Cart path closing

[bkcunningham1]

Driving on Paradise Drive in the Historic Side this afternoon, we noticed signs and gates at the entrance to the path that goes all the way to Lowe's and Walmart along st. Rt. 441. The sign says: Construction Alert! This path will be closed at 6 a.m. Saturday August 10.

The gates will block entry from Paradise to the path that TV maintains which has pavers and lights. It goes into the parking lot for several medical offices before going through the recently paved path by the new assisted living facility and onto Lowe's.

Curious as to what was going on, I called someone I know who works for the VCDD and was told that the Villages Hospital owns the property and the powers-that-be are closing access to golf carts to that area permanently. Why? I don't know.

I am very upset and confused. Does anyone know anything more about this? Not only will it prevent Villagers from going by cart to many, many businesses and doctors' offices, it will prevent people in the other neighboring developments from coming into TV on their golf carts.

Why?

closing1_zps0cf58468.jpg Photo by bkcunningham1 | Photobucket (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/bkcunningham1/media/closing1_zps0cf58468.jpg.html)

[OldManTime]

I went through there this afternoon, its for saturday only as I read it.

[bkcunningham1]

That isn't what District Property Management told my friend who works for the VCDD.

[PaPaLarry]

Driving on Paradise Drive in the Historic Side this afternoon, we noticed signs and gates at the entrance to the path that goes all the way to Lowe's and Walmart along st. Rt. 441. The sign says: Construction Alert! This path will be closed at 6 a.m. Saturday August 10.

The gates will block entry from Paradise to the path that TV maintains which has pavers and lights. It goes into the parking lot for several medical offices before going through the recently paved path by the new assisted living facility and onto Lowe's.

Curious as to what was going on, I called someone I know who works for the VCDD and was told that the Villages Hospital owns the property and the powers-that-be are closing access to golf carts to that area permanently. Why? I don't know.

I am very upset and confused. Does anyone know anything more about this? Not only will it prevent Villagers from going by cart to many, many businesses and doctors' offices, it will prevent people in the other neighboring developments from coming into TV on their golf carts.

Why?

closing1_zps0cf58468.jpg Photo by bkcunningham1 | Photobucket (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/bkcunningham1/media/closing1_zps0cf58468.jpg.html)
If you go to Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org) you might be able to find out all that information

[rhood]

So, you heard it third hand and are posting it here as fact?

That isn't what District Property Management told my friend who works for the VCDD.

[NoMoSno]

Lets hope its just temporary to install posts to prevent cars from crossing through. Looks like that has been happening. (scrapes on the center curb).
Just takes a few bad apples to ruin it for everybody...

[Arctic Fox]

...the Villages Hospital owns the property and the powers-that-be are closing access to golf carts to that area permanently...

seems unlikely, in that the Villages Hospital has recently been advising people to use their Urgent Care facility (rather than ER) for non-emergencies, and that is only accessible in a golf cart by using this pathway

however, stranger things have happened!

[ssmith]

PLZ give BK a break, he just wanted to know what others knew of the situation and he was asking the question anyway. It definitely affect many if it was closed.

[bkcunningham1]

There is now a concrete wall blocking entry. What a sad shame. No warning. No explanation. I don't see anything on the VCDD website. But I called the VCDD and got the information that is will not reopen. Because of Florida's Sunshine Laws, they are very upfront with information and they contacted the proper channels. I don't consider it third-hand information. It is facts.

Thank you ssmith. You are very fair and very kind. BTW. I'm a she.

[Midvale]

There is now a concrete wall blocking entry. What a sad shame. No warning. No explanation. I don't see anything on the VCDD website. But I called the VCDD and got the information that is will not reopen. Because of Florida's Sunshine Laws, they are very upfront with information and they contacted the proper channels. I don't consider it third-hand information. It is facts.


Gee this is bad news.

[NoMoSno]

Just returned from there.
Construction crew was there, said the closing is permanent, they had instructions to build a wall.
Seems like we are not in a golf cart friendly community, as we had thought.
Hope this can be resolved , somehow...

[gocubsgo]

We were just there in our cart. There must have been 15-20 carts sitting there AND a couple stuck on the other side of this wall!!! These people worked at Walmart and Lowe's and got walled out! How are they supposed to get home now? This is a golf cart community. One woman was in tears because she doesn't have a car and that's where her Dr is !

A VERY bad idea that no doubt will bring in a lot of calls and complaints. What was TV thinking doing this???

[bkcunningham1]

We were just there in our cart. There must have been 15-20 carts sitting there AND a couple stuck on the other side of this wall!!! These people worked at Walmart and Lowe's and got walled out! How are they supposed to get home now? This is a golf cart community. One woman was in tears because she doesn't have a car and that's where her Dr is !

A VERY bad idea that no doubt will bring in a lot of calls and complaints. What was TV thinking doing this???

It is mind-boggling to us too. We have friends whose adult daughter is handicapped and works at Walmart. She drives a golf cart and it gives her great independence. I thought of them first and other friends who don't have autos who will be negatively impacted by this crazy fence.

[ssmith]

seems I have confused BK 1 with BK2. Sorry

[Harry Gilbert]

The question is:

Are they trying to keep people in or are they trying to keep people out?

[Arctic Fox]

any news on the proposal to allow golf carts to cross 441?

maybe we will (eventually) be able to get to Lowes/Aldi/WalMart in our golf carts that way

[bkcunningham1]

Why would they want to keep people out? There has to be way more to it than just a fence. There's things going on behind the scenes we don't, and may never know. Of course, my first thought goes to the fact that paths lead to properties and businesses not owned by "The Developer." But it is cutting off your nose to spite your face to keep people from coming into The Villages via golf cart to businesses owned by The Developer. What would be the point?

[Schaumburger]

We were just there in our cart. There must have been 15-20 carts sitting there AND a couple stuck on the other side of this wall!!! These people worked at Walmart and Lowe's and got walled out! How are they supposed to get home now? This is a golf cart community. One woman was in tears because she doesn't have a car and that's where her Dr is !

A VERY bad idea that no doubt will bring in a lot of calls and complaints. What was TV thinking doing this???

I feel bad for the people who don't have cars.

[graciegirl]

Are there two BkCunninghams?

Did the developers build the wall or did the people who run the hospitals and run the assisted living facility build the wall?

I can't imagine that blocking a golf cart path would be advantageous to us villagers....Does it block Orange Blossom Hills and Country Club Estates AND Stonecrest?

Where is Edvin Mass when you need him to tell us what is happening with the cart paths. Is this the SAME cart path that he was updating us on?

Inquiring minds want to know. Meanwhile carry on with speculation.

[jkpender]

As the jingle on The Villages Website goes "The Villages, Florida's Friendliest Hometown"...maybe not! To paraphrase former President Reagan, "Mr. Morse tear down this wall!".

[bkcunningham1]

Are there two BkCunninghams?

Did the developers build the wall or did the people who run the hospitals and run the assisted living facility build the wall?

I can't imagine that blocking a golf cart path would be advantageous to us villagers....Does it block Orange Blossom Hills and Country Club Estates AND Stonecrest?

Where is Edvin Mass when you need him to tell us what is happening with the cart paths. Is this the SAME cart path that he was updating us on?

Inquiring minds want to know. Meanwhile carry on with speculation.

There is only one bkcunningham.

The wall is a precast concrete wall panel that matches the existing wall running behind homes in TV now. It was lifted into place with either a crane or a large forklift.

It is at the entrance to TV property.

It is not near Stonecrest.

It isn't the place that Ed was talking about. That was at Walmart. The wall blocks carts from leaving out an existing cart path to the medical facilities and other businesses that run along st. Rt. 441 between Boone Gate and Sonic Drive-In and beyond. Stonecrest residents can no longer come into TV via golf carts through the gate and the path because of the concrete wall.

[Arctic Fox]

well I've just re-read The Daily Sun and there's nothing on it there, so it can't be true :-)


anyway, how best to proceed?

mass civil disobedience - meet in our golf carts at Buenos Aires and keep crossing 441 every time the lights are green?

everyone send an e-mail to VCCDD asking what is going on, and how soon it is going to be fixed?

contact ABC/CBS/NBC saying that "Florida's Friendliest Hometown" and "World's Largest Golf-Cart Friendly Community" has cut its 70,000 golf-cart owners off from their Urgent Care Facility?


oh, I forgot - there is a shuttle from the hospital to that urgent care facility - like you want to wait for a bus when you need urgent care!

[buggyone]

Does this golf cart path that is now walled off go from non-Villages property to Villages property? It certainly is on private property unlike the roadway system which is public property. Maybe it was felt since it is private property that a cart path connecting non-Villages land to Villages land could be a liability issue.

The Villages, itself, is a golf cart friendly community but does not have to connect with non-Villages property via golf cart.

If the people from outside The Villages want to visit on their golf carts to enjoy all of our entertainment - let them move here like we did. If they do not want that, they can use their car and still be very welcome.

[joycem]

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE SHAME...they cut off our access to all the stores and especially the urgent care facility...its not bad enough they are distroying the church to make more money for another savannah center... THIS IS NO LONGER FLORIDAS FRIENDLIEST HOME TOWN.. they people in here then they take stuff away...access to this golf cart path was a huge part of all of our lives...I hope we can somehow find an alternative...

[bkcunningham1]

Does this golf cart path that is now walled off go from non-Villages property to Villages property? It certainly is on private property unlike the roadway system which is public property. Maybe it was felt since it is private property that a cart path connecting non-Villages land to Villages land could be a liability issue.

The Villages, itself, is a golf cart friendly community but does not have to connect with non-Villages property via golf cart.

If the people from outside The Villages want to visit on their golf carts to enjoy all of our entertainment - let them move here like we did. If they do not want that, they can use their car and still be very welcome.

Bugs, the new wall stops carts from leaving TV property and going along an existing cart path to The Villages Regional Medical Center East Campus which is Belle Cruz Drive.

[joycem]

I am totally upset about this..we all depend on that path for easy access to stores and lets hope someone comes to their senses...but they are taking the square church away so whats next...

[njbchbum]

any news on the proposal to allow golf carts to cross 441?

maybe we will (eventually) be able to get to Lowes/Aldi/WalMart in our golf carts that way

Why would they want to keep people out? There has to be way more to it than just a fence. There's things going on behind the scenes we don't, and may never know. Of course, my first thought goes to the fact that paths lead to properties and businesses not owned by "The Developer." But it is cutting off your nose to spite your face to keep people from coming into The Villages via golf cart to businesses owned by The Developer. What would be the point?

seems to me that the developer has insured that if residents want to shop at walmart and lowes, etc they will hafta shop at the ones within the villages rather than the stores convenient to the historic neighborhoods. and the developer has done what can be done to prevent $$ being spent at aldi and any of the restaurants along the now walled-off route.

new job oppty for someone to start a car service with trips to businesses along 441/27!

[ttown]

Do this right. Contact the HOA. the POA , the AAC, the CIC and any other organization that you know to fix this. Who did this and why? Like many many others, I am upset by this.

[bkcunningham1]

seems to me that the developer has insured that if residents want to shop at walmart and lowes, etc they will hafta shop at the ones within the villages rather than the stores convenient to the historic neighborhoods. and the developer has done what can be done to prevent $$ being spent at aldi and any of the restaurants along the now walled-off route.

new job oppty for someone to start a car service with trips to businesses along 441/27!

I said that to my stepdaughter yesterday, njbchbum. She said her heart was breaking for people who don't have cars and who depend on Aldi's----that and she can't borrow a golf cart and go to Sonic anymore.

[bkcunningham1]

Do this right. Contact the HOA. the POA , the AAC, the CIC and any other organization that you know to fix this. Who did this and why? Like many many others, I am upset by this.

Monday morning will be a day for phone calls and trying to sort out the who and why. We know the when, where and what part of the investigation.

[gocubsgo]

Just came back from Lowe's...in my car...and out of curiosity I drove past there. There are 6 people stuck on the other side, one has called the police and on TV side I counted 26 carts lined up and tempers flaring. No warning, nothing in the precious Villages Sun and no notice...just slapped up the wall and stuck a sign in the ground. Wanna take bets on how long it is before we see graffiti on that damn thing?

[bkcunningham1]

Just came back from Lowe's...in my car...and out of curiosity I drove past there. There are 6 people stuck on the other side, one has called the police and on TV side I counted 26 carts lined up and tempers flaring. No warning, nothing in the precious Villages Sun and no notice...just slapped up the wall and stuck a sign in the ground. Wanna take bets on how long it is before we see graffiti on that damn thing?

I wish you had taken photos. We are going out to drive around there now and I will take photos. I just have such a hard time posting them. I will put them on Photobucket and link it when I get back. Mr. Morse, take down that wall. That was a good one! LOL

[JeffAVEWS]

I wonder if it's easement? Was there ever a building permit to put up that dam Wall?
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/jeffavews-27263/albums/wall/4846t-p08-10-13-11-52.jpg

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/jeffavews-27263/albums/wall-863/4848-p08-10-13-11-55/

[zcaveman]

Mr. Morse, take down that wall. That was a good one! LOL

:BigApplause: :BigApplause: :bigbow:

[JeffAVEWS]

Link will show the Wall https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/jeffavews-27263/albums/wall-863/4848-p08-10-13-11-55/

[joycem]

I am not sure what the florida sunshine law is, but it seems to apply only to public meetings...If the hospital wants us to use urgent care why would they want to make it impossible to get there by golf cart?...lets hope we can get some alternative route...thats what makes it so desirable here, easy access on golf cart...:

[gocubsgo]

If the hospital is worried because people are migrating to Ocala for health care, then why put up a wall and block everyone from going to the medical buildings on the other side??

[Arctic Fox]

Link will show the Wall

does Home Depot hire out bulldozers by the hour?

[gocubsgo]

I wonder if it's easement? Was there ever a building permit to put up that dam Wall?
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/jeffavews-27263/albums/wall/4846t-p08-10-13-11-52.jpg

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/jeffavews-27263/albums/wall-863/4848-p08-10-13-11-55/

One lady told me they put up that sign at 7AM this morning. I was able to get through 3 days ago and that sign was not there.

[champion6]

does Home Depot hire out bulldozers by the hour?I'm sure you meant Lowe's because it's right there. :thumbup:

[NoMoSno]

does Home Depot hire out bulldozers by the hour?
Looks like the concrete is still "green".
20 or 30 people could probably push it over. :highfive:

[drooney60@hotmail.com]

We tried to go to Walmart this morning and yes indeed there was a cement wall there. Alot of folks had to back up and were really upset. My thoughts are why didn't they notify us in someway that this was going to happen! It wouldn't have been such a shock! How do we get to Walmart now???

[bkcunningham1]

Here's a link for photos of the wall: wall_zps4150e472.jpg Photo by bkcunningham1 | Photobucket (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/bkcunningham1/media/wall_zps4150e472.jpg.html)

[buggyone]

We tried to go to Walmart this morning and yes indeed there was a cement wall there. Alot of folks had to back up and were really upset. My thoughts are why didn't they notify us in someway that this was going to happen! It wouldn't have been such a shock! How do we get to Walmart now???


Uh, maybe your car? If you do not have a car, there is a taxi. You never were promised a golf cart path to businesses outside The Villages.

[gocubsgo]

Uh, maybe your car? If you do not have a car, there is a taxi. You never were promised a golf cart path to businesses outside The Villages.

What about the poor woman this morning who had no car and couldn't afford a taxi ? What is she supposed to do? Bum rides from neighbors everytime she wants to shop or go to the Dr?

[Halibut]

You never were promised a golf cart path to businesses outside The Villages.

I think there was an implied contract to everyone who bought a house there with cart access already established.

[CFrance]

oh, I forgot - there is a shuttle from the hospital to that urgent care facility - like you want to wait for a bus when you need urgent care!

[QUOTE=joycem;723194]THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE SHAME...they cut off our access to all the stores and especially the urgent care facility..."

If I ever get hurt and need to get to an Urgent Care facility, I...

a) probably would not be at the ER to get a shuttle, and

2) wouldn't want someone taking me to it in a golf cart!

[njbchbum]

We tried to go to Walmart this morning and yes indeed there was a cement wall there. Alot of folks had to back up and were really upset. My thoughts are why didn't they notify us in someway that this was going to happen! It wouldn't have been such a shock! How do we get to Walmart now???

you will have to go to the developer's/village's walmart at the end of 466 - by golden corral. will hafta use their lowe's store and bealls, too.

[njbchbum]

One lady told me they put up that sign at 7AM this morning. I was able to get through 3 days ago and that sign was not there.

bkcunningham posted the sign/gate yesterday...donn't know what day it was put up there.

[duffysmom]

I'm sad to hear this. We were going to Lowe's for flowers today but changed our minds. The poor people who are now stranded on the wrong side have a problem. Of course they didn't advertise the closing, they knew there would be an uproar. Yes, it looks like they constructed a continuation of the wall where once there was an opening, there is no way around it.:grumpy:

[Bogie Shooter]

We tried to go to Walmart this morning and yes indeed there was a cement wall there. Alot of folks had to back up and were really upset. My thoughts are why didn't they notify us in someway that this was going to happen! It wouldn't have been such a shock! How do we get to Walmart now???

By car.

[graciegirl]

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE SHAME...they cut off our access to all the stores and especially the urgent care facility...its not bad enough they are distroying the church to make more money for another savannah center... THIS IS NO LONGER FLORIDAS FRIENDLIEST HOME TOWN.. they people in here then they take stuff away...access to this golf cart path was a huge part of all of our lives...I hope we can somehow find an alternative...

PLEASE. The church had one service a week and rotating leaders doing it. It was always a venue for musical performances. It was enlarged because people wanted it enlarged and Mark Morse volunteered to make it bigger a couple of years ago but the committee wanting a lollapalooza performance center initially turned him down because it wasn't big enough. So it is now being enlarged because people wanted a bigger place. The performances there range from just a couple of bucks to quite a lot for season tickets to the Villages Philharmonic which is incredibly good and a plus for our community.

Let's not get off track here. Can someone post a map of the new Berlin wall and where it is in relation to the rest of the world so we can all be hysterical?

[graciegirl]

I'm sad to hear this. We were going to Lowe's for flowers today but changed our minds. The poor people who are now stranded on the wrong side have a problem. Of course they didn't advertise the closing, they knew there would be an uproar. Yes, it looks like they constructed a continuation of the wall where once there was an opening, there is no way around it.:grumpy:

Duffy's mom. Can't people cross the street there on 441? Wasn't that a new deal that you could? Couldn't people cross the golf cart bridge then to go out and get home? They can't get to Lowes by golf cart but they aren't like REALLY stranded there, are they?

I am waiting to understand this better. Where is MeMason with a map??? Or someone who is map savvy? We need a map before the uprising.

[Arctic Fox]

I'm sure you meant Lowe's because it's right there.

Catch-22 - I can't get to Lowes now because I don't have a car...

...although a number of people (not affected by this wall issue) seem to be offering free lifts in their cars, unless I'm mis-reading their posts?

[njbchbum]

Catch-22 - I can't get to Lowes now because I don't have a car...

...although a number of people (not affected by this wall issue) seem to be offering free lifts in their cars, unless I'm mis-reading their posts?

artic fox - there is both a walmart and a lowe's on 466 out by the golden corral restaurant that can be reached by golf cart...not as convenient as 441...but now your $$ can be kept within the villages. there is a bells out there, too.

[Arctic Fox]

You never were promised a golf cart path to businesses outside The Villages.

I wasn't promised anything when I bought here - not a cart bridge over 441, not a tunnel under 466, not a causeway across Lake Sumter - but I have a right to feel aggrieved when something that was in place when I bought is suddenly taken away

with no alternative provided

with no notice or consultation

and probably solely for commercial reasons

I bought here because I could get everywhere I wanted in my golf cart without the need for a car - change that and you change the whole atmosphere of The Villages

The sad thing is that the developer of the new assisted living development on the way to Lowes seemed to go out of his way to ensure continued golf cart access - I even had high hopes that the whole route would eventually be on paved roads.


Many Villagers living south of 466 have probably never used the path that has been blocked, so may not be able to empathize with those of us who used it regularly as a part of our normal routine

It will be a major loss to us

[champion6]

a lowe's on 466 out by the golden corral restaurant that can be reached by golf cartNope, there is NO Lowe's there.

[Arctic Fox]

artic fox - there is both a walmart and a lowe's on 466 out by the golden corral restaurant that can be reached by golf cart...not as convenient as 441...but now your $$ can be kept within the villages. there is a bells out there, too.

I do prefer the 466 Walmart anyway (and I wasn't aware that there is a Lowe's out there - where is it, in relation to the WalMart?) but I do like Aldi's for fresh fruit and veg.

Not the end of the World - at least, not for me - but a shame that the change has been made, and in such an underhand way

who knows what will be next?

[ajbrown]

That is a bummer for sure. Will be interesting if we ever learn why. I I have the correct place, here a map showing the cart path....

Click on the link then zoom in or out

Existing golf cart path (http://goo.gl/maps/oSkbB)

[njbchbum]

Duffy's mom. Can't people cross the street there on 441? Wasn't that a new deal that you could? Couldn't people cross the golf cart bridge then to go out and get home? They can't get to Lowes by golf cart but they aren't like REALLY stranded there, are they?

I am waiting to understand this better. Where is MeMason with a map??? Or someone who is map savvy? We need a map before the uprising.

gracie - here's the link to the carting in the villages map: Carting The Villages -Home (http://cartingthevillages.com/index.php)

slide the map over until you see the golf cart bridge over 441; now imagine coming over the bridge and making a left onto paradise dr.; follow along the green route to the blue thingie just past the tacks for the paradise rec center on the right and softball fields on the left; the blue thingie is the path where the wal has been erected blocking continued travel on to the shopping centers for rt 441 lowe's, walmart, cracker barrel, sonic, etc. hope ya know where you are new! ;)

and no - as of today one cannot cross 441 in any area of the villages - unless and until the county gives permission to do so. only 441 crossing is up the road aways - in summerfield, i think.

[dgammon6]

Looking at the pictures, it appears the wall is off Villages property. Perhaps the owner of the property that connects to the Villages wanted golf cart traffic stopped.

[njbchbum]

Nope, there is NO Lowe's there.

thanx for the correction, champion6! now i have revealed my prowess with home improvement project! good thing i can fix most anything with one finger - and a phone!

[champion6]

Looking at the pictures, it appears the wall is off Villages property. Perhaps the owner of the property that connects to the Villages wanted golf cart traffic stopped.TV owns the property on BOTH SIDES. The south side is obviously TV residential. Parcel on the north side is owned by TV Regional Hospital.

[English Ivy]

PLEASE. The church had one service a week and rotating leaders doing it. It was always a venue for musical performances. It was enlarged because people wanted it enlarged and Mark Morse volunteered to make it bigger a couple of years ago but the committee wanting a lollapalooza performance center initially turned him down because it wasn't big enough. So it is now being enlarged because people wanted a bigger place. The performances there range from just a couple of bucks to quite a lot for season tickets to the Villages Philharmonic which is incredibly good and a plus for our community.

Let's not get off track here. Can someone post a map of the new Berlin wall and where it is in relation to the rest of the world so we can all be hysterical?

Gracie I suggest you read this history of St. George Episcopal Church of The Villages, how it was started and how they held their weekly services at the Church on the Square for nearly five years. Their congregation and first priest had input into the design of the Church on the Square and the Episcopal Diocese even gave the developer a $25,000 "start-up" loan for construction (the loan was repaid).

So I'm not too sure about your assertion that the Church on the Square was always a venue for musical performances.

History (http://www.stgeorge-episcopal.net/history.htm)

[Topspinmo]

Do this right. Contact the HOA. the POA , the AAC, the CIC and any other organization that you know to fix this. Who did this and why? Like many many others, I am upset by this.

Yea! don't forget use scooter drivers also. we want to be treated like all other villager's and not be discriminated again just cause we choose scooters. Equal rights for ALL"""""

[janmcn]

gracie - here's the link to the carting in the villages map: Carting The Villages -Home (http://cartingthevillages.com/index.php)

slide the map over until you see the golf cart bridge over 441; now imagine coming over the bridge and making a left onto paradise dr.; follow along the green route to the blue thingie just past the tacks for the paradise rec center on the right and softball fields on the left; the blue thingie is the path where the wal has been erected blocking continued travel on to the shopping centers for rt 441 lowe's, walmart, cracker barrel, sonic, etc. hope ya know where you are new! ;)

and no - as of today one cannot cross 441 in any area of the villages - unless and until the county gives permission to do so. only 441 crossing is up the road aways - in summerfield, i think.


So the people that have golf carts stuck on the other side of the wall have absolutely no way of getting their carts home except for having them hauled by truck, correct?

PS: Are you the mysterious power ball winner that hasn't come forward yet?

[njbchbum]

So the people that have golf carts stuck on the other side of the wall have absolutely no way of getting their carts home except for having them hauled by truck, correct?

PS: Are you the mysterious power ball winner that hasn't come forward yet?

janmcn - that's what i guessed! have not heard of a resolution to that one yet.

p.s.: wish that i was that winner! i would have taken over the hilltop restaurant and tiki bar!!! :)

[LndLocked]

I thought that I read that one of the provisions in building the new residential care facility in that area was to not only assure cart access to the Lowes/Beals and points south ... but to improve what had been a long bumpy dirt path??

The cavalier attitude of several posters on this thread that have not relied on this cart access is sad. I would say disappointing, but I have come to expect it from them .... however, I will no longer have to read their postings unless someone quotes them.

[JeffAVEWS]

I think there was an established easement, from Wikipedia

"Easement by estoppel

When a property owner misrepresents the existence of an easement while selling a property and does not include an express easement in the deed to the buyer, the court may step in and create an easement. Easements by estoppel generally look to any promises not made in writing, any money spent by the benefiting party in reliance on the representations of the burdened party. If the court finds that the buyer acted in good faith and relied on the seller's promises, the court will create an easement by estoppel.

For example: Ray sells land to Joe on the promise that Joe can use Ray's driveway and bridge to the main road at anytime, but Ray does not include the easement in the deed to the land. Joe, deciding that the land is now worth the price, builds a house and connects a garage to Ray's driveway. If Ray (or his successors) later decides to gate off the driveway and prevents Joe (or Joe's successors) from accessing the driveway, a court would likely find an easement by estoppel.

Because Joe purchased the land assuming that there would be access to the bridge and the driveway and Joe then paid for a house and a connection, Joe can be said to rely on Ray's promise of an easement. Ray materially misrepresented the facts to Joe. In order to preserve equity, the court will likely find an easement by estoppel.

On the other hand, if Ray had offered access to the bridge and driveway after selling Joe the land, there may not be an easement by estoppel. In this instance, it is merely inconvenient if Ray revokes access to the driveway. Joe did not purchase the land and build the house in reliance on access to the driveway and bridge. Joe will need to find a separate theory to justify an easement."

[ttown]

Great post Arctic Fox! As to access...I have faith that the Villagers will find a way to get there. Legal or not. Safe or not...I have already seen this.
Just wish we knew who and what was behind this .

[ttown]

Great post Arctic Fox.
As to access...I am sure Villages will find a way to get there. Legal or not. Safe or not. I have already seen this .
Just wish i knew the reasoning behind this.

[janmcn]

Isn't it interesting that this change was scheduled for 6:00am Saturday morning when all the management offices are closed for the week-end, and no one is available to answer any questions or complaints?

It seems that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office could be called out to assist these cart drivers cross at the light at Lowe's in order to get their carts back home. If they can't, these carts may not be there tomorrow.

This change also effects Stonecrest residents. They will no longer be able to visit the restaurants and shops by golf cart or play golf in TV using their own golf carts.

[Schaumburger]

Isn't it interesting that this change was scheduled for 6:00am Saturday morning when all the management offices are closed for the week-end, and no one is available to answer any questions or complaints?

It seems that the Sumter County Sheriff's Office could be called out to assist these cart drivers cross at the light at Lowe's in order to get their carts back home. If they can't, these carts may not be there tomorrow.

This change also effects Stonecrest residents. They will no longer be able to visit the restaurants and shops by golf cart or play golf in TV using their own golf carts.

I would not want to be the person(s) answering the phones at the various offices that people will be calling on Monday morning...

[janmcn]

The sign they put up was so devious: Construction alert. This path will be closed at 6:00am Sat Aug 10th. Why did they not add for good or forever? Why no advance notice? Construction alert makes it sound temporary.

[Bizdoc]

Before we break out the torches and pitch forks to storm the Dark Lord's castle, you may want to look at the Sumter GIS. I'm not an expert on surveying and property lines, but there's a piece of property where Life Family Practice and Lake ENT are located. If their property includes 1/2 of the circle (which it would if the circle is on an easement), then they could be justified in asking for the path to be closed.

Yeah, it was a sucky way of doing it, but then again, no matter how you shake and bake it, we don't own that chunk of real estate and may or may not have a claim on its use as a cart trail.

If you look at the 2013 $5 map, you will note that it doesn't show a cart path there.

[NoMoSno]

The sign they put up was so devious: Construction alert. This path will be closed at 6:00am Sat Aug 10th. Why did they not add for good or forever? Why no advance notice? Construction alert makes it sound temporary.
I agree.
This has been planned for awhile.
A construction crew does not show up with a precast concrete wall and have it installed in a couple hours, without alot of planning...

[graciegirl]

Gracie I suggest you read this history of St. George Episcopal Church of The Villages, how it was started and how they held their weekly services at the Church on the Square for nearly five years. Their congregation and first priest had input into the design of the Church on the Square and the Episcopal Diocese even gave the developer a $25,000 "start-up" loan for construction (the loan was repaid).

So I'm not too sure about your assertion that the Church on the Square was always a venue for musical performances.

History (http://www.stgeorge-episcopal.net/history.htm)

I did. St. George apparently started in a tent, used two different Villages rec halls and used the church on the square for five years, then built it's own building. In this history it mentions the building was used for a musical venue. The 25K was refunded to the priest if I read this correctly.

I could be horribly wrong and sometimes I am only mostly wrong, but I do think that the church was built as a part of the presentation of a typical old Spanish town that always had a church. If you check back you will see that Harold Schwartz the founder, funded a good deal of the musical presentations from the start at The Church on the Square..

Here is a copy of part of the history of St. George Church you linked above;

The Episcopal congregation shared the building with a non-denominational service and other musical celebrations.


English Ivy. Did you move to Texas? Do you miss The Villages?

[graciegirl]

Before we break out the torches and pitch forks to storm the Dark Lord's castle, you may want to look at the Sumter GIS. I'm not an expert on surveying and property lines, but there's a piece of property where Life Family Practice and Lake ENT are located. If their property includes 1/2 of the circle (which it would if the circle is on an easement), then they could be justified in asking for the path to be closed.

Yeah, it was a sucky way of doing it, but then again, no matter how you shake and bake it, we don't own that chunk of real estate and may or may not have a claim on its use as a cart trail.

If you look at the 2013 $5 map, you will note that it doesn't show a cart path there.

bump

[janmcn]

Before we break out the torches and pitch forks to storm the Dark Lord's castle, you may want to look at the Sumter GIS. I'm not an expert on surveying and property lines, but there's a piece of property where Life Family Practice and Lake ENT are located. If their property includes 1/2 of the circle (which it would if the circle is on an easement), then they could be justified in asking for the path to be closed.

Yeah, it was a sucky way of doing it, but then again, no matter how you shake and bake it, we don't own that chunk of real estate and may or may not have a claim on its use as a cart trail.

If you look at the 2013 $5 map, you will note that it doesn't show a cart path there.


If the Life Family Practice asked for this golf cart path be closed, why was this never published in the Daily Sun so that people could plan ahead and not get stuck behind a cement wall in their golf carts? It seems it would be better PR to put the reason out there ahead of time.

[Mikeod]

Before we break out the torches and pitch forks to storm the Dark Lord's castle, you may want to look at the Sumter GIS. I'm not an expert on surveying and property lines, but there's a piece of property where Life Family Practice and Lake ENT are located. If their property includes 1/2 of the circle (which it would if the circle is on an easement), then they could be justified in asking for the path to be closed.

Yeah, it was a sucky way of doing it, but then again, no matter how you shake and bake it, we don't own that chunk of real estate and may or may not have a claim on its use as a cart trail.

If you look at the 2013 $5 map, you will note that it doesn't show a cart path there.
If I'm looking at the correct area, it appears there are two paths after exiting Paradise Dr. One that passes in front of the new construction and uses the access road toward it before turning toward Lowes. The other passes behind the construction site before going toward Lowes. So maybe there is a liability concern with carts mixing with construction activity and the contractor called for eliminating carts.

That's not say it couldn't have been coordinated better with residents. It is certainly common knowledge that residents, especially those on the historic side, regularly use that method for many services. And it would be prudent for better communication should the change be permanent. Right Daily Sun?

[gocubsgo]

If the contractor wanted to eliminate carts during construction then they would call this temporary, not permanent.

Write a letter to District Administration on the VCDD website. Ask for answers and see if they give any. The least they could do is put SOMETHING in the paper!! Oh wait..they took away something we used and enjoyed...nope! That's "negative and doesn't sell those houses!"

[downeaster]

Before we break out the torches and pitch forks to storm the Dark Lord's castle, you may want to look at the Sumter GIS. I'm not an expert on surveying and property lines, but there's a piece of property where Life Family Practice and Lake ENT are located. If their property includes 1/2 of the circle (which it would if the circle is on an easement), then they could be justified in asking for the path to be closed.

Yeah, it was a sucky way of doing it, but then again, no matter how you shake and bake it, we don't own that chunk of real estate and may or may not have a claim on its use as a cart trail.

If you look at the 2013 $5 map, you will note that it doesn't show a cart path there.

I have looked at the GIS map and the photo BK referred to and it looks to me like the subject wall is on or very close to the Sumter/Lake county line. I don't know if this is fact and even if it is I have no idea of the significance.

I find it hard to believe the Developer would be involved in something that has this much negative impact on The Villages' image.

The fact that it is a concrete, although precast, wall and appears permanent doesn't bode well for those who have relied on its existence for so many years.

[Bogie Shooter]

If the contractor wanted to eliminate carts during construction then they would call this temporary, not permanent.

Write a letter to District Administration on the VCDD website. Ask for answers and see if they give any. The least they could do is put SOMETHING in the paper!! Oh wait..they took away something we used and enjoyed...nope! That's "negative and doesn't sell those houses!"

The VCDD has nothing to do with this, since it is not district property.

[graciegirl]

If the contractor wanted to eliminate carts during construction then they would call this temporary, not permanent.

Write a letter to District Administration on the VCDD website. Ask for answers and see if they give any. The least they could do is put SOMETHING in the paper!! Oh wait..they took away something we used and enjoyed...nope! That's "negative and doesn't sell those houses!"


They don't have to worry about selling houses, they are going like hot cakes these days.....so why do some leap to being so joyous that it could be some vile plot? It sure sounds strange, but how could it benefit the enormously rich Mr. Morse? What could the reason BE????

Is the BRIDGE CLOSED?

Calm. How many would you think don't own cars that live in the Villages of Orange Blossom Hills and Country Club Hills. I don't know of anyone that doesn't own a car so this is a new thought for me and I feel bad for Artic Fox.

We need to find out who really owns the property that the path leads through and we may find a plausible reason. Even if old Gary was as greedy as some say, how in the heck would this help him make money?

Deep Breaths everyone. Think!

[ttown]

Gracie...love your posts.
I've owned here 25 yrs. I personally know of only three people who do not have a car, but there are many others who have difficulty driving in heavy traffic. This is 441, with three lanes of bad traffic. To get from Orange Blossom Gardens, Silverlake or Country Club Hills, we must either cross the bridge or fight traffic. The path was a nice thing for us and especially those who are no longer as sure of their driving. It is just sad.

[Arctic Fox]

Berlin Wall Built (1961): Just past midnight during the night of August 12-13, 1961, East German soldiers and construction workers headed to the border of West and East Berlin. While most Berliners were sleeping, the workers quickly constructed a barrier made of concrete posts and barbed wire along the border.

When Berliners did finally wake, they found themselves stuck on whichever side of the border they had fallen asleep on. For nearly three decades, East Germans would be kept behind this barrier, the Berlin Wall.



While comparing our situation with those who found themselves the "wrong" side of the Berlin Wall is rather disingenuous, the parallels between the construction of each are worthy of our consideration.

And, yes, August 12-13 1961 was a weekend.

[OldManTime]

Yep, a concrete wall has been built. The developer doesn't want any Villager to shop at any other store outside his Walls.

[schwarz]

What about all the folks over here who do NOT own a car...How do they get to their doctor, to Lowes, Walmat Aldi? Anyone care...now you have to drive along the road, which many are already doing and we will certainly do too...

[bkcunningham1]

They don't have to worry about selling houses, they are going like hot cakes these days.....so why do some leap to being so joyous that it could be some vile plot? It sure sounds strange, but how could it benefit the enormously rich Mr. Morse? What could the reason BE????

Is the BRIDGE CLOSED?

Calm. How many would you think don't own cars that live in the Villages of Orange Blossom Hills and Country Club Hills. I don't know of anyone that doesn't own a car so this is a new thought for me and I feel bad for Artic Fox.

We need to find out who really owns the property that the path leads through and we may find a plausible reason. Even if old Gary was as greedy as some say, how in the heck would this help him make money?

Deep Breaths everyone. Think!

From what I'm hearing from many reliable sources, finding out who owns the property that "The Developer" has blocked cart access to and understanding the history of why this property is not part of TV may be the answer to understanding this sad and frustrating situation.

The developer has blocked access to the new assisted living which has advertised as golf cart accessible to and from TV. According to my sources, and yes, take it how you want and research and talk to people on your own, it is a long standing feud between the Morse family and the family who owns this property.

According to at least four different reliable people I've spoken to, it started years ago when this family who owns the commercial property along 441 going to Lowe's and the property with the commercial real estate between TV and Sonic, wouldn't sell the property to "The Developer." There has been bad blood between them for years including a water rights issue that was solved in court, according to my sources.

If it is true, this wall is a low point in the feud, IMHO.

[schwarz]

well said...

[Halibut]

Yeah, it was a sucky way of doing it, but then again, no matter how you shake and bake it, we don't own that chunk of real estate and may or may not have a claim on its use as a cart trail.

Who is "we"?

Personally, I don't own any real property around here except my house.

I also don't own the cart path to LSL but can imagine the outcry if that were permanently blocked without warning.

[Jconn62836]

Maybe the "Villagers" that can should not frequent the businesses that they have been cut off from by this selfish act.

[gocubsgo]

Wow...so we are innocent pawns is a ****ing contest between Morse and the owner of Harbor Chase??

[Mikeod]

It would be telling to see exactly where the wall sits. That is, is it constructed on land that appears to be a continuation of the border behind the homes on Paradise Dr.? Or is it sited just beyond that line on land outside that boundary? That alone may indicate who is behind the change.

[bkcunningham1]

It would be telling to see exactly where the wall sits. That is, is it constructed on land that appears to be a continuation of the border behind the homes on Paradise Dr.? Or is it sited just beyond that line on land outside that boundary? That alone may indicate who is behind the change.

mikeod, the new wall closes the gap between the existing walls that run behind the residences of TV owners. The wall matches the style, color and height of the existing walls. The signs that were put up yesterday advising of the closure were on TV property.

I doubt that anyone but someone associated with The Developer would put the signs on TV property and I doubt that anyone but a representative of TV would put up a wall that matches to a T the existing wall and place it exactly in line with the other walls.

Take a look: wall_zps4150e472.jpg Photo by bkcunningham1 | Photobucket (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/bkcunningham1/media/wall_zps4150e472.jpg.html)

[njbchbum]

If the Life Family Practice asked for this golf cart path be closed, why was this never published in the Daily Sun so that people could plan ahead and not get stuck behind a cement wall in their golf carts? It seems it would be better PR to put the reason out there ahead of time.

i don't understand the thinking that those practices would want to wall themselves off from the villages - some villagers must be their patients - no?

[wendyquat]

you will have to go to the developer's/village's walmart at the end of 466 - by golden corral. will hafta use their lowe's store and bealls, too.

That might be a trick as there is NO Lowes at the nd of 466! Least I haven't found one!

[graciegirl]

O.K. There is no golf cart access to Lowes. Aldi and a doctors office complex and Walmart. Also an assisted living facility? That is the newest thing and possibly linked to that? There is still another Walmart down on 466 that folks can get to, and an Ace Hardware on 466 that is golf cart accessible. Do you think that a good percentage of folks on that side of 441 go to the doctors in that complex or a few? I am trying to figure out just how bad the reality is.

If it was a feud between the Morses and the owners of the property, why did it take this long to block the path if that was the vengeful thing to do. How could it hurt the owners of the property that the Morses didn't like? Do the owners of the property run in and out and visit Orange Blossom? What would be the motive here?

None of this makes sense so far. Maybe the assisted living facility wanted to not have folks running back and forth?

[buggyone]

"The signs that were put up yesterday advising of the closure were on TV property."

If signs were put up yesterday advising of the closure at 6 a.m. on Saturday, why would anyone have taken their cart through and be upset at finding themself not being able to get back in? Plenty of warning was given according to the quoted post (signs put up yesterday). Seems to me if someone was foolish enough to have taken their cart through expecting to use the same way after 6 a.m. Saturday, it is their own fault.

Were some people out extremely early on Saturday or stayed out overnight? Well, they had read the signs advising of the closure and chose to ignore the signs.

[njbchbum]

That might be a trick as there is NO Lowes at the nd of 466! Least I haven't found one!

thanx, wendyquat! champion6 already corrected me!

[wendyquat]

Maybe the "Villagers" that can should not frequent the businesses that they have been cut off from by this selfish act.

No way I will boycott Cracker Barrel! Only place I can find decent cornbread!:mmmm:

[wendyquat]

I'm sure there is something we aren't aware of yet but if I see the missing cowboy statue sitting on that wall I'm going to be upset!:throwtomatoes:

[njbchbum]

gracie - you posted, 'I am trying to figure out just how bad the reality is.'

the reality is that this closure is a major problem for lots of folks in the three historic neighborhoods. lots of folks do not have a car and use a golf cart only. lots of folks also do grocery shopping at walmart and aldi's because of the lower prices there than at publix and winn dixie. several of my neighbors own a car - but hate to take it out on the highway - they are intimidated there - and really only take it out if they have to go way off campus [mostly to another golf course! ;)]

the loss of this path is a major inconvenience to them. i really fear for them if they have to go out on the highway - and i fear for myself if i am going to be on the highway at the same time as they are!

we live in the village of silver lake - with the lake county ems squad right outside our griffin ave gate - we hear the sirens frequently - and sometimes they have responded to some pretty humdinger accidents @ main/441, avenida central/441, rolling acres/441. adding some of our neighbors in cars into this traffic is something i can really be concerned about!

[chuckinca]

O.K. There is no golf cart access to Lowes. Aldi and a doctors office complex and Walmart. Also an assisted living facility? That is the newest thing and possibly linked to that? There is still another Walmart down on 466 that folks can get to, and an Ace Hardware on 466 that is golf cart accessible. Do you think that a good percentage of folks on that side of 441 go to the doctors in that complex or a few? I am trying to figure out just how bad the reality is.

If it was a feud between the Morses and the owners of the property, why did it take this long to block the path if that was the vengeful thing to do. How could it hurt the owners of the property that the Morses didn't like? Do the owners of the property run in and out and visit Orange Blossom? What would be the motive here?

None of this makes sense so far. Maybe the assisted living facility wanted to not have folks running back and forth?


The access from TV was in place for about 20 years or more - why close it now?

A couple years ago the assisted living property owner had cart traffic people approve on a new path thru his property; maybe a condition for the building permit.

The path (aka "the Ho Chi Minh Trail") is a two way street and used by about 95% Villagers and 5% Stonecrest folk. If the cart crossing 441 at Spruce Creek South is approved, then they will have access to TV via the HCM Trail. I believe Spruce Creek South (and Oakland Hills) used to have direct access but is was closed by TV years ago.

The developer of Spruce Creek South was the original developer of Spruce Creek further north on 441 and later sold it to Del Webb. Corp

Maybe this is an issue concerning Spruce Creek South and TV?

.

[bkcunningham1]

O.K. There is no golf cart access to Lowes. Aldi and a doctors office complex and Walmart. Also an assisted living facility? That is the newest thing and possibly linked to that? There is still another Walmart down on 466 that folks can get to, and an Ace Hardware on 466 that is golf cart accessible. Do you think that a good percentage of folks on that side of 441 go to the doctors in that complex or a few? I am trying to figure out just how bad the reality is.

If it was a feud between the Morses and the owners of the property, why did it take this long to block the path if that was the vengeful thing to do. How could it hurt the owners of the property that the Morses didn't like? Do the owners of the property run in and out and visit Orange Blossom? What would be the motive here?

None of this makes sense so far. Maybe the assisted living facility wanted to not have folks running back and forth?

Gracie, although everything is speculation at this point and we may never know the truth; take everything you said about the access to and from the area and change it to: O.K. There is no golf cart access to Lowes. Aldi and a doctors office complex and Walmart. Cracker Barrel, Firehouse Subs, Taki's, Hair Masters, Sally's, a video/game store, a pharmacy, a dry cleaners, second hair dresser, Beall's, a couple of three banks, Munroe Regional Medical Center, a nail salon, Sonic Drive-In, an urgent care, an allergy clinic, a urologist, many other specialists in various medical complexes...Also an assisted living facility? That is the newest thing and possibly linked to that? There is still another Walmart down on 441 that folks can get to, and an Ace Hardware off of 441 near Winn Dixie that is golf cart accessible. Do you think that a good percentage of folks on that side of 466 go to the doctors in that complex or a few? I am trying to figure out just how bad the reality is."

I am trying to show you how far it would be to drive the distance you suggest to get to these businesses if the closure was affecting someone else.

EDIT: This shouldn't be an argument or a disagreement between residents of The Villages. It should be of concern to residents of TV and whomever put up a wall. At this point, I'd just like to find out who did this so I can get a petition signed and present it to the proper channels for a discussion on reopening this area for carts.

[red tail]

Gracie, although everything is speculation at this point and we may never know the truth; take everything you said about the access to and from the area and change it to: O.K. There is no golf cart access to Lowes. Aldi and a doctors office complex and Walmart. Cracker Barrel, Firehouse Subs, Taki's, Hair Masters, Sally's, a video/game store, a pharmacy, a dry cleaners, second hair dresser, Beall's, a couple of three banks, Munroe Regional Medical Center, a nail salon, Sonic Drive-In, an urgent care, an allergy clinic, a urologist, many other specialists in various medical complexes...Also an assisted living facility? That is the newest thing and possibly linked to that? There is still another Walmart down on 441 that folks can get to, and an Ace Hardware off of 441 near Winn Dixie that is golf cart accessible. Do you think that a good percentage of folks on that side of 466 go to the doctors in that complex or a few? I am trying to figure out just how bad the reality is."




I am trying to show you how far it would be to drive the distance you suggest to get to these businesses if the closure was affecting someone else.

EDIT: This shouldn't be an argument or a disagreement between residents of The Villages. It should be of concern to residents of TV and whomever put up a wall. At this point, I'd just like to find out who did this so I can get a petition signed and present it to the proper channels for a discussion on reopening this area for carts.



ill bet the residents on that street are joyous to get rid of all that traffic. think about how you would like all those golf carts all day long.

[bkcunningham1]

ill bet the residents on that street are joyous to get rid of all that traffic. think about how you would like all those golf carts all day long.

The residents on what street?

[Mikeod]

mikeod, the new wall closes the gap between the existing walls that run behind the residences of TV owners. The wall matches the style, color and height of the existing walls. The signs that were put up yesterday advising of the closure were on TV property.

I doubt that anyone but someone associated with The Developer would put the signs on TV property and I doubt that anyone but a representative of TV would put up a wall that matches to a T the existing wall and place it exactly in line with the other walls.

Take a look: wall_zps4150e472.jpg Photo by bkcunningham1 | Photobucket (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/bkcunningham1/media/wall_zps4150e472.jpg.html)
Thanks. That answers my question. I couldn't tell from the other picture.

[gocubsgo]

I know someone at the Villages Sun and they were told NOT to mention this wall in the papers or in the media.(as of Sat night. With all the outrage, this may have changed this morning). This speaks volumes to me. This has Morse written all over it otherwise they would mention it.

Gracie, we know you "love the Developer" but the guy hit an all time low here on this one. Walling up a golf cart path because he's in a feud with the owner of a business on the other side and not giving a damn about the people it effects is rotten to the core.

[red tail]

The residents on what street?

paradise dr

[janmcn]

Who is "we"?

Personally, I don't own any real property around here except my house.

I also don't own the cart path to LSL but can imagine the outcry if that were permanently blocked without warning.

The "too bad, sucks to be you" attitude is depressing.


All the people denying that this is a problem will be screaming the loudest when they are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on their way to Lowe's. This path wasn't just used by residents of the historic side, but by residents as far away as south of 466 to get to the shopping areas on 441 by golf cart. Now convert each of these golf carts into cars and what do you have? Grid-lock.

[Bogie Shooter]

I know someone at the Villages Sun and they were told NOT to mention this wall in the papers or in the media.(as of Sat night. With all the outrage, this may have changed this morning). This speaks volumes to me. This has Morse written all over it otherwise they would mention it.

Gracie, we know you "love the Developer" but the guy hit an all time low here on this one. Walling up a golf cart path because he's in a feud with the owner of a business on the other side and not giving a damn about the people it effects is rotten to the core.

I heard it on the grapvine.................Oh that's part of a song!

[BarryRX]

To my fellow villagers on the historic side.....if this sudden construction has left you without a means to do necessary shopping or to get to a doctors appointment, please pm me and I will gladly give you a ride until you have sufficient time to make alternate arrangements.

[gocubsgo]

I heard it on the grapvine.................Oh that's part of a song!

This isn't a grapevine. This is a reporter from The Sun.

[bkcunningham1]

To my fellow villagers on the historic side.....if this sudden construction has left you without a means to do necessary shopping or to get to a doctors appointment, please pm me and I will gladly give you a ride until you have sufficient time to make alternate arrangements.

You are the best.

[schwarz]

you can drive around to the area along 27...we and many others are doing in now

[BettyCrocked]

Why? What possible motive?
It's been asked and answered numerous times already, but I'll try it in simpler terms. The developer makes money off of business inside TV. It's been pointed out ad nauseum that he has a right to get a percentage of the sales at Publix, Sweet Bay, and all the other businesses within TV.
He does not make anything off of the businesses outside TV.
Is this his reason? Who knows, but you'd have to have your head in the sand not to understand that he would benefit from this wall.

[Arctic Fox]

you can drive around to the area along 27...we and many others are doing in now

Just to clarify, Schwarz, are you using the westernmost gated exit from the historic side to 441, then driving along the grass, turning in by the Urgent Care entrance? Or, once on that grass verge, is there a quicker way into the car park?

I'm sure whoever put up the wall will be quick to alert the police to carts going along that verge if doing so is illegal, so it would be nice to be able to duck into that commercial area as quickly as possible.

I hate to sound like a conspiracist, but one has to fight fire with fire.

And, while on the subject of legal rights, there must surely be an Amendment giving a man the right to visit the hardware store? Bearing arms is one thing, but buying tools...

[red tail]

Why? What possible motive?
It's been asked and answered numerous times already, but I'll try it in simpler terms. The developer makes money off of business inside TV. It's been pointed out ad nauseum that he has a right to get a percentage of the sales at Publix, Sweet Bay, and all the other businesses within TV.
He does not make anything off of the businesses outside TV.
Is this his reason? Who knows, but you'd have to have your head in the sand not to understand that there he would not benefit from this wall.

the only thing that comes to mind to me is...paranoia

[BettyCrocked]

the only thing that comes to mind to me is...paranoia

If it's all paranoia, why was little or no notice given? Why wasn't it in the Daily Sun?
I understand that people who live south of 466a couldn't give a crap what happens to people north of 466, but let a wall cut them off from places they frequent. They'd be screaming bloody murder.

[Mikeod]

mikeod, the new wall closes the gap between the existing walls that run behind the residences of TV owners. The wall matches the style, color and height of the existing walls. The signs that were put up yesterday advising of the closure were on TV property.

I doubt that anyone but someone associated with The Developer would put the signs on TV property and I doubt that anyone but a representative of TV would put up a wall that matches to a T the existing wall and place it exactly in line with the other walls.

Take a look: wall_zps4150e472.jpg Photo by bkcunningham1 | Photobucket (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/bkcunningham1/media/wall_zps4150e472.jpg.html)
BK,
Another question. Looking at Google Maps, it appears the wall runs around the medical offices and along 441 rather than continuing behind the homes on Paradise Dr. Is that correct? If it is, does that not indicate the wall may have been constructed by the owner of that property?

I'm not denying the developer may have been involved, but I am uncomfortable with the rapidity with which some attach various nefarious schemes to anything that is done around here. I understand this is a MAJOR inconvenience to residents there. Thankfully, they can still access grocery and other services via cart, just not their preferred ones.

I agree with those that suggest getting the POA informed of this. I would not waste time with the VHA as its ties with the developer preclude an outcome in favor of residents if the developer built it.

[red tail]

If it's all paranoia, why was little or no notice given? Why wasn't it in the Daily Sun?
I understand that people who live south of 466a couldn't give a crap what happens to people north of 466, but let a wall cut them off from places they frequent. They'd be screaming bloody murder.

read post 106.....never assume anything.

[JeffAVEWS]

I still think that there is an easement there! We need to find out if a building permit was issued to put up the wall ( I know from experience that you can't build on easement) If no permit was issued then that is a concern for city or county officials. If there was a permit we can find out who owns the property.

[Arctic Fox]

ill bet the residents on that street are joyous to get rid of all that traffic. think about how you would like all those golf carts all day long.

I hate the amount of traffic going along Morse - to whom should I apply to have a wall built across it?

[gocubsgo]

I hate the amount of traffic going along Morse - to whom should I apply to have a wall built across it?

..and the people living next to the path that leads to the post office. Better wall that one off too. We don't need our mail anymore than apparently we need groceries or medical care.

[Arctic Fox]

Are they trying to keep people in or are they trying to keep people out?

My guess is that they are trying to keep us in.

If they had wanted us to continue benefiting from using outside businesses, while preventing non-Villagers from entering TV, they could have put in card-operated barriers.

Maybe we should petition for a golf cart crossing at Buenos Aires?

[red tail]

I hate the amount of traffic going along Morse - to whom should I apply to have a wall built across it?

morse isn't a residential street with driveways...this whole conversation is digressing into an immature rant.

[tucson]

It seems to me that Harbor Chase has put this wall up due to liability reasons , and not the Morse's. The facility will have Alzheimer patients as well as other residents, so I could see a major problem if any of those patients got "lost' into TV's (via the trail, and/or an accident re;the golf carts driving on their property. Just imagine all the major $$$$$ lawsuits against Harbor Chase.

[DonH57]

I swear. We leave the bubble to go up north for a few days and this stuff happens. I've used that access many times.the design and construction of it appeared to be permanment but apparrently not now.

[Arctic Fox]

It seems to me that Harbor Chase has put this wall up due to liability reasons

but does it not bill itself as "Villages Accessible" on the hoarding?

I should think having access to a golf cart community would be considerably safer than having to use 441 to get anywhere

[buggyone]

If it's all paranoia, why was little or no notice given? Why wasn't it in the Daily Sun?
I understand that people who live south of 466a couldn't give a crap what happens to people north of 466, but let a wall cut them off from places they frequent. They'd be screaming bloody murder.

The places that were cut off were NOT on Villages property. You live in The Villages. No place in The Villages was affected. Get over it!

[tucson]

but does it not bill itself as "Villages Accessible" on the hoarding?

I should think having access to a golf cart community would be considerably safer than having to use 441 to get anywhere

I'm referring to the residents that will be patients at Harbor Chase and their safety due to the public having access to their property. I don't know if they advertised "golf cart accessible' and if they did so in error, their Insurance Co. could've put a clause in their policy to not allow that. Seems to me that's what's going on here.

[ttown]

The wall is on Village property and matches the existing wall.
We will not "get over it". However we will get around it. I saw many carts this morning finding new ways and there is a new sign closer to Boone Gate.
In the interest of safety the path should be reopened.
Remember...the way we ..on the "prehistoric side" ..are treated can and will happen elsewhere.

[JeffAVEWS]

The places that were cut off were NOT on Villages property. You live in The Villages. No place in The Villages was affected. Get over it!

My freedom of movement and of choice is affected, I'm not giving up without a fight!

[Bizdoc]

I still think that there is an easement there! We need to find out if a building permit was issued to put up the wall ( I know from experience that you can't build on easement) If no permit was issued then that is a concern for city or county officials. If there was a permit we can find out who owns the property.

You can find the owner of any parcel in Sumter County at

www.sumtergis.com

This also shows the boundaries of each parcel. (and for those who like to "gather information," you can find the last selling price for any parcel.)

[tucson]

You can find the owner of any parcel in Sumter County at

www.sumtergis.com

This also shows the boundaries of each parcel. (and for those who like to "gather information," you can find the last selling price for any parcel.)

Is the location in question in Lake Co.?

[redwitch]

I'm one who is directly affected. I live on the historic side. I don't have a car (gave it to my daughter since I didn't need it). I frequent Lowe's almost weekly for my business. I love Taki's gyros. Most importantly, my grandson loves to ride the "bouncy" path and how do I explain to a 4 YO that we can't go there anymore? To say I am upset is putting it mildly.

I'll find a way around it; probably not as safe and definitely not as convenient, but necessity makes things happen.

I will be on the phone Monday to get some answers. I'm not a Morse fan and this just gives me one more reason to not root for the family. I don't think it was to force us to use the other Wal-Mart or other stores (which is not on Villages' property). So far as I know, Morse doesn't make money from any of the stores on the strip malls (which includes Publix). I do think there are probably liability issues but those issues were always there.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one day the street to Colony was closed to golf cart traffic. It is a huge liability issue. If this happens, here's hoping someone will have the foresight to give those residents south of 466A another golf cart accessible means to get to places. Sadly, this has not happened in the case of this closure.

[njbchbum]

The places that were cut off were NOT on Villages property. You live in The Villages. No place in The Villages was affected. Get over it!

a 20 year old villages access point WAS shut down with minimal and no public notice posting. the villages and villagers WERE impacted - adversely! any lack of understanding of that is seriously disappointing.

[Bogie Shooter]

I'm one who is directly affected. I live on the historic side. I don't have a car (gave it to my daughter since I didn't need it). I frequent Lowe's almost weekly for my business. I love Taki's gyros. Most importantly, my grandson loves to ride the "bouncy" path and how do I explain to a 4 YO that we can't go there anymore? To say I am upset is putting it mildly.

I'll find a way around it; probably not as safe and definitely not as convenient, but necessity makes things happen.

I will be on the phone Monday to get some answers. I'm not a Morse fan and this just gives me one more reason to not root for the family. I don't think it was to force us to use the other Wal-Mart or other stores (which is not on Villages' property). So far as I know, Morse doesn't make money from any of the stores on the strip malls (which includes Publix). I do think there are probably liability issues but those issues were always there.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one day the street to Colony was closed to golf cart traffic. It is a huge liability issue. If this happens, here's hoping someone will have the foresight to give those residents south of 466A another golf cart accessible means to get to places. Sadly, this has not happened in the case of this closure.

Now this makes sense. The previous 100+ posts are nothing more than rants, assumptions, wild ass guesses.............................

[tucson]

If I still lived in TV, I would be on the phone to inquire w/Harbor Chase to see if it's related to them and ask if there's a "option 2" plan in the works...

[gocubsgo]

The places that were cut off were NOT on Villages property. You live in The Villages. No place in The Villages was affected. Get over it!

Wow..talk about cold and heartless. Are you a Morse by any chance?

What about all the people who don't drive cars and relied on their carts to get them to groceries, doctor's etc over there? Or are you just to cold hearted to give a damn? Obviously you do not live over here and are not affected therefore you couldn't care less. If all you're going to do is throw snide remarks at those of us who ARE affected by this then I suggest you stay out of this conversation and leave it for those of us who are truly inconvenienced by this selfish move.

[Bogie Shooter]

Wow..talk about cold and heartless. Are you a Morse by any chance? What about all the people who don't drive cars and relied on their carts to get them to groceries, doctor's etc over there? Or are you just to cold hearted to give a damn? Obviously you do not live over here and are not affected therefore you couldn't care less. If all you're going to do is throw snide remarks at those of us who ARE affected by this then I suggest you stay out of this conversation and leave it for those of us who are truly inconvenienced by this selfish move.

Are you assuming it was the Morses by chance?
Are there any real facts, other than a wall was constructed?

[BettyCrocked]

Redwitch, my info about the developer getting a piece of the profits came from this thread:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/why-sweetbay-not-publix-74506/

I'm one who is directly affected. I live on the historic side. I don't have a car (gave it to my daughter since I didn't need it). I frequent Lowe's almost weekly for my business. I love Taki's gyros. Most importantly, my grandson loves to ride the "bouncy" path and how do I explain to a 4 YO that we can't go there anymore? To say I am upset is putting it mildly.

I'll find a way around it; probably not as safe and definitely not as convenient, but necessity makes things happen.

I will be on the phone Monday to get some answers. I'm not a Morse fan and this just gives me one more reason to not root for the family. I don't think it was to force us to use the other Wal-Mart or other stores (which is not on Villages' property). So far as I know, Morse doesn't make money from any of the stores on the strip malls (which includes Publix). I do think there are probably liability issues but those issues were always there.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one day the street to Colony was closed to golf cart traffic. It is a huge liability issue. If this happens, here's hoping someone will have the foresight to give those residents south of 466A another golf cart accessible means to get to places. Sadly, this has not happened in the case of this closure.

[janmcn]

Are you assuming it was the Morses by chance?
Are there any real facts, other than a wall was constructed?


And do you know how those facts could be published? In a front page story in the Daily Sun explaining what happened and why, instead of constructing a wall under the cover of darkness and giving no explanation.

This should be a wake-up call to any prospective buyers about how things are run here in The Villages.

[Bogie Shooter]

And do you know how those facts could be published? In a front page story in the Daily Sun explaining what happened and why, instead of constructing a wall under the cover of darkness and giving no explanation.

This should be a wake-up call to any prospective buyers about how things are run here in The Villages.

Really?

[downeaster]

Are you assuming it was the Morses by chance?
Are there any real facts, other than a wall was constructed?

Nope. However, based on the number of guesses there is a remote chance one of them will be right.

The facts are a wall was built, it inconveniences a lot of people on both sides and those it does not effect are upset because it sends a signal that they too could one day be the victim of similar actions.

Meantime we take this opportunity to take pot shots at numerous targets including each other.

[gocubsgo]

Are you assuming it was the Morses by chance?
Are there any real facts, other than a wall was constructed?

According to my friend who works at The Sun, I was told it all has to do with the feud between Morse and the Harbor Chase owner. Harbor Chase advertised "golf cart friendly" and Morse didn't like that so up goes the wall.

[orgunvs]

I live south of 466a and I drive up to Aldi's and Lowes in my golf cart. Many home owners from the Historical side do not have cars. These are the people that helped build The Villages. They can no longer go to their banks and other businesses on 441. Do the businesses know of this closure? They should be informed due to the fact that they will lose alot of money. This is a sad day for us golf carters. I also heard BK's rumor. I know that the owner of the assisted living put in a great golf cart path. How will his new tenents get to The Villages? Oh, wait - maybe that was the purpose!!! Bad business and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[NoMoSno]

Wonder what this will do to home values and ease of selling in the historic side.
Can't be good for them...

[graciegirl]

I live south of 466a and I drive up to Aldi's and Lowes in my golf cart. Many home owners from the Historical side do not have cars. These are the people that helped build The Villages. They can no longer go to their banks and other businesses on 441. Do the businesses know of this closure? They should be informed due to the fact that they will lose alot of money. This is a sad day for us golf carters. I also heard BK's rumor. I know that the owner of the assisted living put in a great golf cart path. How will his new tenents get to The Villages? Oh, wait - maybe that was the purpose!!! Bad business and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.




But what would be the point? The advantage to the Morses? The purpose for doing this? Surely no one really thinks just to throw their weight around. Or do they?

[buggyone]

I live south of 466a and I drive up to Aldi's and Lowes in my golf cart. Many home owners from the Historical side do not have cars. These are the people that helped build The Villages. They can no longer go to their banks and other businesses on 441. Do the businesses know of this closure? They should be informed due to the fact that they will lose alot of money. This is a sad day for us golf carters. I also heard BK's rumor. I know that the owner of the assisted living put in a great golf cart path. How will his new tenents get to The Villages? Oh, wait - maybe that was the purpose!!! Bad business and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I did not realize that Buttonwood is south of 466a. How long does it take to golf cart from south of 466a to Aldi's?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If this is true, this is a major problem for us. My wife works at Aldi and does not drive. She uses that gate five times a week. There is also another girl that lives over here that works there and does not drive.

I would think that closing that gate would be very detrimental to Lowes, Aldi, Wal-Mart and all of the other businesses over there.

[Arctic Fox]

How will his new tenents get to The Villages? Oh, wait - maybe that was the purpose!!! Bad business and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

But, how would the evil recipient benefit? If you are going to have a story with a moral...or a story with an issue ..you have to show HOW the mean people benefit?


One way may be that those currently planning to move into Harbor Chase, on the basis that they could access shops and restaurants in TV, will now be persuaded to move into a Villages-owned assisted living center instead.

And if it is a long-running feud between the two "property magnates" then scoring points is probably more important than earning another million. Money isn't everything, especially if you have plenty of it.

[nitakk]

According to my friend who works at The Sun, I was told it all has to do with the feud between Morse and the Harbor Chase owner. Harbor Chase advertised "golf cart friendly" and Morse didn't like that so up goes the wall.

I agree with this post in that it is the only logical conclusion. The other businesses have been there for quite some time and only when a new assisted living facility goes in, the wall goes up. It is rather obvious that the developer wants to have the only golf cart accessible assisted living facilities and is more than willing to greatly inconvenience us to further his bottom line. The same thing happened to the assisted living facilities north of WalMart on the 466 - signs went up saying no golf carts beyond this point and the church was told to keep their gate closed that provided access. We have a friend who is a doctor in the offices back there and he told us the church was threatened with the gate being permanently locked unless they agreed to only open it when the church was being used.

[orgunvs]

I moved, like a true Villager. From Fernandina to Aldi's it takes about 45 minutes. I love the drive and it saves gas.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

For the people on the other side that are interested, the gate is between 1155 and 1159 Paradise Dr. I exits into a medical facility which I understand is owned by the Villages. Beyond that medical facility is a new assisted care facility which is still under construction. Past the assisted care facility, there is a dirt road about 200 yards long that runs beside a water retention pond, behind the Internet Cafe and some other businesses. The dirt road empties into Lowe's parking lot.

For us in this area and some on the other side of 27/441 this is the way that we get to Lowes, Aldi, Wal-Mart and several other small businesses.
From what I'm hearing, Gary Morse has had some kind of dispute with the owner of the new assisted living facility. Morse has built an assisted living facility of his own somewhere near 466a. Some people think that this is to steer people to his facility instead of his competitor. Personally, I think that it has to be something else. There is certainly enough business for several assisted living facilities. My understanding is that there was some kind of dispute in the past between Mr Morse and the owner of the new facility. It sounds like some kind of personal problem.

Not only is this going to affect so many of us that live on this side, but it is also going to adversely affect those businesses on the other side. I would think that Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Aldi, Firehouse Subs and all of those businesses might want to get together and see if something can be done. That along with pressure from the residents may get this changed.

I heard someone mention today, that that cart path was there when most of us bought our houses. We bought houses with the understanding that we'd be able to have golf cart access to those businesses on the other side of that gate. We may have some sort of legal standing on that basis if it comes down to that.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I did not realize that Buttonwood is south of 466a. How long does it take to golf cart from south of 466a to Aldi's?

Button wood is not south of 466a.

I'd say that it would take the better part of 45 minutes to get from 466a to Aldi

[chuckinca]

U mess with the bull U get da horns!


.

[tucson]

Can a golf cart pathway be built along 441 like it is on sections of 466 and 466A?? That seems to me like a plausible solution to this mess.

[Bizdoc]

Can a golf cart pathway be built along 441 like it is on sections of 466 and 466A?? That seems to me like a plausible solution to this mess.

Yes, but...

Each and all of the property owners along this stretch of road would have to grant permanent easements (some of whom may or may not love The Developer)

And, someone would have to pay for the actual construction.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Uh, maybe your car? If you do not have a car, there is a taxi. You never were promised a golf cart path to businesses outside The Villages.

Maybe not, but it was there when most of us bought our houses. And in some instances it was pointed out as a benefit of living here.

[gocubsgo]

What a shame that all of us "little guys" have to get caught in the "War of the Billionares"

[graciegirl]

What a shame that all of us "little guys" have to get caught in the "War of the Billionares"


None of this yet is ascertained as fact. It is all conjecture. But I see how a lot of people feel about other issues. I understand your surprise and frustration but what can now be done to make this a little easier?

None of us know FOR SURE why the path is closed but it is. Dr. Boogie, perhaps you will now drive your wife back and forth to work? Maybe car pools can be arranged. Maybe someone can drive others for a small fee? Redwitch, is there any other way, other than that path, any cut throughs beyond and behind? Perhaps when non drivers need to go to Lowes they can post on your neighborhood email? Also the same for visits to doctors? What percentage of people in those three villages do most think don't drive. Perhaps some church could make it an outreach project? With a few members of a church transporting people to and from maybe twice a week? Perhaps we TOTV'rs could arrange some kind of volunteer car transportation? Remember just that ONE area has been closed, those three older villages still have golf cart access to the rest of the entire villages property.

[gocubsgo]

I don't understand what you mean?

Meaning Morse and the owner of the new AL facility.

[gerryann]

What a shame that all of us "little guys" have to get caught in the "War of the Billionares"

Am I missing a war? :22yikes:

[PennBF]

SCARY THIS CAN HAPPEN AND IMPACT SO MANY RESIDENTS AND THE VILLAGE MANAGEMENT AND/OR DEVELOPER HAVE NOT COME TO THEIR AIDE AND JUST LET THEM HANG IN THE WIND. ALL SHOULD GO TO THE NEXT POA MEETING AND DEMAND (NOT ASK) FOR THE VILLAGE MANAGEMENT TO EXPLAIN THIER AND THE DEVELOPERS ROLE. THIS EXCEEDS BEING OUTRAGED.:mad:

[red tail]

SCARY THIS CAN HAPPEN AND IMPACT SO MANY RESIDENTS AND THE VILLAGE MANAGEMENT AND/OR DEVELOPER HAVE NOT COME TO THEIR AIDE AND JUST LET THEM HANG IN THE WIND. ALL SHOULD GO TO THE NEXT POA MEETING AND DEMAND (NOT ASK) FOR THE VILLAGE MANAGEMENT TO EXPLAIN THIER AND THE DEVELOPERS ROLE. THIS EXCEEDS BEING OUTRAGED.:mad:

hard to be outraged when their are NO facts known yet!! so far its just the usual totv rants.

[wendyquat]

Perhaps jane032657 could help enlighten us as she is to be "opening" Harbor Chase!

[DougB]

I think this is a terrible thing to do. I wish I had an answer. "They" shut down your restaurant, "they" shut down your tiki bar, and now "they" shut down your path to convenient shopping and job sites. What's next, the golf cart bridge?

[memason]

...

[njbchbum]

For more information about HarborChase of Villages Crossing please call Jill Romie, Director of Sales at 888-997-2242 or email her at jromie@hraonline.net.
http://www.harborchase.com/Villages.htm


harbor chase facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/HarborChaseofVillagesCrossing

[ajbrown]

I have lost very little with the erection of this wall as I seldom travel that path, but I sure can empathize with anyone who has used that path 'forever'. It is easy to put oneself in their shoes and understand the angst.

Unlike many topics on TOTV, this is one of those things that I feel like we will find the underlying facts as it impacts so many of 'my' Village neighbors. I will wait until the diligent folks impacted have some facts, but no matter the reason it is a shame for so many.

Until then I will assume this action is because our developer was forced to do this and not for the reason that our developer has an axe to grind.

PS. BK. congrats on posting pictures :thumbup:. You may already know this so forgive me if you do, but if you want the picture to SHOW in the post instead of a link, copy the IMG link for the picture from photobucket.

[STRANDED]

Unable to drive i am especially concerned that a brick wall now blocks cart access to many dr's offices, the urgent care center, stores etc. I'm sure we are not the only ones affected or upset by this. Continuing to discuss the issue isn't going to change anything unless it's directed to those who can do something. What goes up can home.down, even a brick wall. If presented with evidence of overwhelming disapproval maybe they'll reconsider. Suggestions?

[njbchbum]

snipped
However, the route you have been taking to Lowes, Walmart and Aldi's has been going across private property; not Villages property and certainly not a cart path. In other words, you have been trespassing all this time. The property owners have graciously allowed you to drive across their property.snipped

if people have been crossing the land and the owners of that land 'graciously allowed you to drive across their property.' is that still considered trespassing?

would there not have to be signs posted to indicate trespasss?

see def #3:
Definition of trespass (vi)
Bing Dictionary
tres·pass [ tréspəss ]

1.encroach on somebody: to intrude on somebody's privacy or time
2.break moral or social law: to commit a sin or break a social law
3.enter somebody else's land unlawfully: to go onto somebody else's land or enter somebody else's property without permission

[bkcunningham1]

I spoke to the wife of an HOA representative. They don't know anymore than we do about what is happening. He is going to phone me tomorrow if he finds out what is going on. He has phone calls out and hasn't heard back from anyone either.

[Bogie Shooter]

hard to be outraged when their are NO facts known yet!! so far its just the usual totv rants.

I agree.

[Bogie Shooter]

Unable to drive i am especially concerned that a brick wall now blocks cart access to many dr's offices, the urgent care center, stores etc. I'm sure we are not the only ones affected or upset by this. Continuing to discuss the issue isn't going to change anything unless it's directed to those who can do something. What goes up can home.down, even a brick wall. If presented with evidence of overwhelming disapproval maybe they'll reconsider. Suggestions?

Read post #1 thru #172.

[bkcunningham1]

I'm sure this is very disappointing for the folks that depend upon that route to shop, etc.

However, the route you have been taking to Lowes, Walmart and Aldi's has been going across private property; not Villages property and certainly not a cart path. In other words, you have been trespassing all this time. The property owners have graciously allowed you to drive across their property. Seems to me, they have reconsidered and closed access.

For sure, this closure does not impact me and I understand that something similar could happen where I live. But, I relocated when I moved to TV and I can relocate again, if need be.

I'm not unsympathetic, but this is just business and nothing personal....

I'm sure you aren't aware of the fact that the owners of the property leading from TV's own cart path (complete with lights and pavers) and The Villages Regional Hospital east complex had signs up showing carts how to traverse their property before and during construction.

No one was trespassing while riding on the golf cart paths.

The property owner even paved part of the path for the golf carts after people signed a petition in support of the new assisted living. They said in the petition that the path would remain opened.

[OldManTime]

Ok. i just come back from Lowes. I crossed the bridge, went over past the hospital, down to the Walgreens parking lot, walked across the street, where there is a timed legal crossing. Now on my way back i stopped at the hospital crossing at 441/27 and saw a bunch of people in the road and several golf carts, and all talking to a sumter sherif deputy. After I went over to Paradise rd, and several golf carts rode the grass and saw no cops. It is illegal to drive on the grass on 441/27.

[bkcunningham1]

The Villages Homeowners' Association's Lake County Representatives

Name Phone Neighborhood
Ray Leggiero 751-0221 Country Club Hills
Steve Macejak 751-3043 Country Club Hills
Dennis Williams 750-0063 Hacienda Hills
Myra Reff 750-1657 Chula Vista Villas
Judy Glasel 430-9707 Chula Vista Villas
Peggy Harrison 750-0186 Village of El Cortez
Judy Mix 751-0610 Village of La Reynalda
Alice Burnette 430-0691 Village of La Reynalda
Mario & Lillian Campagnola 751-0512 Village of La Zamora
Otto & Janet Voettiner 753-4278 Vista Sonoma Villas
Sid Kingry 586-7941 Village of Spanish Springs
Mary Shutts 259-5908 Village of Spanish Springs
Larry & Anita Troutner 259-3630 Silver Lake
Niel & Mary Kastor 561-4522 Silver Lake
David & Laura Koss 750-3813 Village of Mira Mesa
Linda Pelletier 259-0229 Vista Lago Villas
Need Neighborhood Representatives

Orange Blossom Gargens
Courtyard Villas
Viillage of Valle Verde

[gocubsgo]

Maybe this is TV version of Under the Dome...can't get out and can't get in! :)

[njbchbum]

Maybe this is TV version of Under the Dome...can't get out and can't get in! :)

if it's a bubble - that bubble just burst for some! and some don't give a hoot!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The area in question. The cart gate is at the red dot.

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii564/Winston1027/ParadiseCarthPath2_zps39802175.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/Winston1027/media/ParadiseCarthPath2_zps39802175.jpg.html)

[Steve9930]

Looks like those that want to continue using the portion of the path that is cut off will need to purchase a street legal golf cart. The fine for crossing without using a street legal cart is $250. Also the section between Walmart and Aldi's will remain open and be improved the last I heard. Seems silly to inconvenience 70K people just to keep 1000 Stonecrest residence from coming into the Villages via this opening.

[Arctic Fox]

hard to be outraged when their are NO facts known yet!! so far its just the usual totv rants.

I agree.


Yes, Bogie, we know you agree that these are just rants as you said so earlier in post 139: "The previous 100+ posts are nothing more than rants, assumptions, wild ass guesses.........."


However, as three of the previous 100+ posts were yours, I find it somewhat strange that you:

post three "rants, assumptions, wild ass guesses" of your own

then criticise others for doing so

then hang around a thread (you have a total of eight posts on it) which is clearly of no interest to you.


Many people in TV are badly affected by this wall and are getting together here to discuss it.

If we don't meet your standards for factual correctness, and all you and RedTail (six posts on this thread) want to do is belittle others, I suggest you get off this thread and find one more to your liking.

Leave us in peace to discuss what is important to us.

[gocubsgo]

Well said Arctic Fox!! I wonder how they would feel over there if someone dropped a cart wall on the Colony path?

[njbchbum]

thank you, artic fox. you have posted what many here are feeling - you speak for them, too.

[mokey]

Amen

[linko38]

Maybe this is TV version of Under the Dome...can't get out and can't get in! :)

Thats what I thought. Its called behind the wall! LOL. I feel bad for the ones trapped. Hopefully they will rethink this. They tried to put a fence up by Walmart that has property owned by Duke energy. It lasted four hours.They recieved so many angry phone calls they took it down. Although I'm afraid concrete is more permanent. So sad. My Grandson loved going on that bridge. Us Stonecresters spent alot of money in the stores and businesses.

[DAVIDPHS55]

Didn't they create an easement by allowing us to use the path for more than 7 years?

[Bogie Shooter]

Yes, Bogie, we know you agree that these are just rants as you said so earlier in post 139: "The previous 100+ posts are nothing more than rants, assumptions, wild ass guesses.........."


However, as three of the previous 100+ posts were yours, I find it somewhat strange that you:

post three "rants, assumptions, wild ass guesses" of your own

then criticise others for doing so

then hang around a thread (you have a total of eight posts on it) which is clearly of no interest to you.


Many people in TV are badly affected by this wall and are getting together here to discuss it.

If we don't meet your standards for factual correctness, and all you and RedTail (six posts on this thread) want to do is belittle others, I suggest you get off this thread and find one more to your liking.

Leave us in peace to discuss what is important to us.

Sorry, I don't need your advice.

[wendyquat]

Sorry, I don't need your advice.

And where do you keep that horse Bogie?:0000000000luvmyhors

[red tail]

Sorry, I don't need your advice.

or his personal insults

[DAVIDPHS55]

WELL, SINCE NEITHER MY WIFE OR I DRIVE A CAR AND ONLY USE A GOLF CART WE WILL HAVE TO STOP SHOPPING AND EATING IN THE VILLAGES.:wave:

[graciegirl]

WELL, SINCE NEITHER MY WIFE OR I DRIVE A CAR AND ONLY USE A GOLF CART WE WILL HAVE TO STOP SHOPPING AND EATING IN THE VILLAGES.:wave:

If you live in the historic section you can still cross the golf cart bridge in your golf cart and go to all of the places the rest of us can go in a golf cart.

If you are meeting to make your selves madder, to me that is not going to help anything. NOTHING is yet known why this occurred. MeMason probably answered it correctly; that the cart path passes through non village territory and the new care facility didn't want it. Bogie may say things succinctly but he is usually right.

You are right. It isn't something that is changing our lives as much as yours since most of us do live in the lower regions of the Villages... Unless we live there it isn't out problem directly but the discussion is occurring on this forum.

I think you will find most people would like to see a livable solution to this problem for you.

[gonzy]

Great business move Mr. Morse limit access to your competitors (banks, groceries, assisted living etc.) But the people who only have golf cart access to their jobs (3 of which I know personally) or the other golf cart only people who will have to change doctors or pay higher prices at the village stores are probably not so thrilled with your business decision. I would assume that the businesses affected by this will probably have their lawyers looking at how the Florida laws pertain to your decision early next week. I guess there is no such thing as a benign dictator no big surprise to me but a lot of disappointed people here on the historic side.

[Moderator]

A reminder to all.....please stick to the original topic and refrain from directing unkind comments to other posters.

Moderator

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

"Default Golf path closing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like those that want to continue using the portion of the path that is cut off will need to purchase a street legal golf cart. The fine for crossing without using a street legal cart is $250. Also the section between Walmart and Aldi's will remain open and be improved the last I heard. Seems silly to inconvenience 70K people just to keep 1000 Stonecrest residence from coming into the Villages via this opening. "

I believe a street legal golf cart can not go on any road where the speed limit is above 35 MPH.

Even if that was true you are assuming that people can afford them. I do not know how many villagers in the Historic side, or the other side can.

It is very easy for someone who has the convenience of a car(s), to tell others how to resolve their problems. From what I have read, it doesn't appear that other than one villager, has any one made an offer to assist those who do not have a car - no matter what the reason.

Are we the "Friendly Villagers" who help each other out?

[gocubsgo]

Street legal carts aren't going to help. You can't drive them on 441/27

[CFrance]

I agree with what you're saying, Vicar, but it would be a logistical nightmare for people on the Historic side to be transporting people around every time they needed a loaf of bread or had a doctor's appointment, or had to get to work every day. It sounds good on paper, but I would be surprised if it is sustainable.

For whatever reason the wall was built (and I don't know what that is), it is too bad for the people on the historic side who have counted on that passage for so long.

[thelegges]

gracie - here's the link to the carting in the villages map: Carting The Villages -Home (http://cartingthevillages.com/index.php)

slide the map over until you see the golf cart bridge over 441; now imagine coming over the bridge and making a left onto paradise dr.; follow along the green route to the blue thingie just past the tacks for the paradise rec center on the right and softball fields on the left; the blue thingie is the path where the wal has been erected blocking continued travel on to the shopping centers for rt 441 lowe's, walmart, cracker barrel, sonic, etc. hope ya know where you are new! ;)

and no - as of today one cannot cross 441 in any area of the villages - unless and until the county gives permission to do so. only 441 crossing is up the road aways - in summerfield, i think.

thanks for the link

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think this is a terrible thing to do. I wish I had an answer. "They" shut down your restaurant, "they" shut down your tiki bar, and now "they" shut down your path to convenient shopping and job sites. What's next, the golf cart bridge?

For a lot of people, this is not simply a matter of convenience. It affects me personally, because, as you know, Jenny works at Aldi and takes the cart there five days a week. She took that job with the understanding that this route to work was available. She also had several opportunities to go to work for other supermarket chains and turned them down because she likes the Aldi job better. Had she known that this route would be closed she would have made different choices. There are many people that work in several of those businesses that do not or cannot drive. For many, this may mean having to give up a job that they need.

Many others chose doctors and other health care professionals in that medical center based on the fact that they could get there in their golf cart. Those people have been shut off from their health care professionals. There is also an urgent care facility there.

Many people in this area may have made the decision to buy a house knowing that that golf cart route was there.

This is a lot bigger than your favorite restaurant being closed.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'm sure this is very disappointing for the folks that depend upon that route to shop, etc.

However, the route you have been taking to Lowes, Walmart and Aldi's has been going across private property; not Villages property and certainly not a cart path. In other words, you have been trespassing all this time. The property owners have graciously allowed you to drive across their property. Seems to me, they have reconsidered and closed access.

For sure, this closure does not impact me and I understand that something similar could happen where I live. But, I relocated when I moved to TV and I can relocate again, if need be.

I'm not unsympathetic, but this is just business and nothing personal....

While it's true that we may have been going across private property to get to Lowe's, Aldi and several other businesses, the new wall prevents us from getting to the Villages owned medical center. The cart gate is well before the private property and the wall is on Villages property. It prevents us from getting onto Villages property before we hit anyone else's property. It would be similar to having a wall erected that prevents us from getting into the Target shopping plaza and a property beyond it.

It is doubtful that the wall was constructed by anyone other then the Villages.

Also as has been noted in another post, it's not trespassing if you are allowed to do it. In fact, I have been told that the owners of the new assisted living facility have gone out of their way to make it easy for golf carts to get to and go through their property.

[bkcunningham1]

Dr. Winston, please call one of the representatives, it doesn't matter who, with the HOA and voice your concerns and ask the person you call what is going on.

Name Phone Neighborhood
Ray Leggiero 751-0221 Country Club Hills
Steve Macejak 751-3043 Country Club Hills
Dennis Williams 750-0063 Hacienda Hills
Myra Reff 750-1657 Chula Vista Villas
Judy Glasel 430-9707 Chula Vista Villas
Peggy Harrison 750-0186 Village of El Cortez
Judy Mix 751-0610 Village of La Reynalda
Alice Burnette 430-0691 Village of La Reynalda
Mario & Lillian Campagnola 751-0512 Village of La Zamora
Otto & Janet Voettiner 753-4278 Vista Sonoma Villas
Sid Kingry 586-7941 Village of Spanish Springs
Mary Shutts 259-5908 Village of Spanish Springs
Larry & Anita Troutner 259-3630 Silver Lake
Niel & Mary Kastor 561-4522 Silver Lake
David & Laura Koss 750-3813 Village of Mira Mesa
Linda Pelletier 259-0229 Vista Lago Villas
Need Neighborhood Representatives

Orange Blossom Gargens
Courtyard Villas
Viillage of Valle Verde

[gocubsgo]

This coming week will be very interesting to see what happens. ALOT of phone calls and ALOT of letters being written. I have already sent my complaint in, not that it will do any good.

[bkcunningham1]

With whom did you voice a complaint? A member of the HOA? It will help. Think positive.

[OldManTime]

I hear there is a resident meeting monday morning at the Spanish Springs Town Square, in front of the radio station.....

[gocubsgo]

I hear there is a resident meeting monday morning at the Spanish Springs Town Square, in front of the radio station.....

What time?

[N44125]

Not sure it's worth the effort, but perhaps if enough emails go into the Editor of the Daily Sun they will cover this...wouldn't hurt....

Dailysun@thevillagesmedia.com

AT&T: Editor

[njbchbum]

Not sure it's worth the effort, but perhaps if enough emails go into the Editor of the Daily Sun they will cover this...wouldn't hurt....

Dailysun@thevillagesmedia.com

AT&T: Editor

i'd contact the leesburg daily commercial - more likely to get coverage from an outside interest!

Daily Commercial
212 E. Main St.
Leesburg, FL 34748

Frequently called numbers:
MAIN NUMBER 352-365-8200
FAX 352-365-1951

News Desk
352-365-8208

news@dailycommercial.com

Sandy Lenoir, The Villages/Sumter 352.365.8248 sandylenoir@dailycommercial.com

[DougB]

We don't have any retired attorney here who wants to take on the task of finding out why this wall was built and what, if anything, can be done?

[gomoho]

I live south of 466A and have absolutely no skin in this game but please know there are folks down here that do care about what is happening and I sincerely hope this gets resolved in your favor.

[njbchbum]

kind of you to post, gomoho. thanx for the support.

[ttown]

A bit of history. Does anyone else remember in '90 or '91 when the Villages decided to go back on promises that had been made when homes were purchased ? There was picketing in front of the sales office...then at Hacienda...and on Rt 441. In August....signs and residents in folding chairs. It was embarrassing and the promises were kept. So the Villages does listen to residents if we make ourselves clear. Good luck!

[bkcunningham1]

Everyone's support is appreciated. We are really all in this together; regardless of what side of the highways you live on. When the access is blocked to businesses-not only the businesses along 441 which are not part of TV's commercial properties, but when access to businesses in The Villages is blocked off by the wall for travel by cart of residents of other developments-it will hurt all of us in the long run.

I appreciate the money that businesses in TV get from residents of the other developments. It keeps our storefronts occupied and keeps the prices of our homes up. It keeps the prices of our good and services down.

You know thy business owners don't care where you live, or even if you live in TV when their rent is due and the have payrolls to be met. I'd imagine they will notice the lack of patronage during these slower summer months because of the stupid wall.

[Steve9930]

"Default Golf path closing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like those that want to continue using the portion of the path that is cut off will need to purchase a street legal golf cart. The fine for crossing without using a street legal cart is $250. Also the section between Walmart and Aldi's will remain open and be improved the last I heard. Seems silly to inconvenience 70K people just to keep 1000 Stonecrest residence from coming into the Villages via this opening. "

I believe a street legal golf cart can not go on any road where the speed limit is above 35 MPH.

Even if that was true you are assuming that people can afford them. I do not know how many villagers in the Historic side, or the other side can.

It is very easy for someone who has the convenience of a car(s), to tell others how to resolve their problems. From what I have read, it doesn't appear that other than one villager, has any one made an offer to assist those who do not have a car - no matter what the reason.

Are we the "Friendly Villagers" who help each other out?

Just pointing out the alternatives. I did not put up the wall.

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

CFRANCE I agree with you. I was just noting that with 20 pages of post only one person was willing to physically help others - by assisting them in getting to where they needed to go.

Only one good Samaritan.

[CFrance]

We don't have any retired attorney here who wants to take on the task of finding out why this wall was built and what, if anything, can be done?

I don't know about any retired attorneys, but what about the POA? They seem to be able to get answers.

To the poster who mentioned the picketing, etc., in the early '90s... what was the promise they went back on?

If it was the promise of no amenity fee on the historic side, didn't that take a lawsuit to settle?

[buggyone]

Everyone's support is appreciated. We are really all in this together; regardless of what side of the highways you live on. When the access is blocked to businesses-not only the businesses along 441 which are not part of TV's commercial properties, but when access to businesses in The Villages is blocked off by the wall for travel by cart of residents of other developments-it will hurt all of us in the long run.

I appreciate the money that businesses in TV get from residents of the other developments. It keeps our storefronts occupied and keeps the prices of our homes up. It keeps the prices of our good and services down.

You know thy business owners don't care where you live, or even if you live in TV when their rent is due and the have payrolls to be met. I'd imagine they will notice the lack of patronage during these slower summer months because of the stupid wall.

I sincerely doubt if the relatively few golf carters who come in to The Villages from the outside communities make any noticiable difference in the amount of business at Spanish Springs or Lake Sumter Landing.

[Steve9930]

Street legal carts aren't going to help. You can't drive them on 441/27

You can cross 441/27 there at the Hospital with a street legal Golf Cart. The Florida Law allows you to cross any highway as long as the intersecting road speed limit is posted at 35 MPH or lower. Or any other location you can get too.

[ttown]

We pay full amenity fees. It had to do with free garbage pickup and storage facilities as I remember...maybe free play on the two executive course on this side. There are few of us still getting those benefits. They ended in 1989 and were attached to the original owner only. My point was that we can bring about change with effort.

[bkcunningham1]

Everyone has always paid amenities fees. It was how the amenities fees were being used. Here: http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

But to the point of the thread. My understanding from talking to a representative of the HOA is that the HOA and the POA are both involved. He asked me to give them a couple of days to sort through things before I circulate petitions throughout the area asking for signatures of residents asking that the wall be taken down.

[CFrance]

We pay full amenity fees. It had to do with free garbage pickup and storage facilities as I remember...maybe free play on the two executive course on this side. There are few of us still getting those benefits. They ended in 1989 and were attached to the original owner only. My point was that we can bring about change with effort.

Thanks for the clarification, ttown.

[njbchbum]

Everyone has always paid amenities fees. It was how the amenities fees were being used. Here: The Villages, FL - Class Action Settlement Notice - www.thevillagesfl.us (http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm)

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

But to the point of the thread. My understanding from talking to a representative of the HOA is that the HOA and the POA are both involved. He asked me to give them a couple of days to sort through things before I circulate petitions throughout the area asking for signatures of residents asking that the wall be taken down.

if things rise to the level of a petition, please give consideration to how we snowbirds who are not in our villages nest at this time can participate.

[Rickg]

IF the wall was erected for NO good reason by the developer. 5/10 people showing up in front of the sales office with signs on the weekends will get plenty of attention. First we need to discover who erected the wall and why. For those of us that live in the south end of the villages we need to be just as concerned about this as our neighbors to our north.

[janmcn]

i'd contact the leesburg daily commercial - more likely to get coverage from an outside interest!

Daily Commercial
212 E. Main St.
Leesburg, FL 34748

Frequently called numbers:
MAIN NUMBER 352-365-8200
FAX 352-365-1951

News Desk
352-365-8208

news@dailycommercial.com

Sandy Lenoir, The Villages/Sumter 352.365.8248 sandylenoir@dailycommercial.com



It might be time to call our friend Lauren Ritchie at the Orlando Sentinel and see if we can get her up here to do an indepth investigation.

[Indydealmaker]

Everyone has always paid amenities fees. It was how the amenities fees were being used. Here: The Villages, FL - Class Action Settlement Notice - www.thevillagesfl.us (http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm)

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

But to the point of the thread. My understanding from talking to a representative of the HOA is that the HOA and the POA are both involved. He asked me to give them a couple of days to sort through things before I circulate petitions throughout the area asking for signatures of residents asking that the wall be taken down.
What is the HOA?

[bkcunningham1]

if things rise to the level of a petition, please give consideration to how we snowbirds who are not in our villages nest at this time can participate.

I have thought about that too, njbchbum. I would ask you to write a short note which would include your name, address, phone number a a statement if you'd like, and send it to media email. You can do it through a PM here if you'd like which goes to my email. I would certainly include your information with a petition if it gets to that point. Thank you my dear.

[DougB]

What is the HOA?

Homeowners Association

[bkcunningham1]

What is the HOA?

About Us & FAQ's (http://www.thevha.net/about-us-a-faqs)

VHA Association By-Laws (http://www.thevha.net/about-us-a-faqs/70-vha-association-by-laws?catid=916%3Aabout-us)

VHA History (http://www.thevha.net/about-us-a-faqs/62-our-history?catid=916%3Aabout-us)

[Indydealmaker]

About Us & FAQ's (http://www.thevha.net/about-us-a-faqs)

VHA Association By-Laws (http://www.thevha.net/about-us-a-faqs/70-vha-association-by-laws?catid=916%3Aabout-us)

VHA History (http://www.thevha.net/about-us-a-faqs/62-our-history?catid=916%3Aabout-us)

I thought you meant a "legal" HOA, which of course does not exist here.

[Indydealmaker]

It might be time to call our friend Lauren Ritchie at the Orlando Sentinel and see if we can get her up here to do an indepth investigation.

If you think that Lauren Ritchie is your friend, then it is time to tighten up your qualifications for friends.

[Indydealmaker]

I have thought about that too, njbchbum. I would ask you to write a short note which would include your name, address, phone number a a statement if you'd like, and send it to media email. You can do it through a PM here if you'd like which goes to my email. I would certainly include your information with a petition if it gets to that point. Thank you my dear.

Why not set up an online petition:
iPetitions: Start a free online petition / Create a petition (http://www.ipetitions.com/start-petition?q=MSNAdCenter&campaign=10)

[njbchbum]

I have thought about that too, njbchbum. I would ask you to write a short note which would include your name, address, phone number a a statement if you'd like, and send it to media email. You can do it through a PM here if you'd like which goes to my email. I would certainly include your information with a petition if it gets to that point. Thank you my dear.

will do, bk. i'll follow along here for a day or so to watch what direction this bruhaha goes in and be back in touch via pm. thanx

[bkcunningham1]

Why not set up an online petition:
iPetitions: Start a free online petition / Create a petition (http://www.ipetitions.com/start-petition?q=MSNAdCenter&campaign=10)

Thank you Steve. I would want to target the residents of TV and perhaps a specific area of residents and I don't know how I'd do that online without having the email addresses of the residents or a way to notify them of an online petition.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

You can cross 441/27 there at the Hospital with a street legal Golf Cart. The Florida Law allows you to cross any highway as long as the intersecting road speed limit is posted at 35 MPH or lower. Or any other location you can get too.

You also must have a driver's license in order to operate a street legal LSV on the roads. One problem here is many people in the area that for one reason or another do not have a license.

[Steve9930]

You also must have a driver's license in order to operate a street legal LSV on the roads. One problem here is many people in the area that for one reason or another do not have a license.

Well not much I can do about not having a drivers license. Just proves never trust a con man or anyone else that never gives you all the details in writing. I've read through all the post here and this whole affairs smells and its not the fish.

[THE NEWCOMER]

I'm sure this is very disappointing for the folks that depend upon that route to shop, etc.

However, the route you have been taking to Lowes, Walmart and Aldi's has been going across private property; not Villages property and certainly not a cart path. In other words, you have been trespassing all this time. The property owners have graciously allowed you to drive across their property. Seems to me, they have reconsidered and closed access.

I'm not unsympathetic, but this is just business and nothing personal....

I agree!

http://www.harborchase.com/i/images/SiteMapRenderingSign.jpg
If you open this up and look in the button left corner of the advertisement it states "We happy you enjoy our paved golf cart access. Be sure to wave as you drive past." This leads me to believe it not Harborchase.

You all need to get organizied and fight for a legal golf path. Things happen when you have numbers! I'm pulling for you all because WE ARE ALL VILLAGERS and what happen to one can happen to the rest of us! Good Luck!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

None of this yet is ascertained as fact. It is all conjecture. But I see how a lot of people feel about other issues. I understand your surprise and frustration but what can now be done to make this a little easier?

None of us know FOR SURE why the path is closed but it is. Dr. Boogie, perhaps you will now drive your wife back and forth to work? Maybe car pools can be arranged. Maybe someone can drive others for a small fee? Redwitch, is there any other way, other than that path, any cut throughs beyond and behind? Perhaps when non drivers need to go to Lowes they can post on your neighborhood email? Also the same for visits to doctors? What percentage of people in those three villages do most think don't drive. Perhaps some church could make it an outreach project? With a few members of a church transporting people to and from maybe twice a week? Perhaps we TOTV'rs could arrange some kind of volunteer car transportation? Remember just that ONE area has been closed, those three older villages still have golf cart access to the rest of the entire villages property.

Yes Gracie, I am going to have to drive my wife to work, even on the days where she is required to be in a 5:00am. I will also have to drive her when it conflicts with the many activities that I am involved in and the volunteer work that I do.

Everything else that you say is also possible but is a major inconvenience for many people and it greatly reduces some people's independence.

[gocubsgo]

I am thinking a picket line by the sales office might be worth it. If there is one touchy don't mess with area in TV, it's the sales office and 50 -100 disgruntled residents with Unfair picket signs would get noticed.

[PennBF]

Am not sure if this is appropriate and a good reason to have an Attorney BUT I always understood that if the public used a piece of private property and it was not closed at least one day a year it became a public access and the public had the rights to pass through it forever? You know that in NYC a lot of business's actually close a side walk one day a year to protect it against being made public property..Would like an attorney to see if this has any meaning in this case???:mad:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Are you assuming it was the Morses by chance?
Are there any real facts, other than a wall was constructed?


The wall is located on Villages property and prohibits carts from getting into a property that is owned by the Villages and in which an urgent care facility is located. So it is not, as has been suggested, been built to keep us from traversing someone else's property. If that were the case they would have simply put signs at the end of the road, before the assisted living center, saying, "No Golf Carts Beyond This Point" like they have in numerous other places in the Villages. The wall has been erected on Villages property. If the developer didn't put it there, whoever did would have had to have his permission.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The places that were cut off were NOT on Villages property. You live in The Villages. No place in The Villages was affected. Get over it!

Um.... the medical complex which contains several doctors offices and an urgent care facility is part of the Villages.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Are you assuming it was the Morses by chance?
Are there any real facts, other than a wall was constructed?

The wall is located on Villages property and prohibits carts from getting into a property that is owned by the Villages and in which an urgent care facility is located. So it is not, as has been suggested, been built to keep us from traversing someone else's property or to keep non Villagers out. If that were the case they would have simple had to put signs at the end of the road, before the assisted living center, saying, "No Golf Carts Beyond This Point" like they have in several other places in the Villages.

The wall has been erected on Villages property. If the developer didn't put it there, whoever did would have had to have his permission.

[gocubsgo]

Maybe an email to the TV stations as well. They would be very interested in something like this.

I just may do that...

[bkcunningham1]

The wall is located on Villages property and prohibits carts from getting into a property that is owned by the Villages and in which an urgent care facility is located. So it is not, as has been suggested, been built to keep us from traversing someone else's property or to keep non Villagers out. If that were the case they would have simple had to put signs at the end of the road, before the assisted living center, saying, "No Golf Carts Beyond This Point" like they have in several other places in the Villages.

The wall has been erected on Villages property. If the developer didn't put it there, whoever did would have had to have his permission.

Um.... the medical complex which contains several doctors offices and an urgent care facility is part of the Villages.

These are facts and are not that difficult to understand, IMHO.

[Steve9930]

These are facts and are not that difficult to understand, IMHO.

I'm glad I don't work in the office tomorrow. I'm sure some one is going to get an hear full all day long. Can't believe the wall will remain for long.

[bkcunningham1]

I'm glad I don't work in the office tomorrow. I'm sure some one is going to get an hear full all day long. Can't believe the wall will remain for long.

They will be earning their pay. That's for sure. I hope you are right about the wall.

:~)

[Steve9930]

They will be earning their pay. That's for sure. I hope you are right about the wall.

:~)

I read some post about rights of egress. There are some Florida Laws that may apply. Since this has been used over a number of years without any complaints from the owner. There could be a good legal case to remove the wall. What would be interesting is if the law suit would have more merit from outside the Villages. Internally the court may look at the a suit from inside the Villages as the owner's suing themselves. Lots of digging legally into what the Villagers sign when they purchased. In any case many dollars to settle in the courts if it came to litigation. Wish my expertise was the law as this would be an interesting fight. I always liked a good scrap now and then.

[gocubsgo]

newstips@clickorlando.com

Central Florida news...they would be interested in this.