than a wall would have to be put up at every gate since any non Villager can access with just a push of a button.

[DougB]

If this were the case than a wall would have to be put up at every gate since any non Villager can access with just a push of a button.

I believe that path is the only way to enter The Villages by golf cart

[chuckinca]

and the only way to leave Villages property by golf cart.


.

[DougB]

That would be correct.

[chuckinca]

. . .

[chuckinca]

There used to be an automatic gate for carts there that just let in or out carts that had gate passes.

It was deactivated years ago but the gate mechanism was still in place without gate arms.

.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I don't understand why people are comparing this to the removal of buffalo or a cowboy statue. Those were little esthetic things that some people may have enjoyed. This wall creates a major lifestyle change for a lot of people. In some cases it may cause severe hardship.

[DougB]

I think (or at least hope) everyone understands how this affects those who need this path to reopen. Hopefully we will find out the answer today and get this resolved as soon as possible.

[bonrich]

Even if the wall was taken down because of laws permitting it, would the developer have to build and maintain a road or path for safe travel to and from the affected businesses and areas that would be accessed? Would it be his choice to abandon all maintenance? A thought not knowing the laws that would be affected or challenged.

[ttown]

What bothers me the most is the way that it was done..
No explanation
No input from residents
On a weekend when offices are closed
It seems that we are expected to take this action like compliant little people.
What will the Villages do now...say it was for our own good?

[gocubsgo]

I don't understand why people are comparing this to the removal of buffalo or a cowboy statue. Those were little esthetic things that some people may have enjoyed. This wall creates a major lifestyle change for a lot of people. In some cases it may cause severe hardship.

Exactly! This goes deeper than a silly statue. There are alot of people literally trapped by this thing. I can tell you that WESH TV is VERY interested in this story! It would be great to get this on the evening news.

[OldManTime]

The Developer caved in on another injustice back about 10 years ago when villagers with signs protested on 441/27.

[gocubsgo]

The Developer caved in on another injustice back about 10 years ago when villagers with signs protested on 441/27.

Maybe that's what we need to do..anyone interested?

[graciegirl]

I am convinced that since this just occurred that the new assisted living has decided they didn't want a cart path across the property they are using. If "they" took the wall down, perhaps you could prove that it was used in that way for so long that now it legally is a pathway...or you could be arrested for trespassing.

I can see that it truly is a great inconvenience for many but I did read on the online paper, Villages Voices that there is another muddy way out that would take you some back way to the places that are necessary. Does anyone want to comment on that? I think that I would think long and hard before I lawyered up. You can buy a used car that works for very low prices and get to where you want to go. You can spend a lot of money on lawyers and be out a lot of money and be right where you were at the beginning.

I understand your frustration. There is an answer here somewhere and it is probably a good idea to start with that.

[bkcunningham1]

I am convinced that since this just occurred that the new assisted living has decided they didn't want a cart path across the property they are using. If "they" took the wall down, perhaps you could prove that it was used in that way for so long that now it legally is a pathway...or you could be arrested for trespassing.

I can see that it truly is a great inconvenience for many but I did read on the online paper, Villages Voices that there is another muddy way out that would take you some back way to the places that are necessary. Does anyone want to comment on that? I think that I would think long and hard before I lawyered up. You can buy a used car that works for very low prices and get to where you want to go. You can spend a lot of money on lawyers and be out a lot of money and be right where you were at the beginning.

I understand your frustration. There is an answer here somewhere and it is probably a good idea to start with that.

Gracie, let's think logically. We will know more as the day goes on, but for now let's be level headed and try to get correct answers. How and why would the wall be on TV property if it belonged to someone else? Why would the assisted living advertise as golf cart accessible and have golf cart drivers sign a petition and even promise to pave the path and keep it opened for travel and then come onto TV property and erect a wall and put up signage saying the access is closed? Why would the assisted living put signs up directing cart traffic around the construction if they thought people were trespassing? Why would the businesses in the area have golf cart parking, yet, say people in carts are trespassing?

Maybe you'd be kind and copy and paste the story about the muddy path.

[redwitch]

The comparison to the buffalo and statue is simply comparing actions by the developer. I most definitely not putting this at the same level of necessity. As to maintenance, so far as I know, this path was never maintained by the developer or anyone else. If it rains, it is a muddy path. It is grooved and bumpy. It behooves you to drive slowly and carefully.

And, Gracie, if you read recent threads, someone did say they had contacted the assisted living people and they did NOT want the path closed -- the exact opposite.

[Bogie Shooter]

All should keep in mind that the wall was built with the either the approval, or direct direction of Mark Morse. His motivation is not allowing villagers to shop outside "The Walls"............
Just past midnight during the night of August 12-13, 1961, East German soldiers and construction workers headed to the border of West and East Berlin" Does this sound familiar?

Come on....................

[Bogie Shooter]

Dee, I am waiting to get additional information. It seems silly to ask someone to sign a petition without having more information. I would not sign a petition if the petitioner could not explain the basics of who did what and why. I do not know those answers yet. I want to do the right thing and move with logic not pure emotion. I want to give people an opportunity to answer questions so I will have answers.

Now this make sense.

[bkcunningham1]

Of course they didn't want the path closed. They are advertising the new facility with reference to the cart path. Even The Oaks Villages | Stonecrest | Del Webb | Lady Lake (http://www.theoaksat138th.com/medical_location.html) advertises that the facility has: "Accessibility with multiple access points including golf cart access"..."via the Villages and Stonecrest..."

[gocubsgo]

I am convinced that since this just occurred that the new assisted living has decided they didn't want a cart path across the property they are using. If "they" took the wall down, perhaps you could prove that it was used in that way for so long that now it legally is a pathway...or you could be arrested for trespassing.

I can see that it truly is a great inconvenience for many but I did read on the online paper, Villages Voices that there is another muddy way out that would take you some back way to the places that are necessary. Does anyone want to comment on that? I think that I would think long and hard before I lawyered up. You can buy a used car that works for very low prices and get to where you want to go. You can spend a lot of money on lawyers and be out a lot of money and be right where you were at the beginning.

I understand your frustration. There is an answer here somewhere and it is probably a good idea to start with that.

Gracie we all know how much you "love the Developer" and how fond you are of the Morse family but here's a few things...you aren't on this side of TV and therefore you can't relate to the enormous problems this thing has caused. Morse did this...sorry to break the news to you but this guy is a power hungry jerk who never cared about this side of TV. That's why our restaurant is gone, our street signs are falling apart, houses that are abandoned are ignored when complained about and now, we are walled up like Berlin! The wall is on Villages property, we ALL know who put it there and now we have to cover all our bases to get it removed.

[jannd228]

Why not set up an online petition:
iPetitions: Start a free online petition / Create a petition (http://www.ipetitions.com/start-petition?q=MSNAdCenter&campaign=10)

this one works the best IMHO
http://www.change.org/

[graciegirl]

http://www.**************.com/berlin-wall-irks-golf-cart-drivers-on-historic-side/


Whoops. It is called *************. The person who is writing this is Meta Minton who used to be managing editor of The Daily Sun.

[bkcunningham1]

Newly erected 'Berlin Wall' irks golf cart drivers on Historic Side of Villages - ************** (http://www.**************.com/berlin-wall-irks-golf-cart-drivers-on-historic-side/)

Thank you, Gracie. Did you ever find out who prints the publication you linked? The Villages Voice is a publication put out by The Villages Homeowners Association.

[bkcunningham1]

LOL. I see your edited response now.

[jane032657]

Perhaps jane032657 could help enlighten us as she is to be "opening" Harbor Chase!

I am actually not working at HarborChase. However, I do know that the company was going to provide golf cart parking and charging stations and was excited to be golf cart accessible for their own residents and for those visiting. I have shared this TOTV discussion with the company so they can respond on their own behalf. They also have their own sponsorship page on TOTV where you could ask them questions and post directly. They are a very good company with strong values and a commitment to the community and very much interested in all aspects of accessibility to their property.

There is a bigger land owner by Lowe's and HarborChase who has property for sale along 441 and owns a lot of property going behind where the golf cart path was. He has been there for a long time. This may be someone you want to contact to discuss relationships with The Villages and gain any insight he may have as to the wall. I believe he would know the details or at least the politics of this issue.

[nitakk]

I called the District Office today and the official response is..... they know nothing about the wall, had nothing to do with the wall and know of nobody to call about the wall. Did you expect anything different, people??

[tucson]

The best way to resolve this problem would(I think) be to create alot of press re; this issue. Contact a major news outlet who's always looking for a interesting human interest story, like this one. Because of the major PR thrust/campaign in TV to sell houses IS that they say it's The Friendliest Town in Florida & "golf cart assessible to everything " is contrary to what the CEO (Morse) has now done to all the homeowners that made him a billionaire.

[njbchbum]

this one works the best IMHO
http://www.change.org/

that's a liberal political/campaign website - hardly appropriate for our issue, doncha think?

on-line petitons are not the best of options since it cannot be verified that those who sign are villagers...not to mention what the webmaster can glean from a petition...i would never sign same, but will send a brief note to bk if/when appropriate. hope others will, too.

[bkcunningham1]

I also just got off the phone with the VCDD District Administration offices: 352.753.4508. She said they don't know what is going on and it is private property. Her response to anything I asked was that it is private property. She said maybe I could call Commercial Property and when I did, guess what? The response for every question I asked was, "It is private property."

When we spoke like humans to each other, in both offices, I told them that I knew they were directed to give the response and they both said, "yes."

When I said I would imagine that someone would be concerned that someone put up a wall along TV's wall and blocked access to The Villages Regional Hospital's campus, they both said they came in cold this morning and they really don't know anything about what is going on and were told to say it is private property to anyone who calls.

[jannd228]

that's a liberal political/campaign website - hardly appropriate for our issue, doncha think?

on-line petitons are not the best of options since it cannot be verified that those who sign are villagers...not to mention what the webmaster can glean from a petition...i would never sign same, but will send a brief note to bk if/when appropriate. hope others will, too.

I didn't mean to offend, I used it for positive value in the dance studio community, nothing political just a group of dance teachers concerned about "Dance Moms" and "Dance Moms Miami", which is owned by Disney.

The show regrettably is still on, the dancing did improve, but we did get our message to the execs using it. A lot of the ABC "stars" did come out in protest of the show, corporately directed.

It never hurts to try many ideas. One never knows which one is going to work best.

A young woman used it and got Bank of America to drop a $5 surcharge.

Just trying to be helpful :pray:

[Rickg]

If groups of people started walking with signs in front of the sales office I guarantee there would be answers.

[JeffAVEWS]

I think it's a pretty safe bet that the developer is the one who put up that wall. His motivation could be spite or greed. Spite because of the bad blood between him and the Harbor Chase people, or greed because he makes a lot more money selling new homes then he does from a sale in the historic side. The historic side homes are in direct competition with his new properties. If he can make properties there less attractive to perspective buyers he may sell more new ones. This may also be his reason for the closing of OBH CC restaurant and the Tiki bar.

[kirk1]

District Office referred me to The Villages Executive Office, phone number is 753-6760. I was advised they had no knowledge of the closure, advised they would call back with the info on who closed the path.

I think the more people that call, the sooner we will find out who is responsible.

[njbchbum]

I didn't mean to offend, I used it for positive value in the dance studio community, nothing political just a group of dance teachers concerned about "Dance Moms" and "Dance Moms Miami", which is owned by Disney.

The show regrettably is still on, the dancing did improve, but we did get our message to the execs using it. A lot of the ABC "stars" did come out in protest of the show, corporately directed.

It never hurts to try many ideas. One never knows which one is going to work best.

A young woman used it and got Bank of America to drop a $5 surcharge.

Just trying to be helpful :pray:

am sure you were - and glad it worked out for you! i worked too many years in the world of consumer affairs to trust much that i cannot see, touch and hear! big flag there with the info that can be retained by a political website and webmaster.

[OldManTime]

Resident meeting at the Radio station on Spanish Springs Town Square at 10 am

[janmcn]

If groups of people started walking with signs in front of the sales office I guarantee there would be answers.


Unfortunately, if people started walking with signs in front of the sales office, they would be escorted away by the Sumter County Sheriff's Office and told that this is private property.

This happened to people a few years ago who were attending an event in Lake Sumter Square, but they were of the wrong persuasion.

The only place picketing could take place is along a public road, like SR44 or SR441/27.

[njbchbum]

I think it's a pretty safe bet that the developer is the one who put up that wall. His motivation could be spite or greed. Spite because of the bad blood between him and the Harbor Chase people, or greed because he makes a lot more money selling new homes then he does from a sale in the historic side. The historic side homes are in direct competition with his new properties. If he can make properties there less attractive to perspective buyers he may sell more new ones. This may also be his reason for the closing of OBH CC restaurant and the Tiki bar.

jeff - where did you get that the developer is at odds with harbor chase?

[njbchbum]

Unfortunately, if people started walking with signs in front of the sales office, they would be escorted away by the Sumter County Sheriff's Office and told that this is private property.

This happened to people a few years ago who were attending an event in Lake Sumter Square, but they were of the wrong persuasion.

The only place picketing could take place is along a public road, like SR44 or SR441/27.

signs affixed to golf carts driving round and round the squares would work! easier on the body and out of the sun! :) and a bunch of signs on carts parked near the trolley tour departure area would do wonders!

oh how i wish i was there. this brings back so many memories of my '60s protest days! ;)

[bkcunningham1]

District Office referred me to The Villages Executive Office, phone number is 753-6760. I was advised they had no knowledge of the closure, advised they would call back with the info on who closed the path.

I think the more people that call, the sooner we will find out who is responsible.

I agree. I think they need to be flooded with calls. Polite. Civil. Courteous calls. Everyday. Not just today.

[TVMayor]

POA
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/siren.gif

Any question or topic can be brought up by residents in an open "town hall" discussion period.

The Next Poa General Membership Meeting:

Tuesday, August 20, 2013

POA GENERAL MEMBERSHIP MEETING
Third Tuesday of the Month - 7:00 p.m.
Laurel Manor Recreation Center

[johnboy]

I wasn't promised anything when I bought here - not a cart bridge over 441, not a tunnel under 466, not a causeway across Lake Sumter - but I have a right to feel aggrieved when something that was in place when I bought is suddenly taken away

with no alternative provided

with no notice or consultation

and probably solely for commercial reasons

I bought here because I could get everywhere I wanted in my golf cart without the need for a car - change that and you change the whole atmosphere of The Villages

The sad thing is that the developer of the new assisted living development on the way to Lowes seemed to go out of his way to ensure continued golf cart access - I even had high hopes that the whole route would eventually be on paved roads.


Many Villagers living south of 466 have probably never used the path that has been blocked, so may not be able to empathize with those of us who used it regularly as a part of our normal routine

It will be a major loss to us

I think there is a little over reaction on this issue. The affected people make it sound like now they will not be able to get to the grocery store or shop at Walmart. They can still go over the bridge and go to multiple grocery stores, Publix, etc., loads of stores like Target, Ace Hardware etc. The developer has made this a great place to live and that is why most of us have moved here, so support him. There may be other issues involved in this closing such as a liability.

[njbchbum]

called executive offices, dawn took name and number and told me she will have someone get back to me....but am not gonna hold my breath...looking forward to that call!

[jane032657]

jeff - where did you get that the developer is at odds with harbor chase?

There is no bad blood between The Villages and HarborChase. Again, as I said before, contact the person who owns all the land in front of and aside and behind HarborChase. This is who sold the property to begin with. He owns a lot of land there-I think he is hoping to sell to someone who will put up more offices, not sure on that but you will see the for sale signs out on 441. I think this is someone who will know more than anyone else what is going on and what the politics and issues are. It is not the new assisted living who is involved, I believe they are as stunned as all of us and again, all plans included golf cart accessibility, parking and charging stations.

[jannd228]

am sure you were - and glad it worked out for you! i worked too many years in the world of consumer affairs to trust much that i cannot see, touch and hear! big flag there with the info that can be retained by a political website and webmaster.

Granddaughter of a Boston politician here, I could be jaded but I am not. I am a technology integration specialist in MA (now retired). I know what is and isn't worth saving out there.

It looks like you are going to get answers this morning someone else posted about a meeting. Praying it all works out for all. I am moving to the Villages for a year to test the waters. I am not going to have a car just a golf cart, so I understand the need for all of this.

Best wishes,

[NoMoSno]

I think there is a little over reaction on this issue. The affected people make it sound like now they will not be able to get to the grocery store or shop at Walmart. They can still go over the bridge and go to multiple grocery stores, Publix, etc., loads of stores like Target, Ace Hardware etc. The developer has made this a great place to live and that is why most of us have moved here, so support him. There may be other issues involved in this closing such as a liability.

Many would rather not shop at the overpriced Publix's or Target, or the "have nothing" ACE hardware...

[njbchbum]

I think there is a little over reaction on this issue. The affected people make it sound like now they will not be able to get to the grocery store or shop at Walmart. They can still go over the bridge and go to multiple grocery stores, Publix, etc., loads of stores like Target, Ace Hardware etc. The developer has made this a great place to live and that is why most of us have moved here, so support him. There may be other issues involved in this closing such as a liability.

no, johnboy, i think you have missed the point...villagers can no longer leave the villages as they have been able to do for 20 yrs...can no longer access medical offices they use...and those without car/driver's license can no longer exercise their ability to shop at locations that are not under the thumb of the developer. it's not a bad place to live...but losing our restaurant, destruction of our country club, failure to enforce covenants re property maintenance and now the wall make it a less desireable place to live.

many of the residents have been here from early on and are very established in their life patterns and habits which are slowly being eroded from under them - sorta like a sink hole that is escalating in pace. trying to make significant changes is generally difficult for those who are of an advanced age....which many of our historic side residents are.

the events on the historic side show a total lack of compassion for our residents.

[gocubsgo]

The best way to resolve this problem would(I think) be to create alot of press re; this issue. Contact a major news outlet who's always looking for a interesting human interest story, like this one. Because of the major PR thrust/campaign in TV to sell houses IS that they say it's The Friendliest Town in Florida & "golf cart assessible to everything " is contrary to what the CEO (Morse) has now done to all the homeowners that made him a billionaire.

I have contacted all 3 major TV stations. WESH is VERY interested in this story!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think there is a little over reaction on this issue. The affected people make it sound like now they will not be able to get to the grocery store or shop at Walmart. They can still go over the bridge and go to multiple grocery stores, Publix, etc., loads of stores like Target, Ace Hardware etc. The developer has made this a great place to live and that is why most of us have moved here, so support him. There may be other issues involved in this closing such as a liability.

Really? I'd to hear you tell the people that work over there and don't drive that they're over reacting. Especially the ones who were at work and found this wall as they tried to return to their homes int he morning.

Or tell it to my wife who had the opportunity to go to work for another supermarket and turned it down because she just got promoted at Aldi.

I'd also like you to tell this to the people who no longer drive for whatever reason who have chosen the doctors in that medical building because they are able to get to them unassisted.

I'd like you to tell someone who does not drive and cannot get to the urgent care facility located on Villages property that has golf cart accessible for the past ten years that they are over reacting.

How about someone who has just made the decision to go into that new assisted living facility because they'd be able to visit their friends and family by going through that gate that has been there as long as they have.

The developer put in this cart gate and many of us made life decisions based on the fact that it was there.

It's pretty easy to sit there and say we're over reacting when you're not affected by it.

[tucson]

I have contacted all 3 major TV stations. WESH is VERY interested in this story!

That's great. Watch it take off from there....:-)

[gocubsgo]

Well said Dr W..it's easy for others to sit over on their 466 side and poo-poo all this. Those of us who are truly affected by this wall are the only ones who understand.

I had a urology appt this morning at 9:30 on the other side of the wall. Hubby took car to work at 6AM so guess what? I had to cancel because I can't get my golf cart there! There is no one to drive me because a) my street has emptied for the summer and b) I would never ask someone to drive me and then sit and wait an hour to drive me home or turn around and come pick me back up!

There's a perfect example of how this has inconvenienced everyone here on the north side!!

[Bogie Shooter]

I think it's a pretty safe bet that the developer is the one who put up that wall. His motivation could be spite or greed. Spite because of the bad blood between him and the Harbor Chase people, or greed because he makes a lot more money selling new homes then he does from a sale in the historic side. The historic side homes are in direct competition with his new properties. If he can make properties there less attractive to perspective buyers he may sell more new ones. This may also be his reason for the closing of OBH CC restaurant and the Tiki bar.

Isn't the restaurant being/going to be remodeled?

[Stitcher girl]

Driving on 441 yesterday and saw 2 carts driving on the grassy area in front of the businesses south of Lowe's. Wondered why. Now I know.
Aha....maybe that is the solution drive along in front of the businesses and create a new path......!!!

[njbchbum]

Isn't the restaurant being/going to be remodeled?

if someone can be found and contracted to do so! hasn't happened yet to my knowledge. tiki bar is still gone, too - no place to get a libation after golf!

[mulligan]

...

[Bogie Shooter]

no, johnboy, i think you have missed the point...villagers can no longer leave the villages as they have been able to do for 20 yrs...can no longer access medical offices they use...and those without car/driver's license can no longer exercise their ability to shop at locations that are not under the thumb of the developer. it's not a bad place to live...but losing our restaurant, destruction of our country club, failure to enforce covenants re property maintenance and now the wall make it a less desireable place to live.

many of the residents have been here from early on and are very established in their life patterns and habits which are slowly being eroded from under them - sorta like a sink hole that is escalating in pace. trying to make significant changes is generally difficult for those who are of an advanced age....which many of our historic side residents are.

the events on the historic side show a total lack of compassion for our residents.

Is the CC restaurant now going to be closed?

[JeffAVEWS]

I was at the Lady Lake Building Commission office at 9:15, The Building Commissioner had already been to the site. There is a problem as to exactly where the wall is built, it could be right on the county line. He told me there was no permit issued by his office and he is going to contact his counterpart in Sumter County. They are not happy about this.

[tucson]

It really bothers me the WAY the action of erecting this wall was done. It shows me alot of the heart/motives of the one that made that decision that created such a hardship to so many senior citizens. This could have been avoided if there was a posting on the wall of a notice to those approaching the wall and that have been using the path for years. An explanation of the reasons WHY, any plan B in the works for the residents, with a contact number and signature of the poster.

[njbchbum]

Is the CC restaurant now going to be closed?

let's just say no one is in a hurry to open it.

[njbchbum]

I was at the Lady Lake Building Commission office at 9:15, The Building Commissioner had already been to the site. There is a problem as to exactly where the wall is built, it could be right on the county line. He told me there was no permit issued by his office and he is going to contact his counterpart in Sumter County. They are not happy about this.

thank you jeffavews!

[Bogie Shooter]

let's just say no one is in a hurry to open it.

Thats different than "losing it". Want to know since I visit that restaurant too.

[mulligan]

I was at the Lady Lake Building Commission office at 9:15, The Building Commissioner had already been to the site. There is a problem as to exactly where the wall is built, it could be right on the county line. He told me there was no permit issued by his office and he is going to contact his counterpart in Sumter County. They are not happy about this.

I'll bet the permit was issued when the original wall was built.

[oot]

Well said Dr W..it's easy for others to sit over on their 466 side and poo-poo all this. Those of us who are truly affected by this wall are the only ones who understand.

I had a urology appt this morning at 9:30 on the other side of the wall. Hubby took car to work at 6AM so guess what? I had to cancel because I can't get my golf cart there! There is no one to drive me because a) my street has emptied for the summer and b) I would never ask someone to drive me and then sit and wait an hour to drive me home or turn around and come pick me back up!

There's a perfect example of how this has inconvenienced everyone here on the north side!!

I agree. When we looked at homes we looked at Stonecrest and ended up buying in the Villages (for multiple reasons) and because I thought that some day that might just put that gate up and we would be locked out. I NEVER thought they would put up a wall and block access so the villagers could not use an already constructed entry.

Many on this forum may not understand because it does not directly affect them. If they were to think about a place they currently go to by cart, and then think about if they were no longer allowed to go there (ie - stores by Southern trace, one of the squares) how they would feel. (and yes, I know those are on Villages property so it would never happen)...but what if it did? Put yourself in their shoes and try to understand their point.

[jannd228]

I have contacted all 3 major TV stations. WESH is VERY interested in this story!

Media works this way, local (The Villages), regional (the county you live in) state (the state you live in), national (USA)

Here is a suggestion, I know many of you are technology oriented, make a VLOG or a video of what you feel is happening to your community. I see wonderful points here from all perspectives. Write it out first, pro/con, make it into your own 2 minute (try to keep it 90 second) video. We are now in a graphic society, people respond not to print any more but pictures and videos. Make a YouTube (start with a Google gmail first) page and post it. Make sure your slant is the aging community, those who were here in The Villages first, believed, are used to 20 years of utilizing, do not object to change but need to be notified in an appropriate manner.

Here is an example. Two years ago a physician took a 10 minute personal phone call while removing a growth from my skull from his car repairman. He let me leave the hospital and walk through the lobby with blood dripping down the side of my face. I did exactly as I stated above, posted it to YouTube, sent the link to local and national news and the med board in MA. I didn't condemn, I simply asked 10 why/how questions, those that cannot be answered with a factual response. I understand he is now a surgeon in an undisclosed location no longer on Cape Cod. The vlog got 500,000 views before I took it down.

Try it, you will get more response if you think it out first and present the issues.

[gocubsgo]

Driving on 441 yesterday and saw 2 carts driving on the grassy area in front of the businesses south of Lowe's. Wondered why. Now I know.
Aha....maybe that is the solution drive along in front of the businesses and create a new path......!!! That be a good idea however Sumter Co sheriff is handing out $250 tickets if your caught doing that. Unreal!

[ttown]

What is the charge?

[Arctic Fox]

I think there is a little over reaction on this issue.

"There is only one thing worse than over reaction, and that is no reaction"

With apologies to Oscar Wilde

[njbchbum]

Media works this way, local (The Villages), regional (the county you live in) state (the state you live in), national (USA)

Here is a suggestion, I know many of you are technology oriented, make a VLOG or a video of what you feel is happening to your community. I see wonderful points here from all perspectives. Write it out first, pro/con, make it into your own 2 minute (try to keep it 90 second) video. We are now in a graphic society, people respond not to print any more but pictures and videos. Make a YouTube (start with a Google gmail first) page and post it. Make sure your slant is the aging community, those who were here in The Villages first, believed, are used to 20 years of utilizing, do not object to change but need to be notified in an appropriate manner.

Here is an example. Two years ago a physician took a 10 minute personal phone call while removing a growth from my skull from his car repairman. He let me leave the hospital and walk through the lobby with blood dripping down the side of my face. I did exactly as I stated above, posted it to YouTube, sent the link to local and national news and the med board in MA. I didn't condemn, I simply asked 10 why/how questions, those that cannot be answered with a factual response. I understand he is now a surgeon in an undisclosed location no longer on Cape Cod. The vlog got 500,000 views before I took it down.

Try it, you will get more response if you think it out first and present the issues.

great idea....youtube!

[janmcn]

I was at the Lady Lake Building Commission office at 9:15, The Building Commissioner had already been to the site. There is a problem as to exactly where the wall is built, it could be right on the county line. He told me there was no permit issued by his office and he is going to contact his counterpart in Sumter County. They are not happy about this.


Good for you, Jeff. It's doubtful the developer wants another investigation.

Aren't any of the people contacted this am, ie Janet Tutt etc, who know nothing about the wall, a little bit concerned that some unauthorized person has erected this wall on private property? Shouldn't they be calling the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate, since they know nothing about this being authorized?

[njbchbum]

I'll bet the permit was issued when the original wall was built.

without an expiration date?

[tucson]

Media works this way, local (The Villages), regional (the county you live in) state (the state you live in), national (USA)

Here is a suggestion, I know many of you are technology oriented, make a VLOG or a video of what you feel is happening to your community. I see wonderful points here from all perspectives. Write it out first, pro/con, make it into your own 2 minute (try to keep it 90 second) video. We are now in a graphic society, people respond not to print any more but pictures and videos. Make a YouTube (start with a Google gmail first) page and post it. Make sure your slant is the aging community, those who were here in The Villages first, believed, are used to 20 years of utilizing, do not object to change but need to be notified in an appropriate manner.

Here is an example. Two years ago a physician took a 10 minute personal phone call while removing a growth from my skull from his car repairman. He let me leave the hospital and walk through the lobby with blood dripping down the side of my face. I did exactly as I stated above, posted it to YouTube, sent the link to local and national news and the med board in MA. I didn't condemn, I simply asked 10 why/how questions, those that cannot be answered with a factual response. I understand he is now a surgeon in an undisclosed location no longer on Cape Cod. The vlog got 500,000 views before I took it down.

Try it, you will get more response if you think it out first and present the issues.

Jann, excellent ideas! What you've stated is very true in regards to our society now in terms of being visually influenced. That was a horrendous act on the part of the doctor you went to, I'm glad the Ma.Board discliplined him.

[Arctic Fox]

The developer has made this a great place to live and that is why most of us have moved here.

You are correct, JohnBoy - this is a great place to live.

And if we want to keep it that way we must ensure that what makes it great is not taken away, little by little.

There has been light criticism of bringing up the buffaloes and cowboy sculpture in this thread, but it is the many small things like these that make The Villages different and pleasant.

Let's keep it that way, and defend what we have here.

[Mama C]

Husband and I went to see the wall yesterday---the entry to the golf cart path is definitely closed! The wall looks just like a villa wall. We sat there a couple of minutes and several people came by to voice their opinions -- We are not happy, that is for sure....
We used that path a lot to access Lowes, Aldi's and Walmart plus there are several medical buildings there including The Villages Urgent Care Clinic (I think that is what it is called)
One person was taking pictures and said he was contacting Channel 9 today.
We also saw evidence on down the road where the golf cards had been going around the wall...

[ttown]

My husband just returned from the square...good turnout. Some had signs. The photographer from the Sun was there along with news people from Channel 6.

[NoMoSno]

Hello all- I am Jill Romie, the Director of Sales for HarborChase. Yes, there has been some issues with the land owner and the Villages going back, but we want everyone to know that we did not build the wall and believe that residents of The Villages should have a safe path to shopping which has been in our plans from the beginning.

Thanks for posting Jill !

[gocubsgo]

My husband just returned from the square...good turnout. Some had signs. The photographer from the Sun was there along with news people from Channel 6.


I'm glad that Channel 6 showed up!! Nothing like negative publicity to get action!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'm very disappointed that I had to miss the rally at the square. I had to pick up my wife from work.

[tucson]

Question; isn't there any public transportation here thats free or for a small fee?

[gocubsgo]

Question; isn't there any public transportation here thats free or for a small fee?

Maybe if Morse wants this wall to stay, he better invest in some city busses to take people to "the other side" ! Better yet, get that realtor trolley over here and have it pick up at certain spots every half hour.

[Indydealmaker]

I know someone at the Villages Sun and they were told NOT to mention this wall in the papers or in the media.(as of Sat night. With all the outrage, this may have changed this morning). This speaks volumes to me. This has Morse written all over it otherwise they would mention it.

Gracie, we know you "love the Developer" but the guy hit an all time low here on this one. Walling up a golf cart path because he's in a feud with the owner of a business on the other side and not giving a damn about the people it effects is rotten to the core.

And you know this for a fact?

[gomoho]

People who are not affected by this wall - please, please, please stop minimizing the inconvenience this is causing our fellow Villagers. We are all together in this and should have each other's backs. I live in Hadley if you're wondering.

[Bizdoc]

Does anyone know (or know of) Ronald Brown? If you look at the property map, any route from the wall to Lowe's has to pass over his rather large land holding (including the Ho Chi Minh Trail). He might be able to shed enlightenment. The Villages Medical Center's land holding is actually quite small.

[Steve9930]

Well its almost noon and does anyone have an official answer as to the who and why the wall was installed?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Jann, excellent ideas! What you've stated is very true in regards to our society now in terms of being visually influenced. That was a horrendous act on the part of the doctor you went to, I'm glad the Ma.Board discliplined him.

That is an excellent idea. I don't know how to make a vlog, but I think that it would be great to do it from the location of the wall with video of the close path included.

[jannd228]

People who are not affected by this wall - please, please, please stop minimizing the inconvenience this is causing our fellow Villagers. We are all together in this and should have each other's backs. I live in Hadley if you're wondering.

good point

[gocubsgo]

And you know this for a fact?

I think a direct quote from a reporter who was told this is what's going on is a fact...

[Indydealmaker]

I wonder how many Villagers on the Historic Side do not own a car? I know it has been posted on here that there are "lots" but that terminology is a bit lacking.

[bkcunningham1]

I was at the Lady Lake Building Commission office at 9:15, The Building Commissioner had already been to the site. There is a problem as to exactly where the wall is built, it could be right on the county line. He told me there was no permit issued by his office and he is going to contact his counterpart in Sumter County. They are not happy about this.

Someone spoke at the rally in front of Dunkin' Donuts and said the same thing.

There was a big crowd there. The police and community watch blocked the street. The manager of Dunkin' Donuts handed out coupons to everyone on the sidewalk. I thought that was a very smart business move.

There were clipboards circulating and people were signing their names to the blank paper, but there wasn't anything written on the "petition." I found the woman, Judy Reeves, who was circulating the paper for signatures and she said she was doing it for Elaine Dreidame, president of the Property Owners Association. According to Reeves, Dreidame said she may or may not use the signatures. Reeves said Dreidame said it will depend on what happens at the POA meeting.

I also spoke on the phone to Ronald Brown, the owner of the property which abuts TV's property. I told him we were discussing the issue here and gave me permission to quote him and to tell you what he told me. He said he didn't put up the wall and it isn't on his property.

"I was surprised and shocked. I have no control over that area and I'm very disappointed. I have no jurisdiction over that area. For 10 or 12 years, I've allowed everyone to cross my property without any problems," Brown said.

"I know who did it, but I'm not going to say. I think it was wrong and I wish they'd be open and honest and tell the truth. It is disappointing to hear. They must have known it would be a firestorm, so to speak. I'd like to get the facts out that it wasn't me. I had nothing to do with it."

[Arctic Fox]

I wonder how many Villagers on the Historic Side do not own a car? I know it has been posted on here that there are "lots" but that terminology is a bit lacking.

Why just the historic side?

I live near 466 but I don't own a car and my golf cart is the only way I can get there without relying on a neighbor or calling a cab every time I want to go.

[gocubsgo]

BK, was the media there? I heard Channel 6 and Fox out of Orlando were there with cameras?

[ttown]

It isn't just owning..or not owning a car. It's also driving ability and knowing your limitations. Rt441 is tough. Crossing the golf cart bridge is tough. This was a nice safe way to get to Drs and groceries for many residents. Why...why was the wall erected? Without notice. On a weekend.

[Indydealmaker]

Thank you Steve. I would want to target the residents of TV and perhaps a specific area of residents and I don't know how I'd do that online without having the email addresses of the residents or a way to notify them of an online petition.
Put an ad on TOTV. Contact each Village Block Captain and ask them to email their neighbors. They generally have all of their email addresses. Post notices in the grocery stores. Have volunteers pass out notices at the mail centers.

Whenever you you put up a website, it always critical that you find ways to drive traffic to it and gorilla marketing is always the best and cheapest method.

[bkcunningham1]

BK, was the media there? I heard Channel 6 and Fox out of Orlando were there with cameras?

Channel 9 WFTV was there. I didn't see Fox. The photographer for the Daily Sun was there. I asked if they were covering the story and he smiled and said, "Wellll, I don't know." He hung around and took some photos. Their offices are right there in Spanish Springs so they had to know something was going on.

[bkcunningham1]

Put an ad on TOTV. Contact each Village Block Captain and ask them to email their neighbors. They generally have all of their email addresses. Post notices in the grocery stores. Have volunteers pass out notices at the mail centers.

What is a Village Block Captain? I thought I'd go door to door and ask for volunteers from my friends to help.

[gocubsgo]

Channel 9 WFTV was there. I didn't see Fox. The photographer for the Daily Sun was there. I asked if they were covering the story and he smiled and said, "Wellll, I don't know." He hung around and took some photos. Their offices are right there in Spanish Springs so they had to know something was going on.

The chances of this appearing in The Sun are 0%...

[bkcunningham1]

The chances of this appearing in The Sun are 0%...


I don't know. Don't forget that had the architect for Disney to help design this wonderful place. They may come up with some creative press release for the Sun to print. Sorry. I couldn't resist.

[janmcn]

If Mark Morse thinks this is going to blow over in a week or two, he is sadly mistaken. Wait until the snowbirds start returning in a few months...all heck will break loose again.

We now know it wasn't the assisted living facility or Mr Brown that closed that wall. Who is left? When will Mr Morse be holding his press conference?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

It isn't just owning..or not owning a car. It's also driving ability and knowing your limitations. Rt441 is tough. Crossing the golf cart bridge is tough. This was a nice safe way to get to Drs and groceries for many residents. Why...why was the wall erected? Without notice. On a weekend.

Another issue is the expense of driving your car there versus the cost of driving your golf cart. I have an electric cart and the cost per mile is very low. My car gets about 20 mpg. The cost of driving my wife to work and going to Lowes, WalMart and the other 30 or so businesses over there just went way up.

[tucson]

If the person that put up the wall is reading these posts, I have a suggestion; this would be a great time to set up a bus line within TV's to provide transportation for those without a car to get to their jobs,doctors, shopping,etc,etc. Think of all the GOOD publicity for you and TV that would bring.

[PennBF]

This is all OUTRAGES. Where is Maureen O'Toole who is to represent the interest of the community. Has anyone seen any comments from her or her office. Has she visited the site to see the alleged terrible outcome of a rather selfish act..:confused:

[OldManTime]

I will bet my next newborn child there won't be an article in the Daily Sun, but then they could put some spin on it, and say it isn't there doing.

[foxmeadow]

I wish I had advance notice of the rally at SS. Whoever organizes the next one, please
put the info on a new post. I live south of 466, but I and many of my friends are in support
of our neighbors in the historic area. The next rally should be ASAP while the news stations
are involved. Don't give up; we're with you all the way.

[OldManTime]

What is a Village Block Captain? I thought I'd go door to door and ask for volunteers from my friends to help.
Each Village has a VHA Represenitive, which is controlled by guess who...Mark Morse.

[jannd228]

Here’s a thought, sorry for the posts I am not there yet but I am going to be soon. Someone get a Mail Chimp account (Send Better Email | MailChimp (http://www.mailchimp.com)), set up a simple email list, screen name here, email address, Village they live in, post it here and then create a campaign. The campaign can be sent out to all on list with instructions on how to share it to others. It works for me went from 25 to 1800 in about 2 weeks, you have more availability here, and from my Google Analytics stats yesterday you got your own referral to my web page, which would be great if you were all dance teachers. If you need help you can Facetime me.

I am not sure if this violates something here for this service, maybe; if it does my apologies.

JannD

[bkcunningham1]

Each Village has a VHA Represenitive, which is controlled by guess who...Mark Morse.

I hadn't heard them called Village Block Captains. Thank you.

[NoMoSno]

If the person that put up the wall

I suspect he he is basking in the sun, on his family yacht.
Grinning ear to ear....

[Bogie Shooter]

Put an ad on TOTV. Contact each Village Block Captain and ask them to email their neighbors. They generally have all of their email addresses. Post notices in the grocery stores. Have volunteers pass out notices at the mail centers.

Whenever you you put up a website, it always critical that you find ways to drive traffic to it and gorilla marketing is always the best and cheapest method.

This is a new term to me. There are block captains in TV?

[bkcunningham1]

Hello,
I am a representative of HarborChase of Villages Crossing. We want to let you know that HarborChase did not erect the wall in question and believe that everyone should have safe golf cart access to Lowes and other shopping outlets. We actually planned a golf cart path through the new HarborChase property from our initial concept.

We are currently looking in to who erected the wall and why. When we have more information, we will share it on this blog.

Thank you for taking the time to become a sponsor and for posting. Thank you.

[DAVIDPHS55]

While we do not live in the villages. We do most of our grocery shopping ,dining out, go to the farmers market, purchase from the venders at the squares, and purchase from the various retailers in the villages. With the golf cart access blocked we will no longer be able to help support theses business. While we will miss the villages it will be at the expense of the businesses in the villages. We are sure there are a great number of people living here that feel the same way.

[graciegirl]

Boyhowdy

[gocubsgo]

Channel 9 is planning to air this story on the evening news according to the lady at the TV station.
Hope Morse has a satellite dish on his yacht so he doesn't miss it!

[Indydealmaker]

What is a Village Block Captain? I thought I'd go door to door and ask for volunteers from my friends to help.

Each of the villages has neighborhood volunteers that notify their respective neighbors of parties and other pertinent issues.

[bkcunningham1]

Each of the villages has neighborhood volunteers that notify their respective neighbors of parties and other pertinent issues.

Ohh, I didn't know I was the Block Captain for our informal Hilltop Cocoon Club. LOL I know who our Block Captain is on our cul-de-sac. He's in New York for the summer. That is a new term that makes perfect sense when I think about it. Thank you.

[shankerman]

This is typical of The Villages.
Why in the world would they block cart access to their own Urgent Care Center and lab???
Must be someone decided they weren't getting any money from letting people use that path. The GREED so prevalent with the Morse family continues to boggle my mind.

[BettyCrocked]

As many of you have said, I don't understand why people who aren't affected by this continually post condescending (some downright snide) remarks.
Better yet, why don't they show up at one of the rallies and make their patronizing comments to the faces of the people who have been hurt by this!

[gocubsgo]

As many of you have said, I don't understand why people who aren't affected by this continually post condescending (some downright snide) remarks.
Better yet, why don't they show up at one of the rallies and make their patronizing comments to the faces of the people who have been hurt by this!

Thank you!! The condescending remarks from those that can jump in their carts and go is really uncalled for...that and the defense of who is behind all this.

[CFrance]

I think there is a little over reaction on this issue. The affected people make it sound like now they will not be able to get to the grocery store or shop at Walmart. They can still go over the bridge and go to multiple grocery stores, Publix, etc., loads of stores like Target, Ace Hardware etc. The developer has made this a great place to live and that is why most of us have moved here, so support him. There may be other issues involved in this closing such as a liability.

Many would rather not shop at the overpriced Publix's or Target, or the "have nothing" ACE hardware...

I agree with you, NoMoSno. Of course people will still have access to grocery stores and hardware stores, but not the ones they have been used to getting to more easily and faster for the last 20 years--their favorite, affordable places to shop. Not to mention those who must get to work or to their doctor on a cart, and now cannot. So I think johnboy's post is an oversimplification. I feel for these people and do not think they are over reacting.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I wonder how many Villagers on the Historic Side do not own a car? I know it has been posted on here that there are "lots" but that terminology is a bit lacking.

What's the difference? If it affects ten people in a way that they will lose their jobs or not be able to get to their doctors, at the very least, an explanation is due.

If there is some legitimate reason such as safety then I can accept that. If this is simply to spite another business, then I really resent being used as pawn in someone's little chess match.

[capecodbob]

This is typical of The Villages.
Why in the world would they block cart access to their own Urgent Care Center and lab???
Must be someone decided they weren't getting any money from letting people use that path. The GREED so prevalent with the Morse family continues to boggle my mind.

WOW!!!!
This post should get the issue resolved! :crap2:

[Bogie Shooter]

Thank you!! The condescending remarks from those that can jump in their carts and go is really uncalled for...that and the defense of who is behind all this.

Who is behind this?

[Halibut]

As many of you have said, I don't understand why people who aren't affected by this continually post condescending (some downright snide) remarks.

Perhaps they're being rewarded because so many choose to engage them by replying?

[Steve9930]

What's the difference? If it affects ten people in a way that they will lose their jobs or not be able to get to their doctors, at the very least, an explanation is due.

Every Villager should be upset whether it directly effects them or not. Here is an action taken with total disregard of the people it will impact. Its a slap in the face to everyone. Just the way it was implemented is a red flag.

[BettyCrocked]

Perhaps they're being rewarded because so many choose to engage them by replying?

Yeah, I'm not too good at ignoring rudeness. I probably spend too much time having battles of wit with unarmed people.

[redwitch]

Well, have called VCDD, TV execs, TV sales office, every staff member I know. I've been told they aren't allowed to comment. Period, end of conversation. This really stinks!!! The skunk is definitely showing his stripes on this one.

Have a couple of emails out re easement laws. Will let all know if I get an answer. Maybe another class action suit will open Morse's eyes that he may own the land but he doesn't own the people or the community.

[downeaster]

Every Villager should be upset whether it directly effects them or not. Here is an action taken with total disregard of the people it will impact. Its a slap in the face to everyone. Just the way it was implemented is a red flag.

Well said, Steve.

I think it is important to mention this action, while not directly effecting everyone, certainly indicates what can effect them in the future. For instance, there are many paths leading to non Villages property that could be closed in the same manner as the subject property.

It has been said on this forum that we do not live in a democracy in The Villages but we live in a benevolent dictatorship. This action may indicate the end of the benevolence

It does effect all of us.

[Warren Kiefer]

Who is behind this?

So many post and so much confusion!! Many post not even relative to the issue at hand. Who erected the wall should be an easy answer. I am sure the property line is defined, so is the wall on the Developers property or on the assisted care facility. Why would the "care" facility have a cart path in their plans aand actually build a cart path if they intended to erect a wall ??? Who is to gain and who is to lose??? All the stores and facilities up the WalMart way are guaranteed to gain business, The developer will tend to lose some business mainly to Cracker Barrel and Lowes. I don't see a lot of direct loss to the Developer owned businesses but more likely to those businesses within the Villages boundaries. These are most likely the businesses that are probably screaming their heads off and caused the developer to act without regard to the wishes of the residents.

[Applepie]

I live south of 466 however, I am concerned about the "wall". I have what I think might be a soluation to the problem. The 3 groups which the wall affects are- TV, especially the historic side, Harbor Chase, and Spruce Creek. Our golf cart trails are not public streets. They are owned by the developer and the residents of TV. They are not like our streets where any one may travel (we are not a gated community). Why not install a gate like at Hickory Head Hammock. The gate could only be triggered by our gate cards. There would be no button to push. ONLY villages residents would have the card. This would keep the people from Harbor Chase and Spruce Creek out. I know people will say I am being snobby by not letting Spruce Creekers in, However they do not pay for the upkeep of the trails, we do. Our trails are getting crowded as TV gets bigger. Maybe it's time to limit access to other communities. The people from the outside are still welcome to dine and shop only they must use public roads not our private golf card trails.

[gocubsgo]

Well, have called VCDD, TV execs, TV sales office, every staff member I know. I've been told they aren't allowed to comment. Period, end of conversation. This really stinks!!! The skunk is definitely showing his stripes on this one.

Have a couple of emails out re easement laws. Will let all know if I get an answer. Maybe another class action suit will open Morse's eyes that he may own the land but he doesn't own the people or the community.

I wrote to the TV stations last night. That seemed to do some good. All we can hope for is the negative publicity and maybe a surrender?

Anyone working for TVillages can't comment for fear of losing their jobs. How sad...

[janmcn]

Well, have called VCDD, TV execs, TV sales office, every staff member I know. I've been told they aren't allowed to comment. Period, end of conversation. This really stinks!!! The skunk is definitely showing his stripes on this one.

Have a couple of emails out re easement laws. Will let all know if I get an answer. Maybe another class action suit will open Morse's eyes that he may own the land but he doesn't own the people or the community.



Did the VCDD, TV execs, TV sales office, and other staff members tell you who told them they aren't allowed to comment?

Why did Gary and/or Mark Morse wake up one day and say 'you know those people over there just have it too nice. What more can we do to those people'? We've closed the Silver Lake restaurant, we've closed the OBCC restaurant and tiki bar, we've closed the church on the square (where many of these people have worshiped for years).

There is just no logical explanation for this action...only silence. Harold Schwartz would roll over in his grave if he knew how many of his old friends are being treated.

[gomoho]

I live south of 466 however, I am concerned about the "wall". I have what I think might be a soluation to the problem. The 3 groups which the wall affects are- TV, especially the historic side, Harbor Chase, and Spruce Creek. Our golf cart trails are not public streets. They are owned by the developer and the residents of TV. They are not like our streets where any one may travel (we are not a gated community). Why not install a gate like at Hickory Head Hammock. The gate could only be triggered by our gate cards. There would be no button to push. ONLY villages residents would have the card. This would keep the people from Harbor Chase and Spruce Creek out. I know people will say I am being snobby by not letting Spruce Creekers in, However they do not pay for the upkeep of the trails, we do. Our trails are getting crowded as TV gets bigger. Maybe it's time to limit access to other communities. The people from the outside are still welcome to dine and shop only they must use public roads not our private golf card trails.

I think the point was more to keep Villagers in not outsiders out.

[Serenoa]

I wrote to the TV stations last night. That seemed to do some good. All we can hope for is the negative publicity and maybe a surrender?

Anyone working for TVillages can't comment for fear of losing their jobs. How sad...

What? No Villages "deep throat"?

Seems like SOMEONE would be willing to speak...... off the record.


please note: not making light of the situation at all. sincerely hope it gets resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[wereback]

Has anyone though about the people that live by that path and on that street is it possible that the path has been closed that they may have some peace.

[Happy Villager 1]

I live south of 466 however, I am concerned about the "wall". I have what I think might be a soluation to the problem. The 3 groups which the wall affects are- TV, especially the historic side, Harbor Chase, and Spruce Creek. Our golf cart trails are not public streets. They are owned by the developer and the residents of TV. They are not like our streets where any one may travel (we are not a gated community). Why not install a gate like at Hickory Head Hammock. The gate could only be triggered by our gate cards. There would be no button to push. ONLY villages residents would have the card. This would keep the people from Harbor Chase and Spruce Creek out. I know people will say I am being snobby by not letting Spruce Creekers in, However they do not pay for the upkeep of the trails, we do. Our trails are getting crowded as TV gets bigger. Maybe it's time to limit access to other communities. The people from the outside are still welcome to dine and shop only they must use public roads not our private golf card trails.

Applepie I couldn't agree more! There are also people living in Lakeside Landings that illegally cross 472 onto Promise Healthcare property and enter via the gate that crosses the Belmont Golf Course. All they do is manually
lift the gate. I had sent an e-mail more than four years ago to Janet Tutt regarding residents having to pay to maintain the multi-model paths while nonresidents access them for free. At that time I was told the developer was in talks with the property owner on the other side where this wall has now been erected but nothing ever came of it. If non residents want to use
the multi-model paths then the counties should take them over like they do our roads and everyone pays for them out of their taxes. I have used the
dirt trail to go to Lowe's and my doctor but I will now use the car.

[graciegirl]

Did the VCDD, TV execs, TV sales office, and other staff members tell you who told them they aren't allowed to comment?

Why did Gary and/or Mark Morse wake up one day and say 'you know those people over there just have it too nice. What more can we do to those people'? We've closed the Silver Lake restaurant, we've closed the OBCC restaurant and tiki bar, we've closed the church on the square (where many of these people have worshiped for years).

There is just no logical explanation for this action...only silence. Harold Schwartz would roll over in his grave if he knew how many of his old friends are being treated.

"They" didn't close the Orange Blossom restaurant. The restaurant who was leasing the facility failed to renew the lease. I am sure that the Morses want to rent it to a new restaurant business, greedy and dispicible as they are. If it is sitting there empty..they aren't getting rent money. Could it have been that the restaurant folks weren't making as much money as they wished, or their business had dropped for some reason?

The wall is the issue. Maybe you are right and Gary is an ugly greedy person. Those of you who are posting that yet haven't moved here, maybe you should rethink it.

I hope the answer will not be that we will never know why. Because many are sure that they do know why.

[red tail]

Has anyone though about the people that live by that path and on that street is it possible that the path has been closed that they may have some peace.

see post #106

[BettyCrocked]

"They" didn't close

The wall is the issue. Maybe you are right and Gary is an ugly greedy person. Those of you who are posting that yet haven't moved here, maybe you should rethink it.

I hope the answer will not be that we will never know why. Because many are sure that they do know why.

Bless your heart. I don't need to rethink anything. I spend at least one week per month at my home there and this issue does have an impact on me.

[Steve9930]

Applepie I couldn't agree more! There are also people living in Lakeside Landings that illegally cross 472 onto Promise Healthcare property and enter via the gate that crosses the Belmont Golf Course. All they do is manually
lift the gate. I had sent an e-mail more than four years ago to Janet Tutt regarding residents having to pay to maintain the multi-model paths while nonresidents access them for free. At that time I was told the developer was in talks with the property owner on the other side where this wall has now been erected but nothing ever came of it. If non residents want to use
the multi-model paths then the counties should take them over like they do our roads and everyone pays for them out of their taxes. I have used the
dirt trail to go to Lowe's and my doctor but I will now use the car.

If the issue was a non-resident using the path then a proper gate system should have been installed to only let Village Residents have access. However this punishes the Village resident living in the historic section. I believe there was more village traffic then non-village traffic using this entrance. Remember there is less incentive for a Stoncrest or Spruce Creek resident to come all the way over to the Villages as they have direct access to Walmart, Aldis, Cracker barrel, Lowes, and the doctors offices. What else would they need on a daily basis.

[Bogie Shooter]

Did the VCDD, TV execs, TV sales office, and other staff members tell you who told them they aren't allowed to comment?

Why did Gary and/or Mark Morse wake up one day and say 'you know those people over there just have it too nice. What more can we do to those people'? We've closed the Silver Lake restaurant, we've closed the OBCC restaurant and tiki bar, we've closed the church on the square (where many of these people have worshiped for years).

There is just no logical explanation for this action...only silence. Harold Schwartz would roll over in his grave if he knew how many of his old friends are being treated.

That isn't true is it??

[Peachie]

As many of you have said, I don't understand why people who aren't affected by this continually post condescending (some downright snide) remarks.
Better yet, why don't they show up at one of the rallies and make their patronizing comments to the faces of the people who have been hurt by this!


Maybe they're irritated by the perception propagated by many of the people adjacent to the property which was trespassed, that they are the ONLY people with special needs, requirements and transportation in The Villages and the only people deserving of special arrangements. It would make our lives so much easier down by 466A to make holes in many fenced areas of The Villages to access facilities in an illegal way so we could give our cars away and have a 5 minute ride to work or shop in stores.

It is a hardship, no doubt, to the people who used the shortcut on a regular basis. But what's amazing here is that when talking to different people over the years that lived in this area, they expressed hope that the hole in The Villages wouldn't be closed. People knew it was a possibility but were willing to take the risk. And that opening hasn't been like that for 20 years, there was a gate there for carding; hmmm..... wonder how many times that gate was damaged so people could enter The Villages property without passes and The Villages stopped repairing it because of this. The opening was only to allow Villagers into the Villages medical businesses, period, NO FURTHER.

Now the Morse's are contending with businesses building adjacent to their property that are advising people, "you will have access to The Villages". Large pieces of property are waiting development in this area which could be more dense residential living.

I believe shortly Spruce Creek residents will be allowed to cross 441/27 in golf carts and this will also supply them direct access into The Villages residential areas. Spruce Creek is gated and we can't access them without getting in a car or street legal and driving there. Stonecrest is also walled up tighter than a drum for entering but their residents are advising us that we'd better let them use our community paths and bridges or else.... Really?

The liability and implications of The Villages allowing access to non-Villagers through that terrible trail, I would think, are huge. It was a short-cut that has been removed and rather than blame The Villages, why not take a look at the neighboring property owner who brought this upon you. He could get busy and build some highway bridges with his money to make life easier for all of us. It's not up to the Morse's to provide private access to The Villages for surrounding developments.

This "dictator" garbage gets a little old, this is an enclosed community and a gap has been repaired.

Most of all, remember many of us in The Villages struggle with issues that make everyday living difficult. Problems don't start and end at the Historic section. Advising the rest of The Villagers to stay out of it and to suck it up because the Historic section should have special treatment over the rest of The Villagers is divisive.

I feel the wall should stand at this point, it's time to close the hole. I wish the wall could be placed at the end of the medical complex so people could easily access those facilities. Perhaps if all the raging and ranting were directed at finding a solution for transportation to the stores and back, people would less frightened and more hopeful. And I do hope good remedies are found for another life change.

[wereback]

I can't believe what people are saying about something they have no clue about I have lived here long enough to watch Mark Morse grow up he in a nice person all the things being said kind of say what kind of people are moving here lately. Before you write something and send it read what you are writing before you send

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

For those of you who are talking about something you know nothing about, here is a photo of the cart gate in question.
As you can see, it is not some "hole in the fence" short cut to some banned area. It is a cart gate, similar to many other gates placed throughout the Villages to allow carts to get to areas without using the highways. There is another one very similar to it that goes from Tarsson to the post office.

This gate was built a long time ago to allow access to that area. Now it have been closed with no explanation.
If there is a good reason for it's closing I think that Villages residents are owed, at the very least an explanation.
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii564/Winston1027/CartPath3_zpsd27da1ba.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/Winston1027/media/CartPath3_zpsd27da1ba.jpg.html)

[nitakk]

Ashamed??? I think not! I was so proud to see the crowd at SS this morning - probably about 200 people with signs and protesting the wall, which is a right all Americans have. Channel 9 was there and the POA president said we will try to reach an amicable agreement with the developer and if not, they will pursue legal options. VHA?? Nowhere in sight (what a surprise huh?). The Daily Sun photog was there and I asked him directly if the newspaper would finally report this - he said all he could do was submit the pictures. And by the way, both my husband and I left our numbers with the Executive Offices and were promised a call back today with why the wall was put up - no call. If there is shame in this whole action, it's all on the developer.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I can't believe what people are saying about something they have no clue about I have lived here long enough to watch Mark Morse grow up he in a nice person all the things being said kind of say what kind of people are moving here lately. Before you write something and send it read what you are writing before you send

I don't know any of the Morse's. I have only lived in the Villages for a little over a year. But, I have defended the Morse's against attacks made ny people on this forum simply because they made a lot of money by providing so many people with a wonderful life. I don't begrudge them anything that they have earned. In fact I admire the people who take the chances and invest the money and are successful. People who I've spoken with that know the Morse's have told me the same thing that you are saying about them. That they are fine people and I have no about that.

That being said, it is quite obvious that this wall is on Villages property. It seems that it would have to be either put there by order of the Morse's or at least with their knowledge.

Maybe there is a good reason for that wall being built. Whatever the reason, I think that the residents of the Villages deserve at the very least, an explanation.

[gocubsgo]

Great photo Dr W...for those of you who have no clue as to the seriousness of this situation (and there are quite a few I see), the wall was put up where it says Cart Trail on the photo.

All of you who are laughing at this and calling us whiners, I want you over there on the south side to imagine a wall going up and blocking off Colony Plaza with no way to get around it. I'm tired of everyone thinking this a "get over it" situation.
This thing was slapped up in the middle of the night. That doesn't say up and up to me...that says sneaky. NO notice and no regard for the fact that residents were going to be stuck on the other side trying to get in after working all night! It's cold, cruel and harsh. I missed a DR appt this morning because my husband took the car and I couldn't get over there! That's not "you people have no clue"...that's reality and reality for us sucks right now.

[chuckinca]

If the issue was a non-resident using the path then a proper gate system should have been installed to only let Village Residents have access. However this punishes the Village resident living in the historic section. I believe there was more village traffic then non-village traffic using this entrance. Remember there is less incentive for a Stoncrest or Spruce Creek resident to come all the way over to the Villages as they have direct access to Walmart, Aldis, Cracker barrel, Lowes, and the doctors offices. What else would they need on a daily basis.


Panera Bread coffee and danish!

Also, there was a cart gate there but it was removed.



.

[rhondac]

There was a gate years ago that Villages Residents used their cards to enter. Knowing other communities residents use The Villages doggie park and our multi-modal paths,etc.. I often wondered why it wasn't fixed, especially when I heard that some non-residents were golfing after hours....... I am still a happy Villager and I love my home in CC Hills, but we forsee many changes as build out completes. I have used the path numerous times in my 9 years here. My granddaughter LOVED that SLOW bumpy ride, with giggles all the way.....we would take a relaxing break at the picnic tables in the small parklike setting along the route looking for butterflies and cardinals in the pretty flowers, then we would grab some pretty flowers to plant at Lowes and enjoy an ice cream at Sonic. Walmart for some girly shopping time. Not that this will hinder our enjoyment, but like the buffalo, this child will be saddened and will question why. I have seen restaurants close and remain vacant for years. Our Hilltop Country Club is now closed. Who knows for how long. I know Harold Schwartz would not approve of many changes that have occured through the years. If and when the music stops we will head to The Keys...........My 1st thought about this was for the employees of those businesses (yes, some residents have to work and a spouse has just a golf cart)) and our elderly neighbors that are on fixed incomes that relied on this path for whatever reason.............IMHO....this isn't over.......Applepie I couldn't agree more! There are also people living in Lakeside Landings that illegally cross 472 onto Promise Healthcare property and enter via the gate that crosses the Belmont Golf Course. All they do is manually
lift the gate. I had sent an e-mail more than four years ago to Janet Tutt regarding residents having to pay to maintain the multi-model paths while nonresidents access them for free. At that time I was told the developer was in talks with the property owner on the other side where this wall has now been erected but nothing ever came of it. If non residents want to use
the multi-model paths then the counties should take them over like they do our roads and everyone pays for them out of their taxes. I have used the
dirt trail to go to Lowe's and my doctor but I will now use the car.

[Arctic Fox]

This gate was built a long time ago to allow access to that area. Now it have been closed with no explanation.
If there is a good reason for it's closing I think that Villages residents are owed, at the very least an explanation.

And that, really, is the heart of the matter, good doctor.

Any attempt to propose an "innocent" reason as to why the wall was built - liability issues, closing a gap, keeping out pesky neighbors, reducing street noise for a handful of residents - has to include an explanation as to why it was done at 6 o'clock on a Saturday morning.

I can't believe that the developer was having a hard time sleeping on Friday night and suddenly said to his wife, "You know that gap that has been in existence for twenty years? I really need to get that fixed or the residents of my closed community will be nagging me to do so. Let me call my contractor right now so he can pre-cast a suitable wall section before dawn".

[njbchbum]

peachie -

if you knew the history of this cart path you would know 1] there was no trespass as the assisted living facility and mr. brown went out of their way to redirect the path when construction of harbor chase began; 2] thus, crossing the land was done with permission = no trespassing; 3] irritation does not stem from a feeling of privelege but from the unannounced loss of a 20 yr crossing upon which residents had come to rely.

where does your info that the path was only to allow access to medical offices come from? if that was so, why is it that access has been lost now rather than having left the area accessible and walling off the area around the offices?

on what info do you base your belief that spruce creek residents will shortly be allowed to cross 441/27?

what liability/implications does the villages have if people drove the cart path not on their property? as mentioned before, the owner of that property facilitated the use of his land for travellers...he had no fear of liability apparently. and he has told a poster here that he had NOTHING to do with the building of the wall. [see previous post] so your statement that he brought this upon us does not seem to be correct.

the villages is not an 'enclosed community' nor a gated community; roads are public and anyone can push a button to get a gate to raise...not to mention that the griffin ave gate to the historic side does not even have a gate.

you are, however, correct that the problem does not start/end with the historic destrict - others from throughout the villages used that access point and are also impacted adversely.

[mulligan]

This is typical of The Villages.
Why in the world would they block cart access to their own Urgent Care Center and lab???
Must be someone decided they weren't getting any money from letting people use that path. The GREED so prevalent with the Morse family continues to boggle my mind.

I'm puzzled. Where do you see greed, as opposed to sound business practice ???

[njbchbum]

I'm puzzled. Where do you see greed, as opposed to sound business practice ???

where do you see 'sound business practice' in the building of a wall that prevents villagers in getting to villages facilities?

[Bogie Shooter]

This is typical of The Villages.
Why in the world would they block cart access to their own Urgent Care Center and lab???
Must be someone decided they weren't getting any money from letting people use that path. The GREED so prevalent with the Morse family continues to boggle my mind.

Welcome to TOTV.

[mulligan]

where do you see 'sound business practice' in the building of a wall that prevents villagers in getting to villages facilities?

Look around at 100,000 + people living in a fairly nice environment. Several hundred successful businesses providing jobs for thousands. Home sales holding steady or rising when the rest of the country is struggling. Looks fairly sound to me.

[Bogie Shooter]

We were just there in our cart. There must have been 15-20 carts sitting there AND a couple stuck on the other side of this wall!!! These people worked at Walmart and Lowe's and got walled out! How are they supposed to get home now? This is a golf cart community. One woman was in tears because she doesn't have a car and that's where her Dr is !

A VERY bad idea that no doubt will bring in a lot of calls and complaints. What was TV thinking doing this???

Just came back from Lowe's...in my car...and out of curiosity I drove past there. There are 6 people stuck on the other side, one has called the police and on TV side I counted 26 carts lined up and tempers flaring. No warning, nothing in the precious Villages Sun and no notice...just slapped up the wall and stuck a sign in the ground. Wanna take bets on how long it is before we see graffiti on that damn thing?

If the hospital is worried because people are migrating to Ocala for health care, then why put up a wall and block everyone from going to the medical buildings on the other side??

One lady told me they put up that sign at 7AM this morning. I was able to get through 3 days ago and that sign was not there.

What about the poor woman this morning who had no car and couldn't afford a taxi ? What is she supposed to do? Bum rides from neighbors everytime she wants to shop or go to the Dr?

Great photo Dr W...for those of you who have no clue as to the seriousness of this situation (and there are quite a few I see), the wall was put up where it says Cart Trail on the photo.

All of you who are laughing at this and calling us whiners, I want you over there on the south side to imagine a wall going up and blocking off Colony Plaza with no way to get around it. I'm tired of everyone thinking this a "get over it" situation.
This thing was slapped up in the middle of the night. That doesn't say up and up to me...that says sneaky. NO notice and no regard for the fact that residents were going to be stuck on the other side trying to get in after working all night! It's cold, cruel and harsh. I missed a DR appt this morning because my husband took the car and I couldn't get over there! That's not "you people have no clue"...that's reality and reality for us sucks right now.

Interesting......................................
We are the few I guess that are actually leaving TV. We are heading to southern TN within the next 6 months. We miss kids, seasons and find we can buy a bigger house for much less money up there. We aren't fond of the oppressive heat here in the summer and we find it WAY too crowded in the winter.

[orgunvs]

Many of my friends and myself did not know about the protest this morning. What do you guys think about meeting at the radio station at 10:00am every day this week? Word will get out! This effects all of us.

[EdV]

....Where is Edvin Mass when you need him to tell us what is happening with the cart paths. Is this the SAME cart path that he was updating us on?...

Well Gracie, I’ve been conspicuously absent on this issue because I’m 600 miles away in the Smoky Mountains and on the way up here last month, I took a bad fall and I’m recuperating from a fractured knee cap. I just caught this thread and spent a couple of hours reading through it so I could post intelligently without repeating anything that’s been said. But my tongue is sore from biting it.


This was a shock to me and I never saw it coming either.
The golf cart access path sits right on the county line between Sumter and Lake counties.
The property on the west side is listed as owned by “Villages Tri-County Medical Center Inc.” which is a nonprofit organization not affiliated in any way with Gary Morse or his companies as far as I can tell.
The property on the east side (on Paradises Dr.) is listed as owned by “Villages of Lake Sumter Inc.” which is of course Morse’s company.
From the photographs taken by BKCunningham and others, it’s impossible to say which property the wall is on. Six inches either way makes it one or the other.
Using aerial photographs from Google Earth, I can tell you that in 1999 the path through there appears to be just a dirt path. But in the 2004 photograph, Morse had paved his side with a divider and the Tri County Medical side installed a golf cart sized roundabout with pavers.
Sometime on or after the 2004 upgrade, access gates were installed there to limit access to card carrying TV residents but the town of Lady Lake soon after made them remove the gates. The reason being that you cannot discriminate access to a public road (Paradise Dr.)
These last two points are extremely important if a legal battle ensues. Both property owners made significant roadway improvements on or before 2004 with intent to provide safe paved golf cart access through that area. So that useage has been in place for over a decade.

Now, has anyone contacted the building permit departments at Lake and Sumter counties to determine for sure to whom the permit for the wall was issued?

[chuckinca]

I can't believe that the developer was having a hard time sleeping on Friday night and suddenly said to his wife, "You know that gap that has been in existence for twenty years? I really need to get that fixed or the residents of my closed community will be nagging me to do so. Let me call my contractor right now so he can pre-cast a suitable wall section before dawn".


A precast wall section needs 30 days to cure BEFORE installation - - -

.

[OldManTime]

You all aren't going to believe this...but the path is a

BUILDING LOT !!

In the town of Lady Lake

[gocubsgo]

Look around at 100,000 + people living in a fairly nice environment. Several hundred successful businesses providing jobs for thousands. Home sales holding steady or rising when the rest of the country is struggling. Looks fairly sound to me.

Why do you people who have absolutely NO clue what's going on over here think you have to come into this discussion to do nothing else but throw gas on a fire? All you do is ridicule and sit there and throw judgement on a subject you are far removed from. Go to a different thread and talk about golf. Leave this problem to the people who care about each other and are affected.

Thanks for all the support...

[gocubsgo]

Interesting......................................

Really? You have that much time on your hands that you went through this thread and pulled out my posts?

Get a life...

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

"They" didn't close the Orange Blossom restaurant. The restaurant who was leasing the facility failed to renew the lease. I am sure that the Morses want to rent it to a new restaurant business, greedy and dispicible as they are. If it is sitting there empty..they aren't getting rent money. Could it have been that the restaurant folks weren't making as much money as they wished, or their business had dropped for some reason?

The wall is the issue. Maybe you are right and Gary is an ugly greedy person. Those of you who are posting that yet haven't moved here, maybe you should rethink it.

I hope the answer will not be that we will never know why. Because many are sure that they do know why.

I agree that the closing of OBH restaurant, the cowboy statue or the many other things that keep being mentioned in these posts are totally irrelevant to this issue.

I don't believe that the Morse's want to the see the historic district destroyed as they still make money on most of the homes that are sold here. I don't know if the Morse's are greedy or not and I don't care. I suspect that they are just business people who want to do what's best of their business. I'm not going speculate about the reasons that this wall was erected nor am I going to engage in personal attacks of the Morse family.

I don't think that any of that is helpful to this discussion or the goals of the people who have been affected by this wall.

I would simply like, and I believe that we all deserve, that either the wall be taken down or a reasonable explanation of why it was put up.

Can we please try to stick with the issue here and stop with all of the speculative comments that only confuse the discussion.

[rubicon]

I support the wall along the Mexican border and so I support a wall all along The Villages.:D

[Peachie]

Great photo Dr W...for those of you who have no clue as to the seriousness of this situation (and there are quite a few I see), the wall was put up where it says Cart Trail on the photo.

All of you who are laughing at this and calling us whiners, I want you over there on the south side to imagine a wall going up and blocking off Colony Plaza with no way to get around it. I'm tired of everyone thinking this a "get over it" situation.
This thing was slapped up in the middle of the night. That doesn't say up and up to me...that says sneaky. NO notice and no regard for the fact that residents were going to be stuck on the other side trying to get in after working all night! It's cold, cruel and harsh. I missed a DR appt this morning because my husband took the car and I couldn't get over there! That's not "you people have no clue"...that's reality and reality for us sucks right now.

Gocubsgo, I think someone posted a picture of the sign that said the path was going to be closed. And surely you know why the wall section was installed without fanfare, perceived entitlement to that path by some was sure to make it difficult.

That's your description that we're all "laughing and calling you whiners", what I said is that the people in the Historic section were aware this could happen anytime, anywhere in that area especially after the electric company closed the path crossing it's property.

I'm sure you were unhappy missing your doctor appointment this morning, I would be too, but in the future you will be able to schedule around the vehicle being available. My husband and I have to do that all the time.

The "hole" was a reference to the gap in The Villages wall allowing any traffic through the Historic section, Winston. I know exactly where the wall section was installed since my husband and I had traversed that path now and then after traveling from the 466A area. Strangely enough, we agreed after taking it ever so slowly last time in May, that we're not doing that again. It is dangerous and I can't imagine the very elderly people, that are being described here, ever driving that route. It is a bad accident waiting to happen and the last time we drove through, there were some panhandlers on the path.

Winston, I also wish the Morse's would make a statement on the reason they made a permanent closure on the path but most of the posters here wouldn't care why. I admire your perspective of the situation.

Njbchbum, I am aware of the history of the cart path and the newest building there. I personally believe Mr. Brown wanted to redirect traffic to access The Villages because it greatly improved the sale value of his property if there was cart access to The Villages, the Morse's may have deduced the same. I'm sure it helped not to have all those Villagers come to the permit meeting to buck the construction.

The roads are public in The Villages and people are welcome to come in and drive on them. The cart paths are not public and therein lies the rub.

EdV, hope you're feeling much better and mending. Thanks to the information you provided, we now know why the fence had to be closed off to the medical facilities but I think the premise that roadways were improved for cart traffic are thin, they were most likely improved for Stonecrest inhabitants.

Ah, well. The powers that be will sort this all out, the life hours are ticking away and I'm trying to make them count. Good luck to all and good to hear from you again, EdV

[PLedoux]

Dr. Kraucak, at Life Family Practice Center, has graciously opened the fence at the back of his property so that golf carts can come through his parking lot to access the medical offices in the East Campus of Villages Regional. To get there, you need to cut across the grass near the guard shack on West Boone. You will come through the parking lot of Life Family Practice and then you will be in the cul-de-sac where the original golf cart path came out. Dr. K asks that you use caution when coming through the parking lot, and of course, you are using this at your own risk.

[buggyone]

Really? You have that much time on your hands that you went through this thread and pulled out my posts?

Get a life...

For someone intent on moving to Tennessee, you sure seem to expend a lot of energy that could be spent packing on this dead horse topic.

[oot]

Wall cutting off popular golf cart path upsets Villages residents | www.wftv.com (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/wall-cutting-popular-golf-cart-path-upsets-village/nZMRq/)

It is on the Channel 9 website.....

[Indydealmaker]

What's the difference? If it affects ten people in a way that they will lose their jobs or not be able to get to their doctors, at the very least, an explanation is due.

If there is some legitimate reason such as safety then I can accept that. If this is simply to spite another business, then I really resent being used as pawn in someone's little chess match.

Boogie, I simply asked a question, but the answer might actually help with this situation. Facts can enhance emotions.

[gocubsgo]

For someone intent on moving to Tennessee, you sure seem to expend a lot of energy that could be spent packing on this dead horse topic.

wow...how low can you go?

[scres]

Great photo Dr W...for those of you who have no clue as to the seriousness of this situation (and there are quite a few I see), the wall was put up where it says Cart Trail on the photo.

All of you who are laughing at this and calling us whiners, I want you over there on the south side to imagine a wall going up and blocking off Colony Plaza with no way to get around it. I'm tired of everyone thinking this a "get over it" situation.
This thing was slapped up in the middle of the night. That doesn't say up and up to me...that says sneaky. NO notice and no regard for the fact that residents were going to be stuck on the other side trying to get in after working all night! It's cold, cruel and harsh. I missed a DR appt this morning because my husband took the car and I couldn't get over there! That's not "you people have no clue"...that's reality and reality for us sucks right now.

Good point!

[rubicon]

Dr. Kraucak, at Life Family Practice Center, has graciously opened the fence at the back of his property so that golf carts can come through his parking lot to access the medical offices in the East Campus of Villages Regional. To get there, you need to cut across the grass near the guard shack on West Boone. You will come through the parking lot of Life Family Practice and then you will be in the cul-de-sac where the original golf cart path came out. Dr. K asks that you use caution when coming through the parking lot, and of course, you are using this at your own risk.

This may become a real issue concerning liability for Dr K. His insurance company isn't going to be happy.

[Indydealmaker]

I don't know any of the Morse's. I have only lived in the Villages for a little over a year. But, I have defended the Morse's against attacks made ny people on this forum simply because they made a lot of money by providing so many people with a wonderful life. I don't begrudge them anything that they have earned. In fact I admire the people who take the chances and invest the money and are successful. People who I've spoken with that know the Morse's have told me the same thing that you are saying about them. That they are fine people and I have no about that.

That being said, it is quite obvious that this wall is on Villages property. It seems that it would have to be either put there by order of the Morse's or at least with their knowledge.

Maybe there is a good reason for that wall being built. Whatever the reason, I think that the residents of the Villages deserve at the very least, an explanation.

In all probability the reason for this wall will have something to do with a Lawyer.

[Birdie Dreamer]

I am a newbee without any of the history nor am I impacted by the wall.

But from my perspective what started as a thread on an action that impacted a significant number of residents and a discussion on actions that could be taken to try and resolve the issue has slowly but surely changed.

It is now primarily a combination of attacks on the developer and worse has become nasty and personal between posters.

If it continues it should not surprise you when the thread gets shut down. It will be due to the postings and not a conspiracy.

[Arctic Fox]

A precast wall section needs 30 days to cure BEFORE installation - - - .

Indeed it does.

And I can't recall there being a public meeting called a month ago so that we Villagers could be told about the proposal to block that path.

This whole thing has been planned and kept secret for a long time.

Strange how 6 am on a Saturday is the best time to do the dirty deed - why pay overtime rates?

[OldManTime]

Scott Wilder of the Villages Community Watch reported that someone had spray painted the new wall blocking the Paradise Drive golf cart path. I informed him that without a victim we could not ascertain if a crime had actually occurred without first speaking to the owner. I asked him if he knew who the owner of the property (wall) was since the Town had not received any permit application for the construction. He informed me that he did not, but he would be calling someone (did not indicate who) to have them contact the Town for any necessary permits.

Just an update on the wall issue (see below). The Property Record Card shows the owner of the lot as The Village of Lake-Sumter, Inc. It is a platted residential lot and no improvements are shown on it. Staff is still looking into this and I will keep you posted.

Just to give you an update on the wall at Paradise. spoke with a Randy Thompson earlier (around lunch time) from AgeWave Solutions. He was inquiring about what would be required to remove the improvements on the property at 1157 Paradise Drive so that a single family residence could be put on the lot, just inquiries at this point. I requested to see the survey that he had so that I could share it with the building official to determine the scope of what would be removed, permits, etc. While it appears that the land upon which the wall was erected is in the Town, when I receive this survey I will be able to confirm that with greater certainty.

To date there are no permits filed for the wall that was constructed, nor have any demolition permits or other permits affiliated with new construction of a residence on the property. I have also verified this morning that Sumter County was not approached about permitting of the wall, nor would they be able to permit it anyway as they felt it was in the Town as well. Sam Wartinbee stated that the district had nothing to do with the wall. The image below shows the property line. The farthest line to the left is western boundary of the VCCDD tract, also being the county boundary. Unable to locate any Lady Lake permits for the existing improvements in the property.

[Jconn62836]

Its unfortunate that this "Wall" has divided our physical access to other communities. But it is now dividing "Our" community morally. Lets try and be nice.

[EdV]

...EdV, hope you're feeling much better and mending. Thanks to the information you provided, we now know why the fence had to be closed off to the medical facilities but I think the premise that roadways were improved for cart traffic are thin, they were most likely improved for Stonecrest inhabitants....

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.

But regarding access by Stonecrest residents, let me give you my thoughts. Stonecrest has around 2000 homes, but unlike TV where there are roughly 40,000 golf carts, Stonecrest has at most 500 carts. And of those, not many of them would be using that dusty cart path and the narrow golf cart bridge to Spanish Springs very often. The importance of Stonecrest in the golf cart path into TV has been grossly exaggerated.

Clearly there is something else afoot and time will tell as we sort it out. But I haven�t seen this much excitement on TOTV in quite a while.

Buckle Up as Bettie Davis once said.

[Warren Kiefer]

I am a newbee without any of the history nor am I impacted by the wall.

But from my perspective what started as a thread on an action that impacted a significant number of residents and a discussion on actions that could be taken to try and resolve the issue has slowly but surely changed.

It is now primarily a combination of attacks on the developer and worse has become nasty and personal between posters.

If it continues it should not surprise you when the thread gets shut down. It will be due to the postings and not a conspiracy.

Do you know the meaning of the word apathy ??/

[njbchbum]

Look around at 100,000 + people living in a fairly nice environment. Several hundred successful businesses providing jobs for thousands. Home sales holding steady or rising when the rest of the country is struggling. Looks fairly sound to me.

so building a wall that prevents villagers from accessing villages facilities is a good thing? sheesh!

[Warren Kiefer]

I live south of 466 however, I am concerned about the "wall". I have what I think might be a soluation to the problem. The 3 groups which the wall affects are- TV, especially the historic side, Harbor Chase, and Spruce Creek. Our golf cart trails are not public streets. They are owned by the developer and the residents of TV. They are not like our streets where any one may travel (we are not a gated community). Why not install a gate like at Hickory Head Hammock. The gate could only be triggered by our gate cards. There would be no button to push. ONLY villages residents would have the card. This would keep the people from Harbor Chase and Spruce Creek out. I know people will say I am being snobby by not letting Spruce Creekers in, However they do not pay for the upkeep of the trails, we do. Our trails are getting crowded as TV gets bigger. Maybe it's time to limit access to other communities. The people from the outside are still welcome to dine and shop only they must use public roads not our private golf card trails.

This post confuses me a lot. First your statement about the trails is not true. All trails and paths North of 466 are owned by the CDD's. And why would you think the Developer has a desire to keep outrsiders out. Have you ever noticed that the town squares encourage outsiders and there are no limitations to outsiders other than Katie Bells.. Championship golf courses are open to outsiders.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

A precast wall section needs 30 days to cure BEFORE installation - - -

.

Since this seems to be the same type of wall that is used all over the Villages, I would be surprised if they have hundreds of sections like these in storage somewhere in the event that a section has to be replaced.

Again, I'm not sure how this is relevant. I think that pour purpose should be to either have the wall removed or be given a reasonable reason for it's existence. Our purpose should not be to demonize the developer or anyone else.

[Bogie Shooter]

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.

But regarding access by Stonecrest residents, let me give you my thoughts. Stonecrest has around 2000 homes, but unlike TV where there are roughly 40,000 golf carts, Stonecrest has at most 500 carts. And of those, not many of them would be using that dusty cart path and the narrow golf cart bridge to Spanish Springs very often. The importance of Stonecrest in the golf cart path into TV has been grossly exaggerated.

Clearly there is something else afoot and time will tell as we sort it out. But I haven�t seen this much excitement on TOTV in quite a while.

Buckle Up as Bettie Davis once said.

You are right Ed.........this even outdoes the dog poop threads.
Hope you are feeling better soon.

[njbchbum]

peachie posted that there was a permit meeting...how did peachie know that? i wonder when and where it was held? it has been posted several times that no permits were issued for instaallation of this wall. hmmmmm......

and peachie did not answer my question about how/why they think stonecrest residents will soon be able to cross 441/27?

who is peachie and where do they get their information?

[chuckinca]

The precast wall was ALL installed on the early morning of Saturday 8/10/13.

The installation included a center precast "H" frame to slide the 2 wall sections into. The center H frame was attached to a drilled cast in place concrete pier - that was installed that same morning. The pier probably needed at least 7 days cure time before it could properly support the approx 6,000 Lbs or so of the two precast panels.

I wonder what licensed structural engineer approved the installation in one day - and maybe the Town of Lady Lake will also.

PS: Stand back of the wall for a few more days in a stiff wind.

.

[EastCoastDawg]

Stand back of the wall for a few more days in a stiff wind.

I have seen a Humvee cart in TV - maybe if s/he took a good run at the wall...

[janmcn]

Scott Wilder of the Villages Community Watch reported that someone had spray painted the new wall blocking the Paradise Drive golf cart path. I informed him that without a victim we could not ascertain if a crime had actually occurred without first speaking to the owner. I asked him if he knew who the owner of the property (wall) was since the Town had not received any permit application for the construction. He informed me that he did not, but he would be calling someone (did not indicate who) to have them contact the Town for any necessary permits.

Just an update on the wall issue (see below). The Property Record Card shows the owner of the lot as The Village of Lake-Sumter, Inc. It is a platted residential lot and no improvements are shown on it. Staff is still looking into this and I will keep you posted.

Just to give you an update on the wall at Paradise. spoke with a Randy Thompson earlier (around lunch time) from AgeWave Solutions. He was inquiring about what would be required to remove the improvements on the property at 1157 Paradise Drive so that a single family residence could be put on the lot, just inquiries at this point. I requested to see the survey that he had so that I could share it with the building official to determine the scope of what would be removed, permits, etc. While it appears that the land upon which the wall was erected is in the Town, when I receive this survey I will be able to confirm that with greater certainty.

To date there are no permits filed for the wall that was constructed, nor have any demolition permits or other permits affiliated with new construction of a residence on the property. I have also verified this morning that Sumter County was not approached about permitting of the wall, nor would they be able to permit it anyway as they felt it was in the Town as well. Sam Wartinbee stated that the district had nothing to do with the wall. The image below shows the property line. The farthest line to the left is western boundary of the VCCDD tract, also being the county boundary. Unable to locate any Lady Lake permits for the existing improvements in the property.


I'm a little confused about this post. Are you saying that someone is looking at building a house on the golf cart access lot, or is someone looking to remove the existing structure at 1157 Paradise and build a new home?

[gomoho]

Channel 9 coverage was very disappointing - maybe 10 seconds and didn't really cover the issue.

[chuckinca]

and peachie did not answer my question about how/why they think stonecrest residents will soon be able to cross 441/27?


I believe peachie is correct concerning Spruce Creek and Stonecrest residents crossing 441/27. There is a new Fla law that allows carts to cross at certain locations with local authority approval. Spruce Creek made an application to Marion Cty early this year to cross 441/27 at the stop light by Sun Trust (in front of their main gate). The roads between the Stonecrest CC walls and 441/27 are owned by Stonecrest Commercial Corp who approved the Spruce Creek Cart access on their property allowing carts to travel to Walmart and points south. Stonecrest property owners voted on the issue and also approved it.

Stonecrest and Village carts that get beyond the new wall and get Stonecrest Commercial approval if required will be allowed to cross 441/27 - I don't know where they go from there. Maybe a new path in front of Spruce Creek to get to the stores by CVS and McDonalds; maybe into Spruce Creek to use the existing automatic gate from Spruce Creek into the CVS and McDonalds area.

Marion County hasn't finalized the crossing yet.

[N44125]

Channel 9 showed that the wall had been spray painted with graffiti. I was disappointed to hear that / see that. I have always bragged about TV being graffiti free.

Can someone post a picture of the wall with the graffiti?

While I agree that the wall is wrong and handled incorrectly by TV management, I also feel that we don't have to resort to vandalism.

[spk7951]

I believe peachie is correct concerning Spruce Creek and Stonecrest residents crossing 441/27. There is a new Fla law that allows carts to cross at certain locations with local authority approval. Spruce Creek made an application to Marion Cty early this year to cross 441/27 at the stop light by Sun Trust (in front of their main gate). The roads between the Stonecrest CC walls and 441/27 are owned by Stonecrest Commercial Corp who approved the Spruce Creek Cart access on their property allowing carts to travel to Walmart and points south. Stonecrest property owners voted on the issue and also approved it.

Stonecrest carts will be allowed to cross 441/27 - I don't know where they go from there. Maybe a new path in front of Spruce Creek to get to the stores by CVS and McDonalds; maybe into Spruce Creek to use the existing automatic gate from Spruce Creek into the CVS and McDonalds area.

Marion County hasn't finalized the crossing yet.


Marion County has approved the crossing. Played golf last week at Spruce Creek and did notice golf carts crossing 441 from both sides of that traffic light.
Marion County Commission establishes golf-cart crossing for U.S. 441 in Summerfield | Ocala.com (http://www.ocala.com/article/20130319/articles/130319619)

[Peachie]

peachie posted that there was a permit meeting...how did peachie know that? i wonder when and where it was held? it has been posted several times that no permits were issued for instaallation of this wall. hmmmmm......

and peachie did not answer my question about how/why they think stonecrest residents will soon be able to cross 441/27?

who is peachie and where do they get their information?


Hi, njbchbum. Sorry if my sentence was vague, the permit I was referring to was that needed to build the assisted living center. If you traveled the path in question prior to the assisted living center being built, you would have seen the signs posted pleading with people to support this building project they would be sure to get them through their lot on a cart. (You know, vote purchasing to get their project approved.)

Approval has been given for SPRUCE CREEK residents, not Stonecrest as you indicated, to cross 441/27 in their golf carts, at their entrance intersection with the traffic lights. This was published earlier this year and, I believe, details and signage are being worked out. Perhaps EdV can provide more details but it was approved. I was somewhat surprised others from the Historic section hadn't referred to this fact. Stonecrest would, of course, also be able to cross to Spruce Creek in their golf carts but I don't think Spruce Creek will let them in.

(Thanks Chuckinca and spk7951 for the crossing verification.)

And I get my information from standard news sources and signage observation. Hope this helps, now back to the subject at hand...

[champion6]

Channel 9 coverage was very disappointing - maybe 10 seconds and didn't really cover the issue.

Channel 9 showed that the wall had been spray painted with graffiti. I was disappointed to hear that / see that. I have always bragged about TV being graffiti free.
Can someone post a picture of the wall with the graffiti?
While I agree that the wall is wrong and handled incorrectly by TV management, I also feel that we don't have to resort to vandalism.Here is a link to the Channel 9 story: Wall cutting off popular golf cart path upsets Villages residents | www.wftv.com (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/wall-cutting-popular-golf-cart-path-upsets-village/nZMRq/)
gomoho, it is about 1:45 and was broadcast about an hour before the brief report that you saw.

[Rickg]

If you keep up the pressure you'll get answers. If you give up in a few days the wall will certainly stay and you will get no answers. Even an hour a day in front of the sales office will not be tolerable by the developer. He will at least get you answers IF he isn't the one responsible. The sidewalks should be public property. If the Sumter Co. PD. comes and asks you to move, do so. They in all likelihood will work with you and tell you where you may picket. The best plan would be to contact them (county PD) in advance and advise them of your plan, ask where you may picket. As long as you keep walking there should be no issues.

[njbchbum]

thanx chuck/spk - i was aware of the spruce creek authorization but not aware that there is anything in the works for stonecrest residents to have a crossing also.

[Villageshooter]

We must remember we are only drones at the whim of the developer just keep drinking that Kool-Aid is all they want! If you want to pick it Mr. Morrises house he lives temporarily In a huge homes just near the lighthouse Restaurant he is Temporarily living in very first one. We do not matter we just have to keep drinking that Kool-Aid

[EdV]

OK everyone. Now that Happy Hour is well underway, let�s just sit down and cool out and get our heads together.

Your mission tomorrow, should you decide to accept it is to have two of you go to the Sumter County office and the other to go to the Lake County office and demand to see the permit for the wall in question. I�ve given you the two addresses where the this wall is between. Let�s just establish which property owner put �The Wall� in.

And when they give you the information, make a copy of it and post it here. First steps first, are you with me gang?

[chuckinca]

Marion County has approved the crossing. Played golf last week at Spruce Creek and did notice golf carts crossing 441 from both sides of that traffic light.
Marion County Commission establishes golf-cart crossing for U.S. 441 in Summerfield | Ocala.com (http://www.ocala.com/article/20130319/articles/130319619)

That is a March 19, 2013 article.

This is from a Spruce Creek email in July:

GOLF CART CROSSING

Today, 7/2/2013, Senator Hays� office informed me that the requested LSV conversion to a golf cart status has been approved and became effective 7/1/2013. When the County completes FDOT�s requirements for the golf cart crossing at the main gate they can proceed to make it legal. This will open up legal access to most locations currently requiring the legality of an LSV. Owners of LSV�s may wish to convert them to golf cart status in order to be relieved of the registration fee and high insurance premium required. Information on this may be obtained at the DMV in Spruce Creek Terrace shopping center.
Bill Williams
CS/CS/SB 62 - Low-speed Vehicles
General Bill by Appropriations and Transportation and Hays (CO-SPONSORS) Abruzzo; Simpson; Evers; Lee; Sobel

Low-speed Vehicles:
Authorizing the conversion of a vehicle titled or branded and registered as a low-speed vehicle to a golf cart; requiring the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles to issue a decal, etc.
CS/HB 71 By Transportation & Highway Safety Subcommittee and Combee and O'Toole
　

[ajbrown]

I am saddened to see someone spray painted the wall. This is day one of an issue very important to many people. Spray painting the wall is childish and does nothing to further the cause. IMO it makes us look bad as a community.

Then again it could just be kids again right? :ohdear:

As always I reserve the right to be wrong.

[Karron]

Wall cutting off popular golf cart path upsets Villages residents | www.wftv.com (http://m.wftv.com/news/news/local/wall-cutting-popular-golf-cart-path-upsets-village/nZMRq/)
When I read this......
Well, my first thought was; Can Mr Morse really be so insensitive?.....
Next thought; He could do this to any village, including mine, Sable Chase!
All of the residents must support those affected by this rude, mean act!
Karron

[scres]

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.

But regarding access by Stonecrest residents, let me give you my thoughts. Stonecrest has around 2000 homes, but unlike TV where there are roughly 40,000 golf carts, Stonecrest has at most 500 carts. And of those, not many of them would be using that dusty cart path and the narrow golf cart bridge to Spanish Springs very often. The importance of Stonecrest in the golf cart path into TV has been grossly exaggerated.

Clearly there is something else afoot and time will tell as we sort it out. But I haven�t seen this much excitement on TOTV in quite a while.

Buckle Up as Bettie Davis once said.

A voice of reason, I can't agree with you more, Ed. There is something else afoot and attacking each other won't resolve the problem.

[Tom Grooms]

I can't believe it, graffiti? And even worse these IDIOTS wearing a path through the grass. Are you kidding me?

As a southern Villager I didn't have a dog in the fight, until now.

STOP DESTROYING OUR COMMUNITY!

[scres]

Channel 9 showed that the wall had been spray painted with graffiti. I was disappointed to hear that / see that. I have always bragged about TV being graffiti free.

Can someone post a picture of the wall with the graffiti?

While I agree that the wall is wrong and handled incorrectly by TV management, I also feel that we don't have to resort to vandalism.

Here are two pictures from both sides of the wall. This is not helping the cause. I know people are upset, but resorting to vandalism is not the answer. Put pressure on those accountable and have them answer to the residents for their actions.

[ttown]

Sorry. I live near the wall. The graffiti got attention. The path through the grass is simply people trying to get to places that were shut off.
We were treated with no respect and are reacting in kind.
A discussion in the first p,ace would have brought a totally different result.

[graciegirl]

thanx chuck/spk - i was aware of the spruce creek authorization but not aware that there is anything in the works for stonecrest residents to have a crossing also.

This is an old post of EDV's that seems to include both subdivisions.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/county-approves-spruce-creek-south-golf-cart-crossing-over-441-a-75511/

[Karron]

:bowdown:

I just don't think we should "bow down" to such tactics by the owners of the Villages!

Karron

[blueash]

I have read all 16 pages. While this does not affect me it certainly is a major disruption to the lives and expectations of those who depended on the gate. What is agreed is that with little or no local notification on a Saturday morning the path was closed. The wall that was erected matches the wall used by the Villages and was placed on property owned by the Villages, if it is in Lake Co. or by the Villages Health care system if it is in Sumter Co. Lake Co reports there is no permit for the wall. Sumter Co website shows none for its side (property D01-L100). The owner of the under construction assisted living facility says he has nothing to do with it. A landowner, Mr. Brown, with interest in land previously traversed by the path also denies any role in the wall. Neither of those parties would have had any right to build the wall even had they wished for it.
Some have questioned why would TV cut off access to its own urgent care facility? Because the only way to effectively block traffic was at the gate location as to build a wall completely around the urgent care location is impractical.
Now for speculation....
If you want to decrease the value of the land of people who are your opposition, if you want the businesses to whom they lease land to be unhappy, if perhaps you have a long term interest in acquiring that land at a discounted price then this gate makes sense. A lot of sense.
If, as it appears, there was no building permit issued, if in fact it was needed, we all know that neither Lake Co nor Sumter Co would reject the application. They might make them take the wall down, get the permit, then they can put the wall up. I don't know what public input there is in the granting of a building permit for a fence on private property but both counties are "pro-development"

Looking carefully at the land, it seems that to the west of the homesite there is a very narrow strip of land which in in Lake Co, 3452399. It appears the fence in the rear of all the yards, the fence which is matched by the new piece, is on land owned by...
VILLAGE CENTER COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT 1419 PARADISE DR LADY LAKE FL 32159 3201 WEDGEWOOD LN
THE VILLAGES, FL 32162 although the property card does not show any fence construction on any of its land

[Karron]

:agree::agree::agree:Just returned from there.
Construction crew was there, said the closing is permanent, they had instructions to build a wall.
Seems like we are not in a golf cart friendly community, as we had thought.
Hope this can be resolved , somehow...

:agree:

We must stand up to this new "insult" to our neighbors!

[Bogie Shooter]

Shame, shame about the vandalism....................is rather childish.

[graciegirl]

///

[Indydealmaker]

OK everyone. Now that Happy Hour is well underway, let�s just sit down and cool out and get our heads together.

Your mission tomorrow, should you decide to accept it is to have two of you go to the Sumter County office and the other to go to the Lake County office and demand to see the permit for the wall in question. I�ve given you the two addresses where the this wall is between. Let�s just establish which property owner put �The Wall� in.

And when they give you the information, make a copy of it and post it here. First steps first, are you with me gang?

It is likely that the original permit for the existing wall included a continuous wall across the recently blocked space.

[NoMoSno]

I was at the Lady Lake Building Commission office at 9:15, The Building Commissioner had already been to the site. There is a problem as to exactly where the wall is built, it could be right on the county line. He told me there was no permit issued by his office and he is going to contact his counterpart in Sumter County. They are not happy about this.
Looks like the building commissioner was at the site and not happy...

[Tom Grooms]

Sorry. I live near the wall. The graffiti got attention. The path through the grass is simply people trying to get to places that were shut off.
We were treated with no respect and are reacting in kind.
A discussion in the first p,ace would have brought a totally different result.

Are you seriously trying to rationalize that behavior? You people are upset, I get it. But you don't own this place, It's OUR place and you are trashing it like a grade school punk. Reminds me of the thugs that burnt down LA after the Rodney King verdict.

STAY OFF OUR GRASS AND PAINT YOUR OWN HOUSE IF YOU FEEL THE NEED.

And to bring that negative attention to the media? Great, just what I want to find in a "The Villages" Google search. Residents that don't care about the property. Nice work guys and gals. You're doing us all a disservice acting like animals...

[njbchbum]

It is likely that the original permit for the existing wall included a continuous wall across the recently blocked space.

that doesn't sound like a fact to me. and in my new jersey town, permits have a start and end date. i know florida could be different - but 20 years to construct?

and why if there was originally a gate at the location with a paved divided path - which ed indicated was made to be taken down by lady lake - wold there have been a wall in the original plans?

i have trouble following the logic of the wall being in the original permit.

[njbchbum]

Are you seriously trying to rationalize that behavior? You people are upset, I get it. But you don't own this place, It's OUR place and you are trashing it like a grade school punk. Reminds me of the thugs that burnt down LA after the Rodney King verdict.

STAY OFF OUR GRASS AND PAINT YOUR OWN HOUSE IF YOU FEEL THE NEED.

And to bring that negative attention to the media? Great, just what I want to find in a "The Villages" Google search. Residents that don't care about the property. Nice work guys and gals. You're doing us all a disservice acting like animals...

hey, tom, where do you come off stating that a villager did it? it is on BOTH sides! how many villagers do you know can scale the wall to grafitti up both sides? maybe done by someone else who can no longer access the villages?

[OldManTime]

that doesn't sound like a fact to me. and in my new jersey town, permits have a start and end date. i know florida could be different - but 20 years to construct?

and why if there was originally a gate at the location with a paved divided path - which ed indicated was made to be taken down by lady lake - wold there have been a wall in the original plans?

i have trouble following the logic of the wall being in the original permit.

The original wall opening was built by the developer (Harold Schwartz) and was permitted, way back some years ago. Most likely through Lake County. The closure of the wall on saturday morning was done without a permit from the Town of Lady Lake.

But let us all get focused here, this wall keeps many super seniors who do not have cars, low income, and need to access the medical establishments, and also so many jobs can be lost at Walmart, Lowe's and Aldi, where employees do not have cars, just golf carts, and that is why they live in the Villages.

[bkcunningham1]

This is a very important topic. I do not want the thread to be closed and locked. Please, let's be respectful of each other and provide informative posts. Whether expressing an opinion, asking a question or providing facts, please remember it is other humans reading you words

We don't know who vandalized the wall. It was very sad to see such disrespect for everyone involved. I don't want to see us disrespecting each other here either. We do not have to agree but a little respect for each other goes along way. Thanks everyone. I know it is easy to get emotional here when we are only reading each others' words. Just remember there are people attached to the computers, phones Nooks and other devices we are typing on. Peace.

[Tom Grooms]

Maybe, maybe is was Michael Jordan, or Donald Trump or maybe it was Mr Morse himself. Who knows? Who cares? When you watch that news clip you can only believe is could be one of the protesting sign holders.

I can only wish I could catch someone doing something like this...

If you must get over to Walmart/Aldi's/Lowes/your doctor/whatever, call public transit, take a cab, walk, ride a bike, rollerblade, buy a car, I don't care pogo stick your way to the store but PLEASE STAY OFF OUR GRASS.

[Indydealmaker]

that doesn't sound like a fact to me. and in my new jersey town, permits have a start and end date. i know florida could be different - but 20 years to construct?

and why if there was originally a gate at the location with a paved divided path - which ed indicated was made to be taken down by lady lake - wold there have been a wall in the original plans?

i have trouble following the logic of the wall being in the original permit.

Consider that if that path was an official multimodal path, it would have been paved. A dirt path sure sounds temporary to me regardless of how long it had been that way. Obviously, cost would not have been a factor.

As far as the original permit goes, I did not state anything as a fact. However, I do know that if I get a permit to build a fence and choose to leave an opening or a gate, that in most jurisdictions, I do not need a new permit to close that gap. On two occasions I have obtained a permit to build a deck, then at some point decided to virtually rebuild that deck, I did not need a new permit as long as the original footings and posts were maintained. It is possible that that methodology may apply in this instance. However, that is pure speculation which has no value other than to fill space on the forum, just like almost all of the other posts herein.

So, since I have committed the sin of rabid speculation, I am now going to put myself in "time out".

[chuckinca]

It is paved - look at the pics.

.

[njbchbum]

Consider that if that path was an official multimodal path, it would have been paved. A dirt path sure sounds temporary to me regardless of how long it had been that way. Obviously, cost would not have been a factor.

As far as the original permit goes, I did not state anything as a fact. However, I do know that if I get a permit to build a fence and choose to leave an opening or a gate, that in most jurisdictions, I do not need a new permit to close that gap. On two occasions I have obtained a permit to build a deck, then at some point decided to virtually rebuild that deck, I did not need a new permit as long as the original footings and posts were maintained. It is possible that that methodology may apply in this instance. However, that is pure speculation which has no value other than to fill space on the forum, just like almost all of the other posts herein.

So, since I have committed the sin of rabid speculation, I am now going to put myself in "time out".

:beer3:

i my town if i have a permit for a fence - the entire fence goes up - no openings; and if i hafta reconstruct an existing deck - i hafta get a new permit...and pay for it, too. enjoy the time out!

[JeffAVEWS]

I'll post this again, I still think there is easement there! This should by fodder for the POA's lawyers.
Quoted from Wikipedia:

Easement by estoppel

When a property owner misrepresents the existence of an easement while selling a property and does not include an express easement in the deed to the buyer, the court may step in and create an easement. Easements by estoppel generally look to any promises not made in writing, any money spent by the benefiting party in reliance on the representations of the burdened party. If the court finds that the buyer acted in good faith and relied on the seller's promises, the court will create an easement by estoppel.

For example: Ray sells land to Joe on the promise that Joe can use Ray's driveway and bridge to the main road at anytime, but Ray does not include the easement in the deed to the land. Joe, deciding that the land is now worth the price, builds a house and connects a garage to Ray's driveway. If Ray (or his successors) later decides to gate off the driveway and prevents Joe (or Joe's successors) from accessing the driveway, a court would likely find an easement by estoppel.

Because Joe purchased the land assuming that there would be access to the bridge and the driveway and Joe then paid for a house and a connection, Joe can be said to rely on Ray's promise of an easement. Ray materially misrepresented the facts to Joe. In order to preserve equity, the court will likely find an easement by estoppel.

On the other hand, if Ray had offered access to the bridge and driveway after selling Joe the land, there may not be an easement by estoppel. In this instance, it is merely inconvenient if Ray revokes access to the driveway. Joe did not purchase the land and build the house in reliance on access to the driveway and bridge. Joe will need to find a separate theory to justify an easement.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Well Gracie, I�ve been conspicuously absent on this issue because I�m 600 miles away in the Smoky Mountains and on the way up here last month, I took a bad fall and I�m recuperating from a fractured knee cap. I just caught this thread and spent a couple of hours reading through it so I could post intelligently without repeating anything that�s been said. But my tongue is sore from biting it.


This was a shock to me and I never saw it coming either.
The golf cart access path sits right on the county line between Sumter and Lake counties.
The property on the west side is listed as owned by �Villages Tri-County Medical Center Inc.� which is a nonprofit organization not affiliated in any way with Gary Morse or his companies as far as I can tell.
The property on the east side (on Paradises Dr.) is listed as owned by �Villages of Lake Sumter Inc.� which is of course Morse�s company.
From the photographs taken by BKCunningham and others, it�s impossible to say which property the wall is on. Six inches either way makes it one or the other.
Using aerial photographs from Google Earth, I can tell you that in 1999 the path through there appears to be just a dirt path. But in the 2004 photograph, Morse had paved his side with a divider and the Tri County Medical side installed a golf cart sized roundabout with pavers.
Sometime on or after the 2004 upgrade, access gates were installed there to limit access to card carrying TV residents but the town of Lady Lake soon after made them remove the gates. The reason being that you cannot discriminate access to a public road (Paradise Dr.)
These last two points are extremely important if a legal battle ensues. Both property owners made significant roadway improvements on or before 2004 with intent to provide safe paved golf cart access through that area. So that useage has been in place for over a decade.

Now, has anyone contacted the building permit departments at Lake and Sumter counties to determine for sure to whom the permit for the wall was issued?

Hi Ed,

People on here feel that you know your stuff when it comes to these kind of issues and I have no reason to believe that what you say is not correct. But, I have looked up some addresses and I don't understand how the wall could be constructed on the county line. Several of the doc in that medical center are listed at 1501 Hwy 41 LADY LAKE, Lowe's is listed as being in Lady Lake as is Aldi
I supposed that it's possible that the county line takes some kind of weird turn or twist but the first business that is listed as being in Summerfield is Wal_Mart.

[JeffAVEWS]

I was at Lady Lake Building Commission this morning, no (new) permit was issued.

[rubicon]

Some villagers seem to forget that when the Developer moved the Wellness Center he did not ask permission nor did he give advance notice. Residents who used the indoor pool petition to stop the move, that is retain use of the pool. Obviously that issue died even with support of the POA.

For the past 7 years I have heard nothing but glowing reports about his holiness the Developer. For all those same years I have simply said he is a business man and as such I did take issue on the way he conducted some of that business. In that same vein then don't you believe that a guy capable of building The villages would do what was legally required to erect a wall?

The issue relating to golf carts on 441 leaves me cold. Heck I don't feel comfortable on 441 in my Cross Over let alone a golf cart. there have been some very serious accidents in this area (cars, bikes pedestrians).

Also the poster that pointed to the fact that it is a dirt trail vis a vis concrete is on to something.

I believe if people settled down they find that this situation is not as serious as they believe. Life is all about adapting and that is what is required here and since necessity is the mother of invention people will adapt

The wall may well provide many benefits for villagers they just have to give it a chance

The cart paths in The Villages are private and paid for by our amenities, etc. villagers welcome outsiders but many want them to come in from the front door. Keep in mind what the car paths look like in prime season bumper to bumper so 500 outsider golf carts here and 500 there adds up
to serious over runs.

[bkcunningham1]

I'll post this again, I still think there is easement there! This should by fodder for the POA's lawyers.

Easement by estoppel

When a property owner misrepresents the existence of an easement while selling a property and does not include an express easement in the deed to the buyer, the court may step in and create an easement. Easements by estoppel generally look to any promises not made in writing, any money spent by the benefiting party in reliance on the representations of the burdened party. If the court finds that the buyer acted in good faith and relied on the seller's promises, the court will create an easement by estoppel.

For example: Ray sells land to Joe on the promise that Joe can use Ray's driveway and bridge to the main road at anytime, but Ray does not include the easement in the deed to the land. Joe, deciding that the land is now worth the price, builds a house and connects a garage to Ray's driveway. If Ray (or his successors) later decides to gate off the driveway and prevents Joe (or Joe's successors) from accessing the driveway, a court would likely find an easement by estoppel.

Because Joe purchased the land assuming that there would be access to the bridge and the driveway and Joe then paid for a house and a connection, Joe can be said to rely on Ray's promise of an easement. Ray materially misrepresented the facts to Joe. In order to preserve equity, the court will likely find an easement by estoppel.

On the other hand, if Ray had offered access to the bridge and driveway after selling Joe the land, there may not be an easement by estoppel. In this instance, it is merely inconvenient if Ray revokes access to the driveway. Joe did not purchase the land and build the house in reliance on access to the driveway and bridge. Joe will need to find a separate theory to justify an easement.

Thank you for the information. It is very interesting and educational. It makes a lot of sense.

[gpirate]

Some villagers seem to forget that when the Developer moved the Wellness Center he did not ask permission nor did he give advance notice. Residents who used the indoor pool petition to stop the move, that is retain use of the pool. Obviously that issue died even with support of the POA.

For the past 7 years I have heard nothing but glowing reports about his holiness the Developer. For all those same years I have simply said he is a business man and as such I did take issue on the way he conducted some of that business. In that same vein then don't you believe that a guy capable of building The villages would do what was legally required to erect a wall?

The issue relating to golf carts on 441 leaves me cold. Heck I don't feel comfortable on 441 in my Cross Over let alone a golf cart. there have been some very serious accidents in this area (cars, bikes pedestrians).

Also the poster that pointed to the fact that it is a dirt trail vis a vis concrete is on to something.

I believe if people settled down they find that this situation is not as serious as they believe. Life is all about adapting and that is what is required here and since necessity is the mother of invention people will adapt

The wall may well provide many benefits for villagers they just have to give it a chance

The cart paths in The Villages are private and paid for by our amenities, etc. villagers welcome outsiders but many want them to come in from the front door. Keep in mind what the car paths look like in prime season bumper to bumper so 500 outsider golf carts here and 500 there adds up
to serious over runs.

What Village are you located within? May answer your own question.

[JeffAVEWS]

I wonder where the money came from to pave that property and maintain the landscaping (yes the sides of the path are landscaped)? If it's private land did the owner pay to have the area maintained, or (most likely) the crews that we pay for maintained it.

[ellie123]

This wall is not going to hurt the people in stonecrest as much as it is going to hurt the people living in Orange Blossom. I know that many more of those residents use that path to go to Walmart and Lowes because their golf cart is the only transportation for them. Your "Friendliest Home Town" seems to be giving the shaft to the very people that helped build The Villages.

[ellie123]

Where is there a Lowes on 466? Also, do you really think the majority of people living in Orange Blossom want to drive their carts all the way up there?

[ellie123]

Houses aren't being built on the Historic side any longer, so TV isn't considering how all of this is going to affect these residents.

[ellie123]

Be careful driving along the road. Have seen and heard people doing this and one person got a ticket for $160.00! All this wall is going to do is cause a lot of problems.

[Steve9930]

Maybe they're irritated by the perception propagated by many of the people adjacent to the property which was trespassed, that they are the ONLY people with special needs, requirements and transportation in The Villages and the only people deserving of special arrangements. It would make our lives so much easier down by 466A to make holes in many fenced areas of The Villages to access facilities in an illegal way so we could give our cars away and have a 5 minute ride to work or shop in stores.

It is a hardship, no doubt, to the people who used the shortcut on a regular basis. But what's amazing here is that when talking to different people over the years that lived in this area, they expressed hope that the hole in The Villages wouldn't be closed. People knew it was a possibility but were willing to take the risk. And that opening hasn't been like that for 20 years, there was a gate there for carding; hmmm..... wonder how many times that gate was damaged so people could enter The Villages property without passes and The Villages stopped repairing it because of this. The opening was only to allow Villagers into the Villages medical businesses, period, NO FURTHER.

Now the Morse's are contending with businesses building adjacent to their property that are advising people, "you will have access to The Villages". Large pieces of property are waiting development in this area which could be more dense residential living.

I believe shortly Spruce Creek residents will be allowed to cross 441/27 in golf carts and this will also supply them direct access into The Villages residential areas. Spruce Creek is gated and we can't access them without getting in a car or street legal and driving there. Stonecrest is also walled up tighter than a drum for entering but their residents are advising us that we'd better let them use our community paths and bridges or else.... Really?

The liability and implications of The Villages allowing access to non-Villagers through that terrible trail, I would think, are huge. It was a short-cut that has been removed and rather than blame The Villages, why not take a look at the neighboring property owner who brought this upon you. He could get busy and build some highway bridges with his money to make life easier for all of us. It's not up to the Morse's to provide private access to The Villages for surrounding developments.

This "dictator" garbage gets a little old, this is an enclosed community and a gap has been repaired.

Most of all, remember many of us in The Villages struggle with issues that make everyday living difficult. Problems don't start and end at the Historic section. Advising the rest of The Villagers to stay out of it and to suck it up because the Historic section should have special treatment over the rest of The Villagers is divisive.

I feel the wall should stand at this point, it's time to close the hole. I wish the wall could be placed at the end of the medical complex so people could easily access those facilities. Perhaps if all the raging and ranting were directed at finding a solution for transportation to the stores and back, people would less frightened and more hopeful. And I do hope good remedies are found for another life change.

I've never talked to someone from Stonecrest or Spruc Creek South that demanded the Villages allow them access to Village's facilities. Those communities are differently managed compared to the Villages. Spruc Creek South and Stonecrest are privately owned by the residents and the developer completely. No tax dollars are used for any info structure. If there is a problem with the roads these people pay to have them repaired directly. There are no public roads in these facilities. This is why access is so tight. Also I believe the Golf Course and restaurant are open to the public if they care to use them within these facilities.

[njbchbum]

Where is there a Lowes on 466? Also, do you really think the majority of people living in Orange Blossom want to drive their carts all the way up there?

there is no lowe's on 466...guess you missed the posts where i was already corrected twice on that post...so don't go looking for it. please.

there is, however, a walmart there...and for those folks living in the historic villages who have no car and do not drive - that is their only choice if they still want to shop at a walmart without imposing on a friend or calling for two taxis...doesn't matter it they want to go that far or not - now they have to - unless they are game enough to take a chance on the 'workaround'! ;)

[scres]

[QUOTE=Indydealmaker;724878]Consider that if that path was an official multimodal path, it would have been paved. A dirt path sure sounds temporary to me regardless of how long it had been that way. Obviously, cost would not have been a factor.

Maybe you need to check out the path between Orange Blossom and the Medical Center. It is a paved, lighted path and looks fairly permanent to me.

[wendyquat]

I wrote to the TV stations last night. That seemed to do some good. All we can hope for is the negative publicity and maybe a surrender?

Anyone working for TVillages can't comment for fear of losing their jobs. How sad...

Sound familiar?

[Peachie]

I've never talked to someone from Stonecrest or Spruc Creek South that demanded the Villages allow them access to Village's facilities. Those communities are differently managed compared to the Villages. Spruc Creek South and Stonecrest are privately owned by the residents and the developer completely. No tax dollars are used for any info structure. If there is a problem with the roads these people pay to have them repaired directly. There are no public roads in these facilities. This is why access is so tight. Also I believe the Golf Course and restaurant are open to the public if they care to use them within these facilities.


Steve, I fully understand why those two subdivisions are private but the cart paths in The Villages are not built and maintained with tax dollars either, they are private also.

This quote below is from this thread and is what makes me think that there are Stonecrest residents who planned their travel by using the private pathways in The Villages. Village residents have not been granted reciprocity by Stonecrest to use their streets.

The quote: "While we do not live in the villages. We do most of our grocery shopping ,dining out, go to the farmers market, purchase from the venders at the squares, and purchase from the various retailers in the villages. With the golf cart access blocked we will no longer be able to help support theses business. While we will miss the villages it will be at the expense of the businesses in the villages. We are sure there are a great number of people living here that feel the same way." End of quote.


Surely Stonecrest residents understand why the Morse's may not want to subsidize their lifestyle and travel on our private paths anymore than Stonecrest residents want to subsidize Villagers using their streets.

[chuckinca]

Cart travel from Stonecrest to Spanish Springs and Lake Sumpter Landing could be done using the dirt (aka sand) and paved trails with approval of all owners/public roads from Walmart to the now blocked cart access to Paradise Drive and from there on public streets and the cart bridge over 441/27, a public highway. Use of Villages owned intermodal paths is not required and not an issue concerning access to Paradise Drive - a public roadway.

Blocking public access to public roadways is illegal as noted in the prior noted order by the Town of Lady Lake to remove the cart gate at the access to Paradise drive and the requirement that all Villages gates can be opened by a push button on the gate.

Mr Morse: TAKE DOWN YOUR ILLEGAL WALL!

.

[ttown]

Good question. The path was paved with pavers and well landscaped. The grass along the sides was mowed.Who payed for it?
Anytime people from Stonecrest, Spruce Creek, Water Oak, Harbor Hills ,etc, want to get to Village facilities they can hop in a car.
The only unpaved section of the whole trip to Lowes was a small section just before entering the road to the stores. From Aldis to Walmart was also not paved.

[nitakk]

Nothing in the paper again today, although I spoke with the Sun's photog at the rally yesterday morning. I guess they think if they ignore this long enough, we will give up - the arrogance and disregard for us is shameful.

[Peachie]

Cart travel from Stonecrest to Spanish Springs and Lake Sumpter Landing could be done using the dirt (aka sand) and paved trails with approval of all owners/public roads from Walmart to the now blocked cart access to Paradise Drive and from there on public streets and the cart bridge over 441/27, a public highway. Use of Villages owned intermodal paths is not required and not an issue concerning access to Paradise Drive - a public roadway.

Blocking public access to public roadways is illegal as noted in the prior noted order by the Town of Lady Lake to remove the cart gate at the access to Paradise drive and the requirement that all Villages gates can be opened by a push button on the gate.

Mr Morse: TAKE DOWN YOUR ILLEGAL WALL!

.

Chuckinca, I could be wrong but isn't the cement path from the medical complex to the streets private and also the blacktop path from the street all the way over to the bridge private also? Is the bridge public or private? I think it's pretty much the way the rest of The Villages operates.

[rubicon]

I'll post this again, I still think there is easement there! This should by fodder for the POA's lawyers.

Easement by estoppel

When a property owner misrepresents the existence of an easement while selling a property and does not include an express easement in the deed to the buyer, the court may step in and create an easement. Easements by estoppel generally look to any promises not made in writing, any money spent by the benefiting party in reliance on the representations of the burdened party. If the court finds that the buyer acted in good faith and relied on the seller's promises, the court will create an easement by estoppel.

For example: Ray sells land to Joe on the promise that Joe can use Ray's driveway and bridge to the main road at anytime, but Ray does not include the easement in the deed to the land. Joe, deciding that the land is now worth the price, builds a house and connects a garage to Ray's driveway. If Ray (or his successors) later decides to gate off the driveway and prevents Joe (or Joe's successors) from accessing the driveway, a court would likely find an easement by estoppel.

Because Joe purchased the land assuming that there would be access to the bridge and the driveway and Joe then paid for a house and a connection, Joe can be said to rely on Ray's promise of an easement. Ray materially misrepresented the facts to Joe. In order to preserve equity, the court will likely find an easement by estoppel.

On the other hand, if Ray had offered access to the bridge and driveway after selling Joe the land, there may not be an easement by estoppel. In this instance, it is merely inconvenient if Ray revokes access to the driveway. Joe did not purchase the land and build the house in reliance on access to the driveway and bridge. Joe will need to find a separate theory to justify an easement.

Very nice text book example, however, who are the implied parties to this contract and how do you know the contract was breached creating an estoppel?????????

The more I hear about this issue the more I am convinced that something else is going on and the wall placement is justified.

The faux excuses of the wall preventing people access amounts mostly to I want it my way or the highway rationalizations and it is creating unnecessary bad publicity for The Villages. In that I respectively ask those people who do not live in The Villages from fueling the fires

Again I believe the Developer is an excellent businessman and if anyone thinks he would be foolish enough to leave himself exposed, well there is this bridge in Brooklyn

[buggyone]

The more I hear about this issue the more I am convinced that something else is going on and the wall placement is justified.
Again I believe the Developer is an excellent businessman and if anyone thinks he would be foolish enough to leave himself exposed, well there is this bridge in Brooklyn

Absolutely right. Also, do not forget that the Developer has an excellent team of well-paid attorneys if there would be any legal challenges.

[Steve9930]

Steve, I fully understand why those two subdivisions are private but the cart paths in The Villages are not built and maintained with tax dollars either, they are private also.

This quote below is from this thread and is what makes me think that there are Stonecrest residents who planned their travel by using the private pathways in The Villages. Village residents have not been granted reciprocity by Stonecrest to use their streets.

The quote: "While we do not live in the villages. We do most of our grocery shopping ,dining out, go to the farmers market, purchase from the venders at the squares, and purchase from the various retailers in the villages. With the golf cart access blocked we will no longer be able to help support theses business. While we will miss the villages it will be at the expense of the businesses in the villages. We are sure there are a great number of people living here that feel the same way." End of quote.


Surely Stonecrest residents understand why the Morse's may not want to subsidize their lifestyle and travel on our private paths anymore than Stonecrest residents want to subsidize Villagers using their streets.

I read the post about the individual that will no longer be making purchases because the entrance was closed. A little bit of frustration between the lines. The bottom line is all the cart paths in the Villages are not engineered to only allow Village Residents. Whether the wall is up or down really makes little difference. They are all mostly accessible. From what I read in other post seems to indicate that since this path connects to a public road it is not legal to restrict access. Well most of the paths within the Villages all connect to legal roads so they are all in the same boat so to speak. Since that is the case I'm wondering why the Villagers have to pay for all the cart paths. Seems like it should be the counties responsibility and maintained with tax dollars. As for access into StoneCrest via Golf Cart you can do exactly that if you go to the front gate and enter that way. There is no restriction from going to the restaurant or the Golf course.