Cart path closing

[Halibut]

I wonder if the cart path from Tarrson to the post office and Circle K will now be closed for security reasons.
The Medical Gate is also accessible by anyone in a cart, correct?

Since Janet Tutt insists this was completely a "security" issue, I think it's fair to ask why there's such a safety risk at the Paradise Gate and nowhere else?

I completely understand that Ms. Tutt would like to keep her job, but I'm disappointed in her stonewalling (!) response to this.

[justjim]

My guess is you are pretty close. I've lived in Stonecrest for eight years and I still have enough fingers and toes left to count on that I've gone through that path. I don't like the bridge I believe its an accident waiting to happen.

I personally would rather drive it.

Thanks Steve and I would guess you are a pretty "typical" Stoncrest resident. We actually looked at Stonecrest as an option a few years ago. It is a very nice community. I was thinking then as I do now---if I lived in Stonecrest and came over to TV----I would probably drive my car. If Spruce Creek folks are added -----again, I don't see many traveling by golf cart to TV either. I agree with you---the bridge over 441 is something you want to drive very carefully and so is the bridge over Lake Sumter. Thanks again for your input.

[Steve9930]

Thanks Steve and I would guess you are a pretty "typical" Stoncrest resident. We actually looked at Stonecrest as an option a few years ago. It is a very nice community. I was thinking then as I do now---if I lived in Stonecrest and came over to TV----I would probably drive my car. If Spruce Creek folks are added -----again, I don't see many traveling by golf cart to TV either. I agree with you---the bridge over 441 is something you want to drive very carefully and so is the bridge over Lake Sumter. Thanks again for your input.

You are more then welcome. I'm very glad there will be Village traffic to the stores on the East side of 441/27. This will still give Wal-Mart the incentive to keep the path over Duke Energy Property Open.

[DAVIDPHS55]

I understand the wall came tumbling down. Very good. But, now a gate will be installed to keep us stonecrest residents from entering the villages. What a stupid idea. When and if we to go to the villages we will just have to come by car and instead of sharing a parking place with another golf cart, at the various shopping areas and squares we will take up a whole parking place, thereby reducing the number of parking places. Just imagine the post office at holiday time. The gate will not allow me (a disabled vet) golf cart access to the va facility on 42. While it did take my wife about an hour to get me there by golf cart it does save us gas. Just imagine the extra car traffic in the area once the snowbirds return.

[janmcn]

I want to thank those Berlin Wall protesters for getting out there and bringing unwanted attention to those outside The Villages that will use any and I mean, the most minuscule tidbit to mock The Villages. You managed all by yourself to make a laughing stock out of The Villages.

Perhaps if you thought with your brains rather than emotions you could have quietly gone bout working through proper channels to get this issue resolved.


And ask yourself who started this brouhaha? A little over a week ago, Villages residents were going about their business; grocery shopping, going to the doctor, etc etc and all of a sudden, without any warning, this was no longer possible for some people. What are the residents, who can no longer go grocery shopping or get medical care, supposed to do? We wanted an explanation, simple as that. This is not a 'minuscule tidbit' to a lot of people.

If The Villages is a laughing stock, the developer or whoever ordered this wall be put up is the one who caused it.

[nitakk]

[QUOTE=rubicon;727799]

I want to thank those Berlin Wall protesters for getting out there and bringing unwanted attention to those outside The Villages that will use any and I mean, the most minuscule tidbit to mock The Villages. You managed all by yourself to make a laughing stock out of The Villages.



You are very welcome!

[Arctic Fox]

I want to thank those Berlin Wall protesters for getting out there...

You managed all by yourself to make a laughing stock out of The Villages.



Letting the developer walk all over us would have made us an even bigger laughing stock, but without the end result that we have got our cart path back.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The Medical Gate is also accessible by anyone in a cart, correct?

Since Janet Tutt insists this was completely a "security" issue, I think it's fair to ask why there's such a safety risk at the Paradise Gate and nowhere else?

I completely understand that Ms. Tutt would like to keep her job, but I'm disappointed in her stonewalling (!) response to this.

Correct, but when I thought about it, I realized that in order to get into either of these two gates one has to either drive their cart illegally on 27/441 or come in through the Paradise gate.

I'm happy that the gate has been reopened. I would have liked to have heard a more specific answer to why it was closed in the first place, but I am not going to spend the rest of my life being miserable over something that has come and gone.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I understand the wall came tumbling down. Very good. But, now a gate will be installed to keep us stonecrest residents from entering the villages. What a stupid idea. When and if we to go to the villages we will just have to come by car and instead of sharing a parking place with another golf cart, at the various shopping areas and squares we will take up a whole parking place, thereby reducing the number of parking places. Just imagine the post office at holiday time. The gate will not allow me (a disabled vet) golf cart access to the va facility on 42. While it did take my wife about an hour to get me there by golf cart it does save us gas. Just imagine the extra car traffic in the area once the snowbirds return.

You use the Villages post office?

If you're coming from Stonecrest going to the VA on 42 and have access to a car, wouldn't the car be a much better choice of transportation?

Personally, I don't care if Stonecrest residents come into the Villages by golf cart. I'v really never had any problem with it. But, the cart gate in question is on private property and the owners of that property have every right to allow or deny access to whomever they choose.

There has been a lot of talk about, in an attempt to get even, Stonecrest will shut off access to their development. I personally have no problem with that as there is no reason for me to go to or through Stonecrest. There has also been talk that the medical center or assisted living facility will shut off the path to Villages residents. Again, they have every right to do that. Every time one of us from either side crosses over private property, we are doing so at the pleasure of the owner.
If either of those entities choose to do that, I will be very disappointed, but, I will also understand that it is their right to do so.

Frankly, I don't know why the Villages wants to close out the Stonecrest residents and I wish I had heard a more specific explanation. But it is private property and they really don't owe an explanation to anyone.

I suppose their answer to you would be, if you want to transverse the Villages in your golf cart, buy a home in the Villages. It could simply be that they would like the ability to get to the Villages or go through the Villages by golf cart to be exclusive to Villages residents. By allowing Stonecrest residents that same access, they are giving their competitor an edge in selling homes.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Or the one gate in Silver Lake that is wide opened and doesn't even have an arm?

I believe that you are referring to the Shay Gate. That is accessed by automobile only and there is a guard there 24 hours a day.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I would think that if he is working for Mr Morse he can certainly apply for permits.


Is he working for Mr Morse? Does anyone know for certain who Murray construction is or is this simply another urban legend born from speculation?

[GAGammy]

Glad o see they removed the wall yesterday.... Supposedly they are putting in a gate with card reader to replace it. Good news

[JeffAVEWS]

The security issue is a smoke screen, it has nothing to do with the reason for the wall, and the use of the cart paths is also bogus, they are open to anyone who wants to use them for walking, running or hopscotch. This path has existed since 1998. The new player is Harbor Chase. That is the reason for the wall.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The security issue is a smoke screen, it has nothing to do with the reason for the wall, and the use of the cart paths is also bogus, they are open to anyone who wants to use them for walking, running or hopscotch. This path has existed since 1998. The new player is Harbor Chase. That is the reason for the wall.

That's good to know. Can you please give us the sources that you learned this from?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'm not saying that this is absolutely the reason, but this is a paragraph taken from the Stonecrest sale website.

Stonecrest Summerfield FL - Stone Crest Florida (http://www.55places.com/florida/communities/stonecrest)

While the area of Summerfield is fairly rural, The Villages provides conveniences and amenities, which are accessible to Stonecrest residents via golf carts. The Villages contains approximately 200 retail stores - including local boutiques, chain stores, and brand favorites - and 60 restaurants.

Now, if you're a developer trying to sell houses and competitor starts a development next to you and is also trying to sell houses in his development, and he is using the fact that they can get into your development and take advantage of the many features that he doesn't have in his development, why would continue to allow that to go on?
Now, I realize that this has been going on for a long time so the question arises, "Why now?". I don't have an answer for that.
It's also true that Stonecrest residents bring a lot of business into the stores and other businesses in the Villages and that would seem to be an advantage to the Villages. But the developer would have to decide whether or not that additional income to those businesses that he merely rents space to, offsets the fact that people might be buying homes in Stonecrest rather then the Villages because of the golf cart access.

I really don't know if this is the answer, but it is a possibility. It could simply come down to business. Why would the developer of the Villages assist the developer of Stonecrest in selling houses?

[justjim]

Dr Winston I hear what your saying and you may be correct---who knows---there hasn't been any real transparency in this entire fiasco. I think "they" (whoever they were) had no idea when "they" put up the wall and closed the golf path that "they" would stir up a hornet's nest. After that, "they" were scrambling to cover their butts. As mentioned before and verified by Stonecrest residents---maybe as few as 15 carts or less use that trail to access TV a day and that sounds about right to me. As far as Stonecrest being a competitor with the Developer---I don't see it. Living down in Sanibel I really don't have a dog in this fight. However, I do have empathy for my fellow residents who were shutout from getting to the doctors and grocery by their only means of personal transportation (golf cart) after years of being able to do so without transparency and adequate notification. That is wrong in any reasonable persons mind.

[JeffAVEWS]

How does the cart path impact this? Stonecrest is in proximity of The Villages, that's not going to change. They could still come by car (thereby breaching the "Security") and use the facilities in the Villages that are open to the public. The impact of closing the path only makes it less convenient to get to SS and the merchants who do business there, it does not make it impossible. Stonecrest still benefits.

[Justjac]

I'm confused, Rubicon. On TOTV, you blast those who protested the wall... Yet, on *************.com you post the following:

By Rubicon:
"Great move? Cause a major confrontation? Create confusion and hardships galore for the people on the historic side? Just so he could get someone else to build a gate?
Get real, he wanted to hurt the businesses in that area, even made promises to do such in board rooms when thwarted on his new Brownwood hospital. Now the people of this area went to bat for all villagers in stopping the decline of service in the older areas of the villages. He does not care about the non sales side of his village. To him it just costs, as for outsiders using our amenities, yes they do now, especially since the watch stopped scanning at the pools. I haven�t brought my card to the pool in 3 years.
If he�d gotten away with this how long before the cart trail in Vail Verde to the driving range was closed? How long before those golf courses were closed or maintenance reduced? This is the path that developer you worship has been on in the historic side for the past few years.
Well done to the villagers that stood up and flashed Comrade Morse the bird on this one. Keep in mind the wall is still there and as much progress as seems to have been made he can still walk away from the table if the protests stop and he�s not hurt further.'

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

As far as Stonecrest being a competitor with the Developer---I don't see it.

What's not to see? They are both 55+ developments within a short distance of one another. Some people buy in the Villages some people buy in Stonecrest. If the buy in Stonecrest, they don't buy inThe Villages and vice versa. How are they not competitors.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

How does the cart path impact this? Stonecrest is in proximity of The Villages, that's not going to change. They could still come by car (thereby breaching the "Security") and use the facilities in the Villages that are open to the public. The impact of closing the path only makes it less convenient to get to SS and the merchants who do business there, it does not make it impossible. Stonecrest still benefits.

The Stonecrest website advertises access to the Villages, BY GOLF CART for those buying and living in Stonecrest. They obviously think that this is a great selling point. Why woudld the Villages want to help Stonecrest sell homes when those people might buy homes in the Villages?

[justjim]

What's not to see? They are both 55+ developments within a short distance of one another. Some people buy in the Villages some people buy in Stonecrest. If the buy in Stonecrest, they don't buy inThe Villages and vice versa. How are they not competitors.

Stonecrest sells maybe 30-35 new houses a year (my conservative guess) and TV sells 2,500 new houses a year (my guess) and they are competitors? In addition, all the other amenities we have in TV.

[JeffAVEWS]

Valid point,they could lose that phrase in their advertizing and not much would change. I would guess that when TV is pitching their commercial properties to would be merchants that they include Stonecrest in the population figures.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The resolution to vacate was simply a process by which the town examined the proposed plan to convert the land into a golf cart thoroughfare and to establish the fact that the town had no intended use for that lot for supporting town utilities or other such usage.

Ownership of the lot did not change hands as a result of the approval of the resolution back in 1998. As of this writing it is still owned by Gary Morse�s company. And if the VHA�s proposal is accepted by Morse, ownership will passed over to the VCCDD which is totally controlled by guess who, why mister Gary Morse. But at that point, any liability issues would be the responsibility of the VCCDD which is funded by amenity revenue.

And as for the permit requested by Murray Construction, my guess is that they were the company that was assigned by Morse to take down the wall and they attempted to file for the permit as a formality in the process.

Are you sure that it's being deeded to the VCCDD and not the VCDD? Janet Tutt is in charge of the VCDD and the VHA represents all homeowners in the Villages.

[rhood]

I believe that you are referring to the Shay Gate. That is accessed by automobile only and there is a guard there 24 hours a day.

I think he is referring to the passage way off Tarrson near the post office. No guard, no gate.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Stonecrest sells maybe 30-35 new houses a year (my conservative guess) and TV sells 2,500 new houses a year (my guess) and they are competitors? In addition, all the other amenities we have in TV.

I don't know about Stonecrest, but the Villages sales department sells over 4,000 homes a year.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think he is referring to the passage way off Tarrson near the post office. No guard, no gate.

True but you can't get to that gate by golf cart from outside the Villages property unless you drive down 27/441 or come through the Paradise gate.

[shcisamax]

Honestly, I am thrilled to see the public take action when things are done so suspiciously and without regard for those that are affected.

The public in general has become so lethargic and beaten down that as upset we all are with our congress, no one does anything. if only we could get 1 million Americans to march on the White House and ask our "representatives" to actually be representatives and vote themselves the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us instead of making them the ultimate of special interest groups. If 1 million Muslims can do it, why can't we?

So all of you who took action, bravo! I commend you.

[janmcn]

The Stonecrest website advertises access to the Villages, BY GOLF CART for those buying and living in Stonecrest. They obviously think that this is a great selling point. Why woudld the Villages want to help Stonecrest sell homes when those people might buy homes in the Villages?


Stonecrest has been selling houses ever since I've lived in TV, since 2000, almost 13 years. Why would TV all of sudden be concerned about Stonecrest's advertising, especially since TV is selling homes 20 miles away? This just doesn't make sense.

[Duvalboomer]

Honestly, I am thrilled to see the public take action when things are done so suspiciously and without regard for those that are affected.

The public in general has become so lethargic and beaten down that as upset we all are with our congress, no one does anything. if only we could get 1 million Americans to march on the White House and ask our "representatives" to actually be representatives and vote themselves the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us instead of making them the ultimate of special interest groups. If 1 million Muslims can do it, why can't we?

So all of you who took action, bravo! I commend you.

Sounds like you should lead the march, someone needs has to or it won't happen.

[Boudicca]

I think the instigators of the wall's creation understimated, or had no knowledge, of the power the Internet offers these days. I see as many "seniors" using their smart phones, as I did "kids" prior to moving to TV, and we seniors are more technically savvy than younger folks give us credit for. When this thread started, it was visited by a a virtual tidal wave of responses, which are now in the seventy thousands. i hope the "powers that be" recognized that we DO pay attention, and can mobilize. 70,000 plus, is a goodly number of Villages residents, if we lump the visitors to TOTV into that group. Even if they are not residents, people pass along such interesting stories as this one. "America's Friendliest Home Town", took a hit, IMHO.

[ttown]

Very good point.
I didn't drive on anyone's grass, or spray paint, but I did send E Mails to anyone I could think of. And phone calls. And posts here.
I feel we were underestimated....hope it never happens again.
Just a little respect.

[JeffAVEWS]

In 1999, I visited a church square in the center of Christchurch, NZ. While I was there, a young man appeared and, besides his normal clothing, he was also wearing a stovepipe hat, tuxedo jacket with tails, and he was carrying a soapbox. He placed the box on the ground and stood on it and gave a speech. I don’t remember what it was about, but I do remember him and I remember thinking “what a neat way of airing his grievance", (or something similar). This would not work today. So this blog is my cyber soapbox. I am not sorry if I offended anyone by using this venue, and, I’m not sorry that I spoke up. As my mother use to say, “You made your bed, now you sleep in it,” I asked you, who made this bed?

[rp001]

Are you sure that it's being deeded to the VCCDD and not the VCDD? Janet Tutt is in charge of the VCDD and the VHA represents all homeowners in the Villages.


Couldn't disagree more...They ONLY represent the developer and his needs

[Bogie Shooter]

And the bashing continues..................................

[graciegirl]

I have been reading this forum for six years and the same people over and over and over have the same level of bitterness against the developer.

When a mistake like this happens, they nearly jump for joy to pile on.

To me it is ugly. It takes down the whole community, does no good, and just throws dirt back into the faces of those who are ALWAYS negative.

If I felt the way that some did, about the way things are run, I would put my home up for sale, sell it in a couple of weeks, pocket the money and be on my way.

[gomsiepop]

I don't know if anyone has posted an update on the status of the wall. I received a "youtube" video showing the removal of the wall today. The meeting will take place as scheduled on Monday.

[Ceafolks]

Where and when is this meeting ??

[SpicyCajunPugs]

I have been reading this forum for six years and the same people over and over and over have the same level of bitterness against the developer.

When a mistake like this happens, they nearly jump for joy to pile on.

To me it is ugly. It takes down the whole community, does no good, and just throws dirt back into the faces of those who are ALWAYS negative.

If I felt the way that some did, about the way things are run, I would put my home up for sale, sell it in a couple of weeks, pocket the money and be on my way.

Gracie, you said exactly what I have been wanting to say for awhile now, but since I am still kinda of a newbie, I was a little shy to do so...GO GIRL !!!!:angel::angel:

[duffysmom]

I have been reading this forum for six years and the same people over and over and over have the same level of bitterness against the developer.

When a mistake like this happens, they nearly jump for joy to pile on.

To me it is ugly. It takes down the whole community, does no good, and just throws dirt back into the faces of those who are ALWAYS negative.

If I felt the way that some did, about the way things are run, I would put my home up for sale, sell it in a couple of weeks, pocket the money and be on my way.

I'm sick of all the negativity. I wonder why people who are so bitter toward the developer remain here carping day in and day out. Go out, walk the beautiful paths, admire the fabulous flowers and landscaping, swim in our gorgeous pools, dance in the lively squares, have dinner in one of the many restaurants or country clubs, etc.. We are an aging population so let's enjoy what we have while we can. The wall will be a distant memory like so many of the other crises we've had.

A very savy lady friend just purchased a house here after being here for less than 48 hours. I made the mistake of giving her this website since in the past it was a wonderful resource for me. Not any more, she was stung by all the negative posts, not just on this thread but other threads as well. Sad.

[bkcunningham1]

The meeting for the Lady Lake Town Commission is Monday, August 19 at 6 p.m. at the Lady Lake Town Hall Commission Chambers, 409 Fennell Blvd., Lady Lake, Florida.

http://www.ladylake.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Agenda-Commission-Meeting-08-19-13.pdf

[Steve9930]

I'm not saying that this is absolutely the reason, but this is a paragraph taken from the Stonecrest sale website.

Stonecrest Summerfield FL - Stone Crest Florida (http://www.55places.com/florida/communities/stonecrest)



Now, if you're a developer trying to sell houses and competitor starts a development next to you and is also trying to sell houses in his development, and he is using the fact that they can get into your development and take advantage of the many features that he doesn't have in his development, why would continue to allow that to go on?
Now, I realize that this has been going on for a long time so the question arises, "Why now?". I don't have an answer for that.
It's also true that Stonecrest residents bring a lot of business into the stores and other businesses in the Villages and that would seem to be an advantage to the Villages. But the developer would have to decide whether or not that additional income to those businesses that he merely rents space to, offsets the fact that people might be buying homes in Stonecrest rather then the Villages because of the golf cart access.

I really don't know if this is the answer, but it is a possibility. It could simply come down to business. Why would the developer of the Villages assist the developer of Stonecrest in selling houses?

Lets get the facts straight. Look at the address bar in the browser. This text was not written and is no part of the Stonecrest website. This is a third party website. Please be accurate with your information. There is enough bad feelings being generated over this without adding to it with erroneous information.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

Lets get the facts straight. Look at the address bar in the browser. This text was not written and is no part of the Stonecrest website. This is a third party website. Please be accurate with your information. There is enough bad feelings being generated over this without adding to it with erroneous information.

Yes, outside realtors seem to like selling the nearby neighborhoods because they can't sell Villages property. So they will stress the proximaty and convenience to the villages and its amenities. I don't blame Morse for being upset about that and trying to do something to prevent it. You have to pay the piper to play.

[Ceafolks]

The meeting for the Lady Lake Town Commission is Monday, August 19 at 6 p.m. at the Lady Lake Town Hall Commission Chambers, 409 Fennell Blvd., Lady Lake, Florida.

http://www.ladylake.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Agenda-Commission-Meeting-08-19-13.pdf

Thanks...I'll be there. And I think I should be very early.

[Steve9930]

Yes, outside realtors seem to like selling the nearby neighborhoods because they can't sell Villages property. So they will stress the proximaty and convenience to the villages and its amenities. I don't blame Morse for being upset about that and trying to do something to prevent it. You have to pay the piper to play.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that sales point. Everything down at Spanish Springs, Sumter Landing, and Brown Wood are open to the general public. They are near by and available.

[Steve9930]

The Stonecrest website advertises access to the Villages, BY GOLF CART for those buying and living in Stonecrest. They obviously think that this is a great selling point. Why woudld the Villages want to help Stonecrest sell homes when those people might buy homes in the Villages?


There is no such statement in the Official Stonecrest Website.

[CFrance]

There is no such statement in the Official Stonecrest Website.

Stonecrest Homes | Marion County Homes | Armstrong Homes (http://www.armstronghomes.net/communities/stonecrest/) Read the first paragraph. Specifically mentions taking your golf cart to activities in The Villages. A bit misleading, I think.

[bkcunningham1]

Stonecrest Homes | Marion County Homes | Armstrong Homes (http://www.armstronghomes.net/communities/stonecrest/) Read the first paragraph. Specifically mentions taking your golf cart to activities in The Villages. A bit misleading, I think.

Why is it misleading?

[CFrance]

Why is it misleading?

I think this is misleading because they don't bother to explain you can go to The Villages squares for entertainment, but that's about it. And those are open to everyone. To me, activities in TV mean pools, golf, rec centers, clubs, etc.

[Steve9930]

Stonecrest Homes | Marion County Homes | Armstrong Homes (http://www.armstronghomes.net/communities/stonecrest/) Read the first paragraph. Specifically mentions taking your golf cart to activities in The Villages. A bit misleading, I think.

First that is not the official Stonecrest website and secondly if you read the text carefully without emotion it never says you have access to the Villages via Golf Cart, "A short Golf Cart ride to Village Activities". I myself find it misleading but it is truthful. I can do what it claims without using your Golf Cart paths. If it were my business I would not have put that in there. Armstrong is the builder now building in Stonecrest not the official voice of Stonecrest. It is their website and not our's. we have no control.

[bkcunningham1]

I think this is misleading because they don't bother to explain you can go to The Villages squares for entertainment, but that's about it. And those are open to everyone. To me, activities in TV mean pools, golf, rec centers, clubs, etc.

Oh, I see. But the first part of the paragraph explains that have those amenities in their own community, CFrance. Then is goes on to say, "Just a short golf-cart ride to shopping, healthcare and activities in The Villages, life at Stonecrest is everything retirement should be - and more."

I see where you would perhaps get that though. I think they meant and I interpret activities as the movies, Savannah Center, bowling alley, karaoke at the bars, the entertainment at the various squares, fishing, activities at the schools, driving ranges, golf, churches, volunteer activities at the hospital...

There are a lot of activities for people who aren't residents of TV to enjoy.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that sales point. Everything down at Spanish Springs, Sumter Landing, and Brown Wood are open to the general public. They are near by and available.

But the link that I posted says that they are golf cart accessible.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Lets get the facts straight. Look at the address bar in the browser. This text was not written and is no part of the Stonecrest website. This is a third party website. Please be accurate with your information. There is enough bad feelings being generated over this without adding to it with erroneous information.

Yup, my bad. But, the homes in Stonecrest are being sold on the basis of the Villages being golf cart accessible. And that is the important point.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

But the link that I posted says that they are golf cart accessible.

Yes, and that is what a lot of people feel is misleading and why Morse may want to try to block some of their claimed "access". It would make most believe that Stonecrest has total golf cart accessibility

[Advogado]

Are you sure that it's being deeded to the VCCDD and not the VCDD? Janet Tutt is in charge of the VCDD and the VHA represents all homeowners in the Villages.

To clarify a point, the VCDD is merely an acronym for all the Community Development Districts. See Acronyms at districtgov.org. So, not being a legal entity, the VCDD cannot own property. The VCCDD is the Villages Center Community Development District, which encompasses Spanish Springs; so the property would apparently be deeded to the VCCDD under the proposal.

More importantly, the VHA does not represent "all homeowners in the Villages." It is an organization whose inception was sponsored by the Developer and which continues to be subsidized by the Developer in an obvious effort to weaken the POA. I view with some skepticism the Daily Sun's story about the VHA's going to the Developer with the solution to the wall controversy. In reality, it seems that the Developer, after surrepticiously erecting the wall in the middle of the night, backed down in the face of public outrage.

Janet Tutt, by the virtue of her position, does technically represent all homeowners in The Villages. However, given the structure of government here, it is unlikely that she is ever going to do anything except follow the Developer's lead in any controversies between the homeowners and the Developer.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

First that is not the official Stonecrest website and secondly if you read the text carefully without emotion it never says you have access to the Villages via Golf Cart, "A short Golf Cart ride to Village Activities". I myself find it misleading but it is truthful. I can do what it claims without using your Golf Cart paths. If it were my business I would not have put that in there. Armstrong is the builder now building in Stonecrest not the official voice of Stonecrest. It is their website and not our's. we have no control.

How about this one? Is this also not the official Stonecrest website?

Stonecrest Country Club - Armstrong Homes - Active Adult Living Florida (http://www.thestonecrestcountryclub.com/)
And take a short golf cart ride to all the amenities in The Villages, including shopping, healthcare and entertainment.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

How about this one? Is this also not the official Stonecrest website?

Stonecrest Country Club - Armstrong Homes - Active Adult Living Florida (http://www.thestonecrestcountryclub.com/)

I believe it is, and VERY misleading in addition. Further, resales and property values are less than in the villages because of perceived value.

[CFrance]

Yup, my bad. But, the homes in Stonecrest are being sold on the basis of the Villages being golf cart accessible. And that is the important point.

Yes, and that is what a lot of people feel is misleading and why Morse may want to try to block some of their claimed "access". It would make most believe that Stonecrest has total golf cart accessibility

Thank you. That is what I was trying to get at in my post. While the statement is technically true, it's just a bit misleading.

That may not be the real stonecrest web site, but my google search didn't come up with the real Stonecrest web site. Can anyone provide it?

I'm not against Stonecrest accessing TV. I just really object to vague, misleading advertising.

[bkcunningham1]

People in Stonecrest can access TV by cart though. What is misleading about that statement? It is all true. It isn't misleading when it is true. Come on.

[friartax]

All villages amenities are subject to ID checks. The only place I've seen large numbers of non-Villagers has been at the Tiki Bar at OBH during Karaoke. Of course, the Tiki Bar is open to the public, but the pool is not. As far as the streets--not one street in Lady Lake is maintained by assessment fees, nor is the bridge. All are open to the public. Apparently Morse screwed up years ago and has been trying to make up for it ever since. Why else do we not have golf cart access to 5 Guys, Kohls, Home Depot, Sam's? All we would have to do is cross 35mph streets, which is certainly allowed by the State, but The Developer opposes it! Come to Monday's meeting and get the answers to these question! By the way, the golf cart bridge crosses a Federal/state highway. I'll bet that any access over, under, or across a fed/st highway must be open to the public.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Thank you. That is what I was trying to get at in my post. While the statement is technically true, it's just a bit misleading.

That may not be the real stonecrest web site, but my google search didn't come up with the real Stonecrest web site. Can anyone provide it?

I'm not against Stonecrest accessing TV. I just really object to vague, misleading advertising.

See post #1057. But you're correct, it is very difficult to find.

[Moderator]

A reminder...please address the topic and not each other. This is an emotionally charged topic but we still expect members to agree or disagree with civility and respect towards each other.

[rp001]

I have been reading this forum for six years and the same people over and over and over have the same level of bitterness against the developer.

When a mistake like this happens, they nearly jump for joy to pile on.

To me it is ugly. It takes down the whole community, does no good, and just throws dirt back into the faces of those who are ALWAYS negative.

If I felt the way that some did, about the way things are run, I would put my home up for sale, sell it in a couple of weeks, pocket the money and be on my way.


I ,too, have seen the same people posting over and over again how our benevolent dictator can do no wrong. Just because folks call out this guy for actions that are directed specifically to residents, with no regard for any hurt it may cause, does not mean they don't love it here. I have lived in many homes in the state of Florida and can tell you and all others from experience, that a builder does not have the resident's interest at heart. It is all about money. The only way to get concessions is to raise a little hell now and then,especially when you are right. Granted, he is a great businessman, but maybe a little egotistic and callous now and then.

The action taken was not a mistake, it was planned at best, or a knee jerk reaction at worst. What was in fact the mistake was the miscalculation of the firestorm that would erupt. Thank God for those that have the guts to stand up against money and greed to see the right thing done..That is what makes this country and community so great, not a developer.

[Warren Kiefer]

To clarify a point, the VCDD is merely an acronym for all the Community Development Districts. See Acronyms at districtgov.org. So, not being a legal entity, the VCDD cannot own property. The VCCDD is the Villages Center Community Development District, which encompasses Spanish Springs; so the property would apparently be deeded to the VCCDD under the proposal.

More importantly, the VHA does not represent "all homeowners in the Villages." It is an organization whose inception was sponsored by the Developer and which continues to be subsidized by the Developer in an obvious effort to weaken the POA. I view with some skepticism the Daily Sun's story about the VHA's going to the Developer with the solution to the wall controversy. In reality, it seems that the Developer, after surrepticiously erecting the wall in the middle of the night, backed down in the face of public outrage.



Janet Tutt, by the virtue of her position, does technically represent all homeowners in The Villages. However, given the structure of government here, it is unlikely that she is ever going to do anything except follow the Developer's lead in any controversies between the homeowners and the Developer.

Advogado, finally you have posted a comment that is absolutely on the mark. So many have created postings containing misinformation. The crazy thing about Janet tutt is that she is technically paid by the Villages residents and is indirectly a employee of the Residents. BUT, she is not hired or directed by the residents. She actually is appointed by the VCCDD board, a board composed of members elected by the only real landowner in the VCCDD (Spanish Springs Downtown Area) that being Gary Morse. Only a fool would accept the premise that Tutt would ever oppose the wishes of the Developer Morse. We saw this follow the Developer wishes for years with the person Ms Tutt replaced. When Wahl held that position, we purchased property for many times it's cost to build. We even paid for a liner in a retention pond which happened to be on the private property of Nancy Lopez golf course. Thanks to some resident watchdogs, this was corrected with a refund, but it even happening, causes one to wonder..... Again thanks for your accurate and informative posting.

[Regor]

I think it was great that the people from Stone Crest could drive their carts here. Now they will come by car. Think of the parking problems! Spanish Springs has already lost parking due to the Church's expansion. Every car takes away 2 to 4 golf cart parking spots. I feel the people from Stone Crest will continue to come here but will now make it harder for everyone to find parking.

[Warren Kiefer]

I ,too, have seen the same people posting over and over again how our benevolent dictator can do no wrong. Just because folks call out this guy for actions that are directed specifically to residents, with no regard for any hurt it may cause, does not mean they don't love it here. I have lived in many homes in the state of Florida and can tell you and all others from experience, that a builder does not have the resident's interest at heart. It is all about money. The only way to get concessions is to raise a little hell now and then,especially when you are right. Granted, he is a great businessman, but maybe a little egotistic and callous now and then.

The action taken was not a mistake, it was planned at best, or a knee jerk reaction at worst. What was in fact the mistake was the miscalculation of the firestorm that would erupt. Thank God for those that have the guts to stand up against money and greed to see the right thing done..That is what makes this country and community so great, not a developer.

Too many people accept what ever they are given and roll over. What a different world we would live in if our forfathers had accepted what those in authority had given to them. For example, Pilgrims escaped to America to get out of religious prosecution, or perhaps we would still have slavery if a particular element of society hadn't risen up against what they deemed to be a wrong. Jim Jones led hundreds to their deaths simply because they were apathetic to his directions. Any developer' priorities are to make money, surely it is apparent to all that the developers respect in developments is definately not directed to the residents. I hear over and over, "the developer has provided all these wonderful things for us" , true, but the purpose was and is to sell homes, not to make you happy.

[Warren Kiefer]

I think it was great that the people from Stone Crest could drive their carts here. Now they will come by car. Think of the parking problems! Spanish Springs has already lost parking due to the Church's expansion. Every car takes away 2 to 4 golf cart parking spots. I feel the people from Stone Crest will continue to come here but will now make it harder for everyone to find parking.

Do you really think there were that many people from Stone Crest coming to the Villages by golf cart ???

[Skybo]

I think it was great that the people from Stone Crest could drive their carts here. Now they will come by car. Think of the parking problems! Spanish Springs has already lost parking due to the Church's expansion. Every car takes away 2 to 4 golf cart parking spots. I feel the people from Stone Crest will continue to come here but will now make it harder for everyone to find parking.

There seems to be some conflicting opinions on the amount of off-site visitors coming in on golf carts. Some say the amount is minuscule while others contend that the increase in vehicular traffic would cause driving and parking problems if golf cart access was denied. So which is it? It can't be both.

I also wonder if TV residents would support open golf cart access from Wildwood and Fruitland Park?

[graciegirl]

Too many people accept what ever they are given and roll over. What a different world we would live in if our forfathers had accepted what those in authority had given to them. For example, Pilgrims escaped to America to get out of religious prosecution, or perhaps we would still have slavery if a particular element of society hadn't risen up against what they deemed to be a wrong. Jim Jones led hundreds to their deaths simply because they were apathetic to his directions. Any developer' priorities are to make money, surely it is apparent to all that the developers respect in developments is definately not directed to the residents. I hear over and over, "the developer has provided all these wonderful things for us" , true, but the purpose was and is to sell homes, not to make you happy.

When a person buys a home in a deed restricted development and one that is run by the developer, that person in essence turns the decision making about how the place is run to someone else. A home owner in a CDD cannot vote on anything. ANYTHING.

The purpose of ANY business is to take in more than you pay out. Also a successful business employs people who pay taxes. I have no problem with this business that runs where I live running in the black.

If any potential buyers want to be part of the decisions that impact how things are done in their community, find someplace else to live.

We have owned property for six years here and not once did we have an opportunity to vote for or against anyone or anything.

It is a huge decision to make. Most find it works out to their liking.

We chose a place that is run like this so that people without experience do not take over and mess things up.

Anyone who has ever attended a homeowners association meeting or has been part of a homeowners board of directors will know JUST what I mean.

It is a choice to live here.

To me,

An EXCELLENT choice.

[Peachie]

Do you really think there were that many people from Stone Crest coming to the Villages by golf cart ???

Yes. Stonecresters admit themselves how they will clog our parking lots with cars. Now that is far from 2 carts crossing daily. Read through the posts and add to that number of carts those that will come from Spruce Creek and further developments in this area.

I think the bottom line is many people in The Villages are amazed at Stonecresters insisting they have a right to the cart paths built and maintained by The Villages that are next to public roads. Stonecrest was NEVER meant to have that private cart access to The Villages, that was meant for the residents of the historic section ONLY.

Everyone needs to remember, there was indeed a gate near that location at a previous time to prevent the Stonecrest population entry and it was abused and destroyed by trespassers to the private paths. Stonecrest's access to The Villages was meant to be through the public roads, period. If you didn't buy your property in The Villages, get in your car or street legal cart and drive over to the town square. We do just that to get to the shopping plaza on Rolling Acres Road across from The Villages and yes, it does take extra gas but that's just the way it is. Why is The Villages being bullied by a neighboring community insisting we will provide them access to our cart paths. Stunning! And please don't tell me non-Villagers can use any of the multimodal/golf cart paths on private property in The Villagers. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH US, PAY WITH US.

There is a pervasive perception growing in the United States, in my humble opinion, that there are no boundaries or limits or ownership to anything in this country. Even though many don't want to expend the money, effort or time to attain what is coveted from their fellow human beings, they insist on all the rights and same privileges as their fellow citizens. This path situation is a prime example.

And to the people in the historic section, should one of the property owner block access to land which that path crosses to give you cart accessibility to the shopping complexes on 27/441 after the gate is installed, SO BE IT! It is private property, get over the entitlement mentality which many of you harbor even though you knew this could happen when you designed your life around the illegal path.

Though one may have difficulties, many people living in The Villages have far greater problems than you have and they don't expect freebies from something they never purchased to make their lives simpler. Adapt, adjust to any changes and think bootstraps, pull yourself up by them.

I truly wonder why anyone aspires to anything in this country anymore since great success leads to slanderous name calling, intense jealousy, lawsuits, and any other annoyance the fellow American's can produce. Success has become evil in the eyes of many and it's very disturbing.

[Arctic Fox]

Yes, outside realtors seem to like selling the nearby neighborhoods because they can't sell Villages property. So they will stress the proximaty and convenience to the villages and its amenities. I don't blame Morse for being upset about that and trying to do something to prevent it. You have to pay the piper to play.

The people paying the piper are The Villages residents, not the developer.

If we residents are upset with a few outsiders using our golf cart paths and amenities then we should organise ourselves and ask for something to be done.

If, however, we are happy to share our golf cart paths with a few outsiders, as we appear to have been for the past twenty years, then we should expect the status quo to be maintained.

If the developer (or the VCDD or VHA or whoever actually represents us) thinks that a change might benefiit the residents then they should publish their ideas in The Daily Sun, call a meeting and hold a referendum - not just unilaterally build a wall at 6 am on a Saturday morning in the mistaken belief that "the developer knows best".

[red tail]

Yes. Stonecresters admit themselves how they will clog our parking lots with cars. Now that is far from 2 carts crossing daily. Read through the posts and add to that number of carts those that will come from Spruce Creek and further developments in this area.

I think the bottom line is many people in The Villages are amazed at Stonecresters insisting they have a right to the cart paths built and maintained by The Villages that are next to public roads. Stonecrest was NEVER meant to have that private cart access to The Villages, that was meant for the residents of the historic section ONLY.

Everyone needs to remember, there was indeed a gate near that location at a previous time to prevent the Stonecrest population entry and it was abused and destroyed by trespassers to the private paths. Stonecrest's access to The Villages was meant to be through the public roads, period. If you didn't buy your property in The Villages, get in your car or street legal cart and drive over to the town square. We do just that to get to the shopping plaza on Rolling Acres Road across from The Villages and yes, it does take extra gas but that's just the way it is. Why is The Villages being bullied by a neighboring community insisting we will provide them access to our cart paths. Stunning! And please don't tell me non-Villagers can use any of the multimodal/golf cart paths on private property in The Villagers. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH US, PAY WITH US.

There is a pervasive perception growing in the United States, in my humble opinion, that there are no boundaries or limits or ownership to anything in this country. Even though many don't want to expend the money, effort or time to attain what is coveted from their fellow human beings, they insist on all the rights and same privileges as their fellow citizens. This path situation is a prime example.

And to the people in the historic section, should one of the property owner block access to land which that path crosses to give you cart accessibility to the shopping complexes on 27/441 after the gate is installed, SO BE IT! It is private property, get over the entitlement mentality which most of you harbor even though you knew this could happen when you designed your life around the illegal path.

Though one may have difficulties, many people living in The Villages have far greater problems than you have and they don't expect freebies from something they never purchased to make their lives simpler. Adapt, adjust to any changes and think bootstraps, pull yourself up by them.

I truly wonder why anyone aspires to anything in this country anymore since great success leads to slanderous name calling, intense jealousy, lawsuits, and any other annoyance the fellow American's can produce. Success has become evil in the eyes of many and it's very disturbing.

great post.....

[graciegirl]

The people paying the piper are The Villages residents, not the developer.

If we residents are upset with a few outsiders using our golf cart paths and amenities then we should organise ourselves and ask for something to be done.

If, however, we are happy to share our golf cart paths with a few outsiders, as we appear to have been for the past twenty years, then we should expect the status quo to be maintained.

If the developer (or the VCDD or VHA or whoever actually represents us) thinks that a change might benefiit the residents then they should publish their ideas in The Daily Sun, call a meeting and hold a referendum - not just unilaterally build a wall at 6 am on a Saturday morning in the mistaken belief that "the developer knows best".

I don't think many people read posts preceding their own by more than one.

[Steve9930]

Yes. Stonecresters admit themselves how they will clog our parking lots with cars. Now that is far from 2 carts crossing daily. Read through the posts and add to that number of carts those that will come from Spruce Creek and further developments in this area.

I think the bottom line is many people in The Villages are amazed at Stonecresters insisting they have a right to the cart paths built and maintained by The Villages that are next to public roads. Stonecrest was NEVER meant to have that private cart access to The Villages, that was meant for the residents of the historic section ONLY.

Everyone needs to remember, there was indeed a gate near that location at a previous time to prevent the Stonecrest population entry and it was abused and destroyed by trespassers to the private paths. Stonecrest's access to The Villages was meant to be through the public roads, period. If you didn't buy your property in The Villages, get in your car or street legal cart and drive over to the town square. We do just that to get to the shopping plaza on Rolling Acres Road across from The Villages and yes, it does take extra gas but that's just the way it is. Why is The Villages being bullied by a neighboring community insisting we will provide them access to our cart paths. Stunning! And please don't tell me non-Villagers can use any of the multimodal/golf cart paths on private property in The Villagers. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH US, PAY WITH US.

There is a pervasive perception growing in the United States, in my humble opinion, that there are no boundaries or limits or ownership to anything in this country. Even though many don't want to expend the money, effort or time to attain what is coveted from their fellow human beings, they insist on all the rights and same privileges as their fellow citizens. This path situation is a prime example.

And to the people in the historic section, should one of the property owner block access to land which that path crosses to give you cart accessibility to the shopping complexes on 27/441 after the gate is installed, SO BE IT! It is private property, get over the entitlement mentality which most of you harbor even though you knew this could happen when you designed your life around the illegal path.

Though one may have difficulties, many people living in The Villages have far greater problems than you have and they don't expect freebies from something they never purchased to make their lives simpler. Adapt, adjust to any changes and think bootstraps, pull yourself up by them.

I truly wonder why anyone aspires to anything in this country anymore since great success leads to slanderous name calling, intense jealousy, lawsuits, and any other annoyance the fellow American's can produce. Success has become evil in the eyes of many and it's very disturbing.

This post definitely helped the relations between the two communities. As a stonecrest resident and being very active with in the community I doubt that the who ever posted something that put a bur in your saddle is not a representation of our community.

[graciegirl]

Yes. Stonecresters admit themselves how they will clog our parking lots with cars. Now that is far from 2 carts crossing daily. Read through the posts and add to that number of carts those that will come from Spruce Creek and further developments in this area.

I think the bottom line is many people in The Villages are amazed at Stonecresters insisting they have a right to the cart paths built and maintained by The Villages that are next to public roads. Stonecrest was NEVER meant to have that private cart access to The Villages, that was meant for the residents of the historic section ONLY.

Everyone needs to remember, there was indeed a gate near that location at a previous time to prevent the Stonecrest population entry and it was abused and destroyed by trespassers to the private paths. Stonecrest's access to The Villages was meant to be through the public roads, period. If you didn't buy your property in The Villages, get in your car or street legal cart and drive over to the town square. We do just that to get to the shopping plaza on Rolling Acres Road across from The Villages and yes, it does take extra gas but that's just the way it is. Why is The Villages being bullied by a neighboring community insisting we will provide them access to our cart paths. Stunning! And please don't tell me non-Villagers can use any of the multimodal/golf cart paths on private property in The Villagers. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH US, PAY WITH US.

There is a pervasive perception growing in the United States, in my humble opinion, that there are no boundaries or limits or ownership to anything in this country. Even though many don't want to expend the money, effort or time to attain what is coveted from their fellow human beings, they insist on all the rights and same privileges as their fellow citizens. This path situation is a prime example.

And to the people in the historic section, should one of the property owner block access to land which that path crosses to give you cart accessibility to the shopping complexes on 27/441 after the gate is installed, SO BE IT! It is private property, get over the entitlement mentality which most of you harbor even though you knew this could happen when you designed your life around the illegal path.

Though one may have difficulties, many people living in The Villages have far greater problems than you have and they don't expect freebies from something they never purchased to make their lives simpler. Adapt, adjust to any changes and think bootstraps, pull yourself up by them.

I truly wonder why anyone aspires to anything in this country anymore since great success leads to slanderous name calling, intense jealousy, lawsuits, and any other annoyance the fellow American's can produce. Success has become evil in the eyes of many and it's very disturbing.

Strongly said, but true. Ouch, Peach. woowie. Boy Howdy.

[Jim 9922]

great post.....

I second that for Peachie's post!:agree:

[buzzy]

. ....................

We chose a place that is run like this so that people without experience do not take over and mess things up.

Anyone who has ever attended a homeowners association meeting or has been part of a homeowners board of directors will know JUST what I mean.



I completely agree. Anyone who has never lived in a community that was run by a homeowners association or condo association has no idea how bad things can get when a bunch of idiots with personal agendas gets control of the Board of Directors. The place just starts falling apart while the Board bickers about the style and cost of maintenance.

[ilovetv]

There is a pervasive perception growing in the United States, in my humble opinion, that there are no boundaries or limits or ownership to anything in this country. Even though many don't want to expend the money, effort or time to attain what is coveted from their fellow human beings, they insist on all the rights and same privileges as their fellow citizens. This path situation is a prime example......

......I truly wonder why anyone aspires to anything in this country anymore since great success leads to slanderous name calling, intense jealousy, lawsuits, and any other annoyance the fellow American's can produce. Success has become evil in the eyes of many and it's very disturbing.

The "What's Yours is Mine" attitude has been taking over more in recent years, and it's turning this society into a bunch of squatters, moochers and bums.

Private property ownership goes all the way back to Moses and the Ten Commandments, in that people are not to covet nor steal what belongs to somebody else.

[Steve9930]

All villages amenities are subject to ID checks. The only place I've seen large numbers of non-Villagers has been at the Tiki Bar at OBH during Karaoke. Of course, the Tiki Bar is open to the public, but the pool is not. As far as the streets--not one street in Lady Lake is maintained by assessment fees, nor is the bridge. All are open to the public. Apparently Morse screwed up years ago and has been trying to make up for it ever since. Why else do we not have golf cart access to 5 Guys, Kohls, Home Depot, Sam's? All we would have to do is cross 35mph streets, which is certainly allowed by the State, but The Developer opposes it! Come to Monday's meeting and get the answers to these question! By the way, the golf cart bridge crosses a Federal/state highway. I'll bet that any access over, under, or across a fed/st highway must be open to the public.

You are correct about the public access. The Villages was built using tax free bonds. To do that it need to be classified in a way that allowed it to issue those bonds thus making it pretty much like any other city. This means that you cannot restrict access based on residential location. You cannot do this any more then Ocala can but up gates restricting outside access to their residential streets. I'm sorry some of the Villagers are upset about that and what they wrongly perceive as hordes of outsiders using their swimming pools, etc. Its just not happening. There probably is a solution however. Don't know if it would work or can be done. The Villages could call all those bonds, pay back the $400 million plus, reclassify the development and you could built a twenty foot wall around the whole complex. But I will tell you this doing so will not reduce any of the property taxes you pay to the county.

Another suggestion is to issue a trail sticker for any Golf Cart that uses the paths. You will not be able to restrict sale of those sticker to only Village residents but you would gain revenue from people that are not residents that use the paths. I do believe that would be within the authority of The Villages.

I could be wrong on these suggestions for what do I know I'm just a lowly outsider.

[Steve9930]

I completely agree. Anyone who has never lived in a community that was run by a homeowners association or condo association has no idea how bad things can get when a bunch of idiots with personal agendas gets control of the Board of Directors. The place just starts falling apart while the Board bickers about the style and cost of maintenance.

Yep, I was a condo President once, never again.

[Steve9930]

Strongly said, but true. Ouch, Peach. woowie. Boy Howdy.


Yep, lets keep pointing fingers at each other and stirring up the pot. When will the first cannon ball fly?

[TVMayor]

When a person buys a home in a deed restricted development and one that is run by the developer, that person in essence turns the decision making about how the place is run to someone else. A home owner in a CDD cannot vote on anything. ANYTHING.

The purpose of ANY business is to take in more than you pay out. Also a successful business employs people who pay taxes. I have no problem with this business that runs where I live running in the black.

If any potential buyers want to be part of the decisions that impact how things are done in their community, find someplace else to live.

We have owned property for six years here and not once did we have an opportunity to vote for or against anyone or anything.

It is a huge decision to make. Most find it works out to their liking.

We chose a place that is run like this so that people without experience do not take over and mess things up.

Anyone who has ever attended a homeowners association meeting or has been part of a homeowners board of directors will know JUST what I mean.

It is a choice to live here.

To me,

An EXCELLENT choice.
I think you just made the case for the IRS.

[Peachie]

This post definitely helped the relations between the two communities. As a stonecrest resident and being very active with in the community I doubt that the who ever posted something that put a bur in your saddle is not a representation of our community.

Steve, this is where the bullying starts... because I want adjacent communities to respect The Villages borders as I respect the Stonecrest borders, you state I have a burr in my saddle, you're a lowly outsider and probably the next charge from another poster will be I don't like Stonecresters and so forth. That allows the posters to dodge the real question... do the cart/multimodal paths belong to The Villages? Should The Villages real estate agents promote our community as having golf cart access to Stonecrest?

[graciegirl]

I think you just made the case for the IRS.

Hmmmmm.

I don't remember voting for a mayor. I thought KathieI was mayor.

The IRS is busy with other important things like serving tea and dancing.

[Moderator]

Again, please, stay on topic and do NOT direct comments at other site members. Respect and civility are expected.

Moderator

[Steve9930]

I think you just make the case for the IRS.

I read the IRS report and you all have another storm that could develop far worse then what this original post is about. I believe there is about $427 Million in play n that one. Fortunately with our court system and the way lawyers have structured the system the legal battle will drag on for sometime.

My other advice for what its worth is, keep your eye on the ball. All this talk about outside access is distracting everyone from the real issue. Remember when Resolution 98-106 was discovered the wall came down quickly, put some one tried to file a permit to demolish the current path structure and get a permit to build a home. There is a push by someone to close that path. I have my suspicions why but no real proof. Enough circumstantial evidence how ever that probably would get a conviction if we were in a court room with a jury. Follow the money, follow the money.

[Irishmen]

The "What's Yours is Mine" attitude has been taking over more in recent years, and it's turning this society into a bunch of squatters, moochers and bums.

Private property ownership goes all the way back to Moses and the Ten Commandments, in that people are not to covet nor steal what belongs to somebody else.

Exactly. No need to destroy and vandalize our community because one feels entitled to something not yours. Now we all will have to pay to repair sod, busted irrigation et al. Spray painting a wall should not be applauded as way to go we got our way.

[Steve9930]

Steve, this is where the bullying starts... because I want adjacent communities to respect The Villages borders as I respect the Stonecrest borders, you state I have a burr in my saddle, you're a lowly outsider and probably the next charge from another poster will be I don't like Stonecresters and so forth. That allows the posters to dodge the real question... do the cart/multimodal paths belong to The Villages? Should The Villages real estate agents promote our community as having golf cart access to Stonecrest?

I think all need to understand that the Villages based on how the developer was allowed to finance the development made the Villages basically no different then any other municipality with the exception they were not granted police powers. Now all the roads and infrastructure is no different then the streets and paths that may exist in any other city. Ocala if they decided to put Golf Cart paths next to busy streets to allow access would not be allowed to restrict that access to only Ocala residents because Ocala residents paid the taxes to construct those paths. However I believe their is a solution. I may be wrong but I believe The Villages would have the authority to sell Golf Cart Access stickers. The sale of these stickers would not be allowed to be restricted to residents only but would provide a revenue stream for the maintenance of those paths.

Here's the other thing to keep in mind. All this talk about outside access is distracting everyone from the real issue. Someone is trying to close that path. Follow the money if you want the answers to this problem.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think it was great that the people from Stone Crest could drive their carts here. Now they will come by car. Think of the parking problems! Spanish Springs has already lost parking due to the Church's expansion. Every car takes away 2 to 4 golf cart parking spots. I feel the people from Stone Crest will continue to come here but will now make it harder for everyone to find parking.

If, as some people in this thread have stated, there are only about 15-20 non resident golf carts, per day, coming through that gate, assuming that they are not all going to Spanish Springs Town Square, and assuming that they are not all coming at the same time, I can't see it being much of a problem.

Also 15-20 golf carts per day, which I'm going to estimate as 20-30 people per day, all going to different businesses is not going to have a substantial impact on any of those businesses.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Yes, outside realtors seem to like selling the nearby neighborhoods because they can't sell Villages property. So they will stress the proximaty and convenience to the villages and its amenities. I don't blame Morse for being upset about that and trying to do something to prevent it. You have to pay the piper to play.

Actually, outside realtors can sell pre owned homes in the Villages. And I'm not sure, but where I come from, if a realtor has a client, he can approach another realtor that holds a listing and the commission from that sale would be split. Maybe that is done here, maybe not.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The people paying the piper are The Villages residents, not the developer.

If we residents are upset with a few outsiders using our golf cart paths and amenities then we should organise ourselves and ask for something to be done.

If, however, we are happy to share our golf cart paths with a few outsiders, as we appear to have been for the past twenty years, then we should expect the status quo to be maintained.

If the developer (or the VCDD or VHA or whoever actually represents us) thinks that a change might benefiit the residents then they should publish their ideas in The Daily Sun, call a meeting and hold a referendum - not just unilaterally build a wall at 6 am on a Saturday morning in the mistaken belief that "the developer knows best".

I don't believe that the residents own the golf cart path in question. I believe that it is owned by the developer. If it harms him to have outsiders coming through it, he certainly has the right to do something about it.
When it was shown how many people would be adversely affected by that closing something was done about it.
As far as I can see both the interests of the developer and the residents have been looked out for here.

People are going on about how we're not allowed to vote on anything here and technically that is true. But the vote that we do have is the choice to live here or not. It is in the developers interest to keep the residents happy. It is in his interest to present the best product that he can for the money so that he can continue to sell his product and get top dollar for it.

Over 100,000 people have made the choice to live here and thats speaks volumes about the place. If everyone was so unhappy and began leaving in droves, the developer would have a lot of difficulty selling new homes and home values would decline. I don't believe that either of those two things are happening.

You see how quick they were to respond when people became upset about this cart path. They don't want anything sullying the reputation of The Villages. That is also how we vote. It may not be in the traditional sense, but it is a vote of sorts.

I came here because I had a friend who lived here and raved about the place. I came for a visit and bought a house immediately. How many others do you thing first came here because of word of mouth? It is important for the developer to keep us raving about the place.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

You are correct about the public access. The Villages was built using tax free bonds. To do that it need to be classified in a way that allowed it to issue those bonds thus making it pretty much like any other city. This means that you cannot restrict access based on residential location. You cannot do this any more then Ocala can but up gates restricting outside access to their residential streets. I'm sorry some of the Villagers are upset about that and what they wrongly perceive as hordes of outsiders using their swimming pools, etc. Its just not happening. There probably is a solution however. Don't know if it would work or can be done. The Villages could call all those bonds, pay back the $400 million plus, reclassify the development and you could built a twenty foot wall around the whole complex. But I will tell you this doing so will not reduce any of the property taxes you pay to the county.

Another suggestion is to issue a trail sticker for any Golf Cart that uses the paths. You will not be able to restrict sale of those sticker to only Village residents but you would gain revenue from people that are not residents that use the paths. I do believe that would be within the authority of The Villages.

I could be wrong on these suggestions for what do I know I'm just a lowly outsider.

No one is restricting access to the Village. They are only trying to restrict access by golf cart. I'm not sure that that is legal or not, but I would think that if access by golf cart is only available by crossing private property then the owner of that property has a right to allow that or not.

No one is suggesting that "hordes" of outsiders using our facilities. It was stated that there are some. I have run into some. You simply do not know that that is not happening. I really don't think that that is the real issue, but the reason for this action is completely irrelevant.

It is simple. The owner of the property in question is going to allow Villages residents and no one else to transverse his property. I'm no legal expert, but I would guess that that a property owner has that right. Maybe it will be taken to court and we'll find out otherwise but until then, I believe that the property owner has the right to say who may and who may not cross their property.

A solution has been reached.

[PennBF]

First, let me emphasis that although I have less respect for his staff I think the Developer has in the main done a fine job of creating a life style for the Residents and we should all appreciate 95% of what he has done. The remaining 5% is in some cases serious flaws in judgment and allegedly some the responsibility a result of Staff input/direction.
There has been some discussion regarding the POA vs VHA. I am not sure how many really understand the background of each. A few years ago there were some real problems with the Developer. The Paradise Rec Center was in disarray and there were no funds to repair the facility. Allegedly the Developer was not going to do anything as there were no "reserve" funds. Some residents picketed and were very upset. The POA was the original organization for The Villages and they stepped in to get some help for the residents. It came down to that if they wanted to fix the problem they would have to "sue" the Developer. Some members on the POA actually kicked in some of their own money to fund the suit. Net: The POA won the suit and $40M. Allegedly, the Developer became incensed and formed the VHA as a spokesman for him and cut out the POA completely. And the Paradise Rec Center was "fixed". You can now see that allegedly the VHA is the answer to the POA challenging the Developer. This should close any questions regarding the POA being there to support the Residents and the VHA there for the Developer. To this day the POA has not lost its focus and continues as the voice of the Residents. I believe that most of the above is an approximate description of the genesis of the VHA and why the POA after being the first established in the Villages is now not in favor of the Developer.
Regarding the latest salvo. I believe that whoever takes credit for trying to find a solution must also accept responsibility for the terrible misjudgment to put the wall up. You can't have it both ways. :popcorn:

[graciegirl]

Here is an article about that problem from an outside source, The Orlando Sentinel.


I can't imagine the developer not fixing things like mold in the ceiling.


Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

[Barefoot]

.... where I come from, if a realtor has a client, he can approach another realtor that holds a listing and the commission from that sale would be split.

Preowned homes can be sold by VLS, the Villages Listing Service, or by MLS, Multiple Listing Service. As suggested in Winston's post above, competing agents from VLS and MLS do NOT have the right to show and sell each other's listings, and split the commission. This is a unique situation unlike most other cities. Back in the day, all houses were listed and sold via MLS, but problems developed, and the unique VLS system was developed.

This fact is the reason why most purchasers of resale homes choose to work with two agents, one from VLS and one from MLA.

[Number 6]

I don't believe that the residents own the golf cart path in question. I believe that it is owned by the developer. If it harms him to have outsiders coming through it, he certainly has the right to do something about it.
When it was shown how many people would be adversely affected by that closing something was done about it.
As far as I can see both the interests of the developer and the residents have been looked out for here.

People are going on about how we're not allowed to vote on anything here and technically that is true. But the vote that we do have is the choice to live here or not. It is in the developers interest to keep the residents happy. It is in his interest to present the best product that he can for the money so that he can continue to sell his product and get top dollar for it.

Over 100,000 people have made the choice to live here and thats speaks volumes about the place. If everyone was so unhappy and began leaving in droves, the developer would have a lot of difficulty selling new homes and home values would decline. I don't believe that either of those two things are happening.

You see how quick they were to respond when people became upset about this cart path. They don't want anything sullying the reputation of The Villages. That is also how we vote. It may not be in the traditional sense, but it is a vote of sorts.

I came here because I had a friend who lived here and raved about the place. I came for a visit and bought a house immediately. How many others do you thing first came here because of word of mouth? It is important for the developer to keep us raving about the place.

Well said.

[chuckinca]

Now that the state is allowing golf carts to cross 441/27 at existing stops lights, see the discussion concerning Sruce Creek, how long will it be until the crossing from Buenas Aires to Lowes is golf cart legal?

This would probably eliminate most of the trickle of Stonecrest & Spruce Creek cart traffic thru the Paradise Cart Path and provide the hordes of TV residents from Marion County and northern Sumter County quicker access to shop at 441/27 Walmart and the other stores on the east side of 441/27 north of TV.

.

[TVMayor]

If, as some people in this thread have stated, there are only about 15-20 non resident golf carts, per day, coming through that gate, assuming that they are not all going to Spanish Springs Town Square, and assuming that they are not all coming at the same time, I can't see it being much of a problem.

Also 15-20 golf carts per day, which I'm going to estimate as 20-30 people per day, all going to different businesses is not going to have a substantial impact on any of those businesses.
I would question �some people in this thread� and ask how do you differentiate between a resident and a non resident golf cart to achieve a total of non resident golf carts and I would ask while compiling the total of non resident golf carts did you notice �The Wall� being constructed.

[gemorc]

I have been reading this forum for six years and the same people over and over and over have the same level of bitterness against the developer.

When a mistake like this happens, they nearly jump for joy to pile on.

To me it is ugly. It takes down the whole community, does no good, and just throws dirt back into the faces of those who are ALWAYS negative.

If I felt the way that some did, about the way things are run, I would put my home up for sale, sell it in a couple of weeks, pocket the money and be on my way.

That is exactly what I am trying to do.

[Warren Kiefer]

Yes. Stonecresters admit themselves how they will clog our parking lots with cars. Now that is far from 2 carts crossing daily. Read through the posts and add to that number of carts those that will come from Spruce Creek and further developments in this area.

I think the bottom line is many people in The Villages are amazed at Stonecresters insisting they have a right to the cart paths built and maintained by The Villages that are next to public roads. Stonecrest was NEVER meant to have that private cart access to The Villages, that was meant for the residents of the historic section ONLY.

Everyone needs to remember, there was indeed a gate near that location at a previous time to prevent the Stonecrest population entry and it was abused and destroyed by trespassers to the private paths. Stonecrest's access to The Villages was meant to be through the public roads, period. If you didn't buy your property in The Villages, get in your car or street legal cart and drive over to the town square. We do just that to get to the shopping plaza on Rolling Acres Road across from The Villages and yes, it does take extra gas but that's just the way it is. Why is The Villages being bullied by a neighboring community insisting we will provide them access to our cart paths. Stunning! And please don't tell me non-Villagers can use any of the multimodal/golf cart paths on private property in The Villagers. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH US, PAY WITH US.

There is a pervasive perception growing in the United States, in my humble opinion, that there are no boundaries or limits or ownership to anything in this country. Even though many don't want to expend the money, effort or time to attain what is coveted from their fellow human beings, they insist on all the rights and same privileges as their fellow citizens. This path situation is a prime example.

And to the people in the historic section, should one of the property owner block access to land which that path crosses to give you cart accessibility to the shopping complexes on 27/441 after the gate is installed, SO BE IT! It is private property, get over the entitlement mentality which many of you harbor even though you knew this could happen when you designed your life around the illegal path.

Though one may have difficulties, many people living in The Villages have far greater problems than you have and they don't expect freebies from something they never purchased to make their lives simpler. Adapt, adjust to any changes and think bootstraps, pull yourself up by them.

I truly wonder why anyone aspires to anything in this country anymore since great success leads to slanderous name calling, intense jealousy, lawsuits, and any other annoyance the fellow American's can produce. Success has become evil in the eyes of many and it's very disturbing.

Your post is filled with so many statement errors that it is difficult for a response. First, where in the world did you get the information that the Stone Crest residents would clog our parking lots ??? I have read dozens of postings from the historic side that state ther is no huge influx of golf carts from up north. And as to the orginal gate, it was not vandalized, it was ordered removed by the town of Lady Lake. Other than the "major" thoroughfares (Buena Vista for instance) anyone can travel almost anywhere in the Villages community using county highways and streets. These County facilities are not for the use of only Villages residents. Adding to the fact that that if a "Northern Visitor" has a street legal cart they legally can go anywhere in our community. . Well enough said.

[deltaguy]

Here is an article about that problem from an outside source, The Orlando Sentinel.


I can't imagine the developer not fixing things like mold in the ceiling.


Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

Why would you provide a link to an article from March 2008? Perhaps if you go back a few years further you can also find a few articles and National Newscasts about the Developer having the American Flag removed from a flagpole of a Villages resident. While they have created a great community, they are not without their faults, a factor that many of their disciples fail to understand. Perhaps if you think they are perfect you might explain why no listings from Properties of the Villages are Multiple listed to give other Realtors an opportunity to get in on the action. I'm confident this sort of stuff keeps the competitors out goes on all the time. How many Golf Cart Stores are allowed on TV property since the startup of the Villages Golf Cart Operation. (Answer is 1, Town and Country which predated the Villages Golf Cart inception). (No, The AVG Store in Palm Ridge Plaza is not on a Villages owned property).

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

First, where in the world did you get the information that the Stone Crest residents would clog our parking lots ???

I think that you'll find that this thread is loaded with statements from Villages residents and non residents that, preventing outsiders from entering the Villages in their golf carts will lead to parking problems in the squares and elsewhere in the Villages.

I happen to think that this is false, but many people tried to make a case for allowing golf cart through the gate in question by making that argument.

It's interesting that many of those same people also have asserted that there are very few carts (15-20 per day) coming through the gate.

The term "trying to have it both ways" comes to mind.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I would question “some people in this thread” and ask how do you differentiate between a resident and a non resident golf cart to achieve a total of non resident golf carts and I would ask while compiling the total of non resident golf carts did you notice “The Wall” being constructed.

I agree that we really have no way of knowing how many non residents come through that gate. I was simply responding to the statement that some people have made that closing the gate would lead to clogging up the parking spaces within the Villages while at the same time arguing that there are only 15-20 carts coming through per day.

Those are not my numbers. I was simply saying that you can't argue both of these points at the same time.

[rubicon]

and perhaps not, rubicon.

i learned long ago not to judge people or their actions - for they all have a reason important to them for what they do and think. mine is not to reason why - but to try to understand if i choose to and simply insure that i am not injured by their actions/thoughts.

declaring that people did not think with their brains is a most demeaning statement in my book of judgements. i am sorry to see you post such a statement.

i do believe that the actions of villagers and non-villagers was sufficient, for all who watched and listened, to let them know that we are not a group who will lie back and take it and wait for something to happen - but that villagers can be motivated when they deem it necessary to take action.

and, to me, that attitude is not one that makes them a laughng stock..nor is it an attitude by which we should be embarrassed.

njbchbum: it truly does cause me discomfort to believe that anyone would believe I harbor anything but good will toward my fellow men. However, when people make a spectacle of themselves by screaming "take down that Berlin Wall, well I believe those actions speak for themselves as being emotional and not cerebral. Because of their histrionics The Villages received bad publicity locally and nationally. Because I am in the minority on this issue doesn't mean I am wrong.

Personal Best Regards:

[Arctic Fox]

Can anyone enlighten me as to how many residents there are at each of Stone Crest and Spruce Creek?

Thanks

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Preowned homes can be sold by VLS, the Villages Listing Service, or by MLS, Multiple Listing Service. As suggested in Winston's post above, competing agents from VLS and MLS do NOT have the right to show and sell each other's listings, and split the commission. This is a unique situation unlike most other cities. Back in the day, all houses were listed and sold via MLS, but problems developed, and the unique VLS system was developed.

This fact is the reason why most purchasers of resale homes choose to work with two agents, one from VLS and one from MLA.

Thank you for that clarification. As I said, I wasn't sure about how it works here, but where I came from agents would work with together to sell each other's listing, splitting the commission.

[rubicon]

I'm confused, Rubicon. On TOTV, you blast those who protested the wall... Yet, on *************.com you post the following:

By Rubicon:
"Great move? Cause a major confrontation? Create confusion and hardships galore for the people on the historic side? Just so he could get someone else to build a gate?
Get real, he wanted to hurt the businesses in that area, even made promises to do such in board rooms when thwarted on his new Brownwood hospital. Now the people of this area went to bat for all villagers in stopping the decline of service in the older areas of the villages. He does not care about the non sales side of his village. To him it just costs, as for outsiders using our amenities, yes they do now, especially since the watch stopped scanning at the pools. I haven�t brought my card to the pool in 3 years.
If he�d gotten away with this how long before the cart trail in Vail Verde to the driving range was closed? How long before those golf courses were closed or maintenance reduced? This is the path that developer you worship has been on in the historic side for the past few years.
Well done to the villagers that stood up and flashed Comrade Morse the bird on this one. Keep in mind the wall is still there and as much progress as seems to have been made he can still walk away from the table if the protests stop and he�s not hurt further.'

Wow: I will PM you too but I did not write this and I am very upset that someone would steal my identity. I never posted on the village news nor clicked on it.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Can anyone enlighten me as to how many residents there are at each of Stone Crest and Spruce Creek?

Thanks

According to this website, there are 2,200 homes in Stonecrest.

Stonecrest Summerfield FL - Stone Crest Florida (http://www.55places.com/florida/communities/stonecrest)

And according to this website, there ate 3250 homes in Spruce Creek.

http://www.sprucecreekonline.com/00Public/index.html

I wasn't aware that you could get to the Villages by golf cart from Spruce Creek. It seems a very long way.

[Regor]

All this bickering over 'outsiders' using our cart paths is just plain childish! What if every state said you can't drive your car on their roads because you live in another state? Do you think Disney World could survive? Could The Villages survive without outsiders? We already use Sumter County money to help pay for entertainment on 2 of the squares. I case you haven't noticed, Spanish Springs area seems to be dying from lack of people going there.

Traffic is horrible here in the villages! Every car that doesn't come here, gives more space for carts. I think the developer should make it easier for all the neighboring communities to have easy access to The Villages by golf cart. Doesn't really matter who pays for the cart paths.

[rubicon]

The golf cart paths are paid for by The Village residents. The multi-modal golf cart paths are experiencing heavy traffic flow of pedestrians, bikes, golf carts. If a gate is installed and people living outside The Villages which to travel by golf cart on these path ways then perhaps they ought to pay an annual fee for usage. I mean we do not ride for free.

[DougB]

All this bickering over 'outsiders' using our cart paths is just plain childish! What if every state said you can't drive your car on their roads because you live in another state? Do you think Disney World could survive? Could The Villages survive without outsiders? We already use Sumter County money to help pay for entertainment on 2 of the squares. I case you haven't noticed, Spanish Springs area seems to be dying from lack of people going there.

Lack of people in Spanish Springs?? Are you kidding?

[Peachie]

Your post is filled with so many statement errors that it is difficult for a response. First, where in the world did you get the information that the Stone Crest residents would clog our parking lots ??? I have read dozens of postings from the historic side that state ther is no huge influx of golf carts from up north. And as to the orginal gate, it was not vandalized, it was ordered removed by the town of Lady Lake. Other than the "major" thoroughfares (Buena Vista for instance) anyone can travel almost anywhere in the Villages community using county highways and streets. These County facilities are not for the use of only Villages residents. Adding to the fact that that if a "Northern Visitor" has a street legal cart they legally can go anywhere in our community. . Well enough said.

Read through the posts, Warren.

As Winston noted already, previous posters indicated how the all of the extra car traffic from Stonecrest will impact The Villages, no error in that statement. Read through previous posts again and you will read from the long time residents how the former gate was damaged and vandalized almost constantly, no error in that statement. I didn't say the county streets and highways in The Villages weren't public, I encouraged Stonecrest to use those roadways and even to use their street legal carts to visit The Villages, no error in that statement.

I don't think it's a secret that you have a deep dislike of the developer and you may well have your reasons for that, Warren. But trying to color discussions which may be advantageous to the developer is not fair to the rest of us.


It doesn't make any difference how many golf carts from Stonecrest and other developments want to use The Villages soon to be gated, it appears, private entrance to access the private black top cart paths into Spanish Springs. From all indications, it was never the intent of the Morse's to open The Villages cart paths on private property to residents outside The Villages.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

All this bickering over 'outsiders' using our cart paths is just plain childish! What if every state said you can't drive your car on their roads because you live in another state? Do you think Disney World could survive? Could The Villages survive without outsiders? We already use Sumter County money to help pay for entertainment on 2 of the squares. I case you haven't noticed, Spanish Springs area seems to be dying from lack of people going there.

Traffic is horrible here in the villages! Every car that doesn't come here, gives more space for carts. I think the developer should make it easier for all the neighboring communities to have easy access to The Villages by golf cart. Doesn't really matter who pays for the cart paths.

I think that comparing this to driving on states roads is like apples and oranges. This issue is about people transversing privately owned property.

I don't see the traffic here as being horrible. I don't know where you come from, but I have lived in places where traffic is horrible and even in the winter, the traffic here is not bad.

But what is interesting is that after stating that traffic is horrible, you go on to say that the Spanish Springs area is dying from lack of people going there. How can it be that there is too much traffic, not enough parking spaces because too many people are going there and yet it is dying from lack of people going there?

First of all, I don't see where the Spanish Springs area is dying. It is a little slower now that the summer is here, but I think it is far from dying. But you are trying to make a point by arguing to opposing views.

[rubicon]

All this bickering over 'outsiders' using our cart paths is just plain childish! What if every state said you can't drive your car on their roads because you live in another state? Do you think Disney World could survive? Could The Villages survive without outsiders? We already use Sumter County money to help pay for entertainment on 2 of the squares. I case you haven't noticed, Spanish Springs area seems to be dying from lack of people going there.

Traffic is horrible here in the villages! Every car that doesn't come here, gives more space for carts. I think the developer should make it easier for all the neighboring communities to have easy access to The Villages by golf cart. Doesn't really matter who pays for the cart paths.

regor: In all due respect the golf cart paths are private and residents pay for them. The multi-modal paths are heavy with traffic flow now and in prime season look like I-4. Imagine what they will look like when the build out is complete. So additional traffic from outsiders only exacerbates a major problem now. Please this is not children bickering this is adults saying enough.

[chuckinca]

According to this website, there are 2,200 homes in Stonecrest.

Stonecrest Summerfield FL - Stone Crest Florida (http://www.55places.com/florida/communities/stonecrest)

And according to this website, there ate 3250 homes in Spruce Creek.

Home (http://www.sprucecreekonline.com/00Public/index.html)

I wasn't aware that you could get to the Villages by golf cart from Spruce Creek. It seems a very long way.


The spruce creek online link is for Del Webb Spruce Creek not Spruce Creek across 441/27 from Stonecrest (and adjacent to TV).

.

[rubicon]

I am having a delayed reaction here to the Jusjac's post claiming I posted in the *************.com. I only know of the village news from information sent to me by other posters but I do not utilize that service and I certainly never posted on it.

Either someone used my name in vain, or jusjac is mistaken about the username or someone is intentionally trying to damage my name. The more I think about this situation the more upset I become.:cus:

As to this thread I have held the same position and that is in favor of the wall and upset about all the unnecessary publicity when working through channels could have resolved this issue to everyone's satisfaction.

[Arctic Fox]

...there are 2,200 homes in Stonecrest.

...there are 3250 homes in Spruce Creek.


Thank you, Doctor

[Arctic Fox]

The spruce creek online link is for Del Webb Spruce Creek not Spruce Creek across 441/27 from Stonecrest (and adjacent to TV).

Any idea how many homes in the 441/27 one, chuckinca?

thanks

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Read through the posts, Warren.

As Winston noted already, previous posters indicated how the all of the extra car traffic from Stonecrest will impact The Villages, no error in that statement. Read through previous posts again and you will read from the long time residents how the former gate was damaged and vandalized almost constantly, no error in that statement. I didn't say the county streets and highways in The Villages weren't public, I encouraged Stonecrest to use those roadways and even to use their street legal carts to visit The Villages, no error in that statement.

I don't think it's a secret that you have a deep dislike of the developer and you may well have your reasons for that, Warren. But trying to color discussions which may be advantageous to the developer is not fair to the rest of us.


It doesn't make any difference how many golf carts from Stonecrest and other developments want to use The Villages soon to be gated, it appears, private entrance to access the private black top cart paths into Spanish Springs. From all indications, it was never the intent of the Morse's to open The Villages cart paths on private property to residents outside The Villages.

In Warren's defense, I believe that most of the posts claiming that closing the gate will lead to traffic and parking problems are in the other thread on this subject.

Perhaps the moderator would consider merging the three threads that now exist on the same subject.

[graciegirl]

I'm confused, Rubicon. On TOTV, you blast those who protested the wall... Yet, on *************.com you post the following:

By Rubicon:
"Great move? Cause a major confrontation? Create confusion and hardships galore for the people on the historic side? Just so he could get someone else to build a gate?
Get real, he wanted to hurt the businesses in that area, even made promises to do such in board rooms when thwarted on his new Brownwood hospital. Now the people of this area went to bat for all villagers in stopping the decline of service in the older areas of the villages. He does not care about the non sales side of his village. To him it just costs, as for outsiders using our amenities, yes they do now, especially since the watch stopped scanning at the pools. I haven’t brought my card to the pool in 3 years.
If he’d gotten away with this how long before the cart trail in Vail Verde to the driving range was closed? How long before those golf courses were closed or maintenance reduced? This is the path that developer you worship has been on in the historic side for the past few years.
Well done to the villagers that stood up and flashed Comrade Morse the bird on this one. Keep in mind the wall is still there and as much progress as seems to have been made he can still walk away from the table if the protests stop and he’s not hurt further.'


Could you link this directly.

Rubicon says he didn't write it and has never posted on The Village news and I know Rubicon to be an honest man.

Someone MUST be using the screen name Rubicon on The Village news. I won't post on it for that reason.

[NoMoSno]

Any idea how many homes in the 441/27 one, chuckinca?

thanks

1600 in Spruce Creek South

[PennBF]

I believe it is both prudent and correct to assume the Developer did not get fined $40M just over "mold". Also, in a response there was no mention regarding the establishment of the VHA and it being a penalty to the POA for supporting the residents? Fairness is critical when writing and asserting any point. There must be limits to using omissions to avoid "reality". :ohdear:

[graciegirl]

I believe it is both prudent and correct to assume the Developer did not get fined $40M just over "mold". Also, in a response there was no mention regarding the establishment of the VHA and it being a penalty to the POA for supporting the residents? Fairness is critical when writing and asserting any point. There must be limits to using omissions to avoid "reality". :ohdear:

I wasn't there. Fairness IS critical when writing and asserting any point.

That articles says that those involved were muzzled. We will never really know, but there is a back story somewhere.

I know Sumter County has been much more hospitable to The Villages than Lake.

How many places did they try to have the case heard? So much about this whole thing is not clear to me.

I wish SOMEONE would write an honest history of The Villages.

Skip? Where are you when we need you?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The spruce creek online link is for Del Webb Spruce Creek not Spruce Creek across 441/27 from Stonecrest (and adjacent to TV).

.

Sorry, I forgot that there are two different Spruce Creeks. That also answers my question about golf carts getting here from Spruce Creek.

The people from Spruce Creek on the west bound side of 27/441 do not have to use the Paradise gate to enter the Villages as far as I can tell.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

In Warren's defense, I believe that most of the posts claiming that closing the gate will lead to traffic and parking problems are in the other thread on this subject.

Perhaps the moderator would consider merging the three threads that now exist on the same subject.

Sorry. There are currently three different threads on this same subject. I obviously forgot which one I was in. The posts referred to are indeed in this thread.

[Justjac]

Could you link this directly.

Rubicon says he didn't write it and has never posted on The Village news and I know Rubicon to be an honest man.

Someone MUST be using the screen name Rubicon on The Village news. I won't post on it for that reason.
Gracie: Here's the link...
'Take Down the Wall' protest - ************** (http://www.**************.com/take-down-the-wall-protest-in-spanish-springs/)

I did not post the message to hurt Rubicon...was just confused as to it's content as it seems to be quite the opposite of his TOTV post. Hope he finds the culprit who is using his moniker.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Valid point,they could lose that phrase in their advertizing and not much would change. I would guess that when TV is pitching their commercial properties to would be merchants that they include Stonecrest in the population figures.

Really? You think that 104,000 makes a difference compared to 100,000?

But I do think that it is probable that the Villages uses the populations of Summerfield, Belleview, Fruitland Park, Wildwood and Leesburg to sell commercial properties as we attract customers, in cars, from all those communities.

For those of you who may not understand how big the Villages is, it is bigger than Ocala and Leesburg combined. I don't think that it's that much of an advantage for businesses in the Villages to be near those communities as is it for businesses in the surrounding communities to have the Villages nearby.

[Justjac]

Wow: I will PM you too but I did not write this and I am very upset that someone would steal my identity. I never posted on the village news nor clicked on it.
Rubicon: I sent you a PM. And, as you will see, it looks like someone is definitely using your moniker.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Couldn't disagree more...They ONLY represent the developer and his needs

Are the members of the VHA not residents of The Villages? Do they not have a neighborhood representative in every neighborhood that represents the residents of those neighborhoods? Are all of those representatives pawns of the developer as well?

You can have your opinion, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't state it as fact.

[rp001]

Are the members of the VHA not residents of The Villages? Do they not have a neighborhood representative in every neighborhood that represents the residents of those neighborhoods? Are all of those representatives pawns of the developer as well?

You can have your opinion, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't state it as fact.



As should you.............Frankly, I don't care WHAT you appreciate...I'VE SEEN YOUR VERSION OF THE FACTS CHANGE SEVERAL TIMES DURING THIS DISCUSSION.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

As should you.............Frankly, I don't care WHAT you appreciate...I'VE SEEN YOUR VERSION OF THE FACTS CHANGE SEVERAL TIMES DURING THIS DISCUSSION.

Wow, your comment is not productive or kind at all. Please be civil, and Winston is trying his best as always to have productive discussions. Thanks

[TVMayor]

As should you.............Frankly, I don't care WHAT you appreciate...I'VE SEEN YOUR VERSION OF THE FACTS CHANGE SEVERAL TIMES DURING THIS DISCUSSION.


Again, please, stay on topic and do NOT direct comments at other site members. Respect and civility are expected.

TVMayor

[Arctic Fox]

1600 in Spruce Creek South

Thank you, NoMoSno

[Moderator]

Original topic has seen some resolution at this point. Discussion is straying off topic. Additional actions regarding the situation will be addressed this upcoming week and can be discussed in new threads.