[dlzdhz]

Thanks for the website about the lien info, as I want to keep checking on that. Tomorrow we have our appointment with our lawyer to get our wills updated, and we plan on discussing this issue with him. I will update when we are done.

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by dlzdhz

Has anyone heard of this???

You know the old saying.... BUYER BEWARE.....

We just had pavers installed by a VERY reputable company, and 2 weeks after the job was done, one of the workers from the job knocked on our door and handed my husband a letter..... stating he was contacting his attorney due to non-payment for his services from the contractor. The Lien Law, in effect, states that the end user (my husband and I) can be liable for payment to the worker if the contractor does not pay him for services performed....
Excuse me, but we already paid over $7,000 for the job, which included all materials and labor, and why should I be responsible to pay the man's salary for the day again???

I contacted the owner of the company, and he told me not to worry, he had everything under control...the worker was fired, and we would not be responsible for any money. I asked for a letter stating I was not liable for any further costs due to him or anyone else. I am putting my faith in him that this is resolved to our satisfaction...

I contacted Joe Gorman, president of the Villages Homeowners Association, and I was told I needed to get a "Waiver of Lien" from the contractor, and it is a good idea to get this for ANY job a homeowner contracts, especially if the company uses sub-contractors!!!

I also contacted Marlene O'Toole, our Florida Legislator, and she did indeed say we had to be aware of the Lien Law, and to protect yourself, always get a waiver of lien from the contractor. She also suggested that I contact a lawyer and show them paperwork I received from the company owner, including my (belated) waiver of lien. She also said I should monitor that the disgrunteled worker does not put a lien on our home in the future, and this could be done, even if he may have been paid....

The pavers came out beyond gorgeous, but I hope they are worth the aggrevation that came along with them.... Just wanted everyone to be aware of this and not to get burned in the future!!!

Dlzdh,
It was very kind of you to post this to help others avoid a similar problem.

I am a little confused about what happened in this instance. The contractor said the "worker was fired". Was the person who knocked on your door a subcontractor or an employee of the contractor? I thought lien laws applied to subs and suppliers, not employees. It also was unclear from your post whether the contractor claimed to have paid the worker.

Also, it sounds a bit fishy to me that, rather than filing a lien, the worker (ex-employee?) knocked on your door and handed you a letter threatening to file one. You couldn't possibly know when he knocked whether he even had been paid. What did he expect you to do-- take out your wallet. Do you still have the letter? If so, and it turns out he was paid through the end of his employment, I would turn the letter over to police and have him arrested for attempted theft before he has a chance to scare another senior into giving him money.

[Autoshow]

Originally Posted by dlzdhz

Has anyone heard of this???

You know the old saying.... BUYER BEWARE.....

We just had pavers installed by a VERY reputable company, and 2 weeks after the job was done, one of the workers from the job knocked on our door and handed my husband a letter..... stating he was contacting his attorney due to non-payment for his services from the contractor. The Lien Law, in effect, states that the end user (my husband and I) can be liable for payment to the worker if the contractor does not pay him for services performed....
Excuse me, but we already paid over $7,000 for the job, which included all materials and labor, and why should I be responsible to pay the man's salary for the day again???

I contacted the owner of the company, and he told me not to worry, he had everything under control...the worker was fired, and we would not be responsible for any money. I asked for a letter stating I was not liable for any further costs due to him or anyone else. I am putting my faith in him that this is resolved to our satisfaction...

I contacted Joe Gorman, president of the Villages Homeowners Association, and I was told I needed to get a "Waiver of Lien" from the contractor, and it is a good idea to get this for ANY job a homeowner contracts, especially if the company uses sub-contractors!!!

I also contacted Marlene O'Toole, our Florida Legislator, and she did indeed say we had to be aware of the Lien Law, and to protect yourself, always get a waiver of lien from the contractor. She also suggested that I contact a lawyer and show them paperwork I received from the company owner, including my (belated) waiver of lien. She also said I should monitor that the disgrunteled worker does not put a lien on our home in the future, and this could be done, even if he may have been paid....

The pavers came out beyond gorgeous, but I hope they are worth the aggrevation that came along with them.... Just wanted everyone to be aware of this and not to get burned in the future!!!

I got burned the same way,lien was placed on my home when landscaper did not pay for product.I paid off the 300 dollar lien. cheap lesson for me. Have been here 8 years now and the warning is no matter what the rules are where you came from,here in florida the law is so very different. always make sure you get it all in writing and never pay a contractor in advance,if he does not have the cash or credit to get supplies,get a different contractor.

[Autoshow]

Originally Posted by Pturner

Dlzdh,
It was very kind of you to post this to help others avoid a similar problem.

I am a little confused about what happened in this instance. The contractor said the "worker was fired". Was the person who knocked on your door a subcontractor or an employee of the contractor? I thought lien laws applied to subs and suppliers, not employees. It also was unclear from your post whether the contractor claimed to have paid the worker.

Also, it sounds a bit fishy to me that, rather than filing a lien, the worker (ex-employee?) knocked on your door and handed you a letter threatening to file one. You couldn't possibly know when he knocked whether he even had been paid. What did he expect you to do-- take out your wallet. Do you still have the letter? If so, and it turns out he was paid through the end of his employment, I would turn the letter over to police and have him arrested for attempted theft before he has a chance to scare another senior into giving him money.

It works like this,contractor buys product,tells supplier it is for a certain address,if contractor does not pay supplier,supplier puts lien on home,in florida it is as simple as that. Home owner must get release of lien from contractor,that shows that contractor paid for supplies.

[GMONEY]

We use the lien law all the time.. It is a must.. Just about all the companies we deal with will use it. But there are time limits that also have to be applied. You have like 45 days from the date of work to file the NTO "Notice to Owner" paperwork. We usually file it right away so the homeowner gets the notice and can make sure the contractor pays his people and suppliers. The homeowner in return or contractor would then need for us to sign a release of lien. It is not only the small contractors like the company doing the paving job, but there are a few BIG companies right here in this area that will not pay their bills, so you have no other choice but to file it. Once it is filed and copies sent to the financial instituion, they can not get any more draws on a project with out the release of lien. It has saved us alot. I have had home owners call and yell wanting to know what this is about. Once it is explained they understand they need to check out who they are hiring and the reputation of the said company. If you hire some Joe off the street to do a job and price sounds to good, chances are something is rotten in denmark, if you know what I mean.

While yes I agree, why should anyone have to pay for a job twice, it is up to the homeowner to know who they hired and who they are contracting to do the job. And yes the lien law is needed, but yes it could be changed to make sure the owner knows in advance what is going on. It is alot more complicated than one can explain, but that is the jist of it. There are alot of so called contractors out there willing to scam people.

[Bryan]

Since you have researched the Florida lien laws pretty well, you should be aware that hired staff (workers) generally can't file a construction lien against you. The Lien Laws were made for subcontractors, in general. Well, I guess he can file a lien but can he make it stick, as only a fired worked and not as a subcontractor, I don't think so.

Second, construction liens have some restrictions. They must be filed within 90 days of the date of completion of the job (you worker did that) and they are only good for one year. After one year, if the person who filed the lien hasn't gone to court and gotten a judgment (and you would have an opportunity to defend yourself), the lien expires. If they win in court, and do get a judgment, whole different story.

You also have the right to demand they prove their claim in court within 90 days of filing it or withdraw it.

Yes, lien laws are complicated and most homeowners are unaware of them and their ramifications so caution is the byword.

[texasfal]

I'm surprised by the number of posters who'd never heard of this type of lien. It's very common. In Texas it's called a materialman's & mechanic's lien. Here in Florida it's just the lien law, but I bet if you worked with a reputable contractor, you actually signed some paperwork that included language about the lien. I had a circular driveway put in 2 months and one of the documents of the contract was the Lien.

[rjm1cc]

Might be helpfull if people that have had a problem post the name of the contractor they hired (not the sub that filed the lien)

[dlzdhz]

We just got back from the laywer....

Only a subcontracor can file a claim to put a lien on your house. All other claims from someone working for the contractor cannot file a claim, and if they do, will not hold up in court.
If the contractor is using sub-contractors, they are supposed to notify the owner by giving you a "Notice to Owner" paper, which states to you he is using sub-contractors for your job.
Upon completion of your job, PRIOR TO PAYMENT, you are supposed to get in writing documentation that all of the sub-contractors are paid in full, THEN you pay the final payment to the contractor.
In my case, the employee was in fact not a sub-contractor, and not able to file a complaint against us. I spoke to my contractor and I was told also a deal was worked out with the employee.
Needless to say, this is a learning experience!! We are aware of the questions to ask for future reference, and will save our paperwork from this experience in our safety deposit box until forever, just in case.....

[bkcunningham1]

Well wonderful dlzdhz. I'm glad it is working out for you guys. You got a lot of aggravation and even more education in one lesson.

[dlzdhz]

We used Old World Pavers.... but again, we are thrilled with the job they did, and we are happy that this issue has been resolved by the owner, Dave.

[Pturner]

dlzdhz, Thanks for the update. I'm so glad it worked out well.

[NotGolfer]

Bump.........

Just wondered how this lien thing would work if someone hires a contractor...say to enclose or enlarge a lanai. He begins the work BUT doesn't come back and finish the job nor does he answer his phone!! I've observed, at least the part where a job looks like it's been started but it's weeks/months and it shows no progress!! Beyond contacting Seniors Againest Crime...what is the recourse???

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

Bump.........

Just wondered how this lien thing would work if someone hires a contractor...say to enclose or enlarge a lanai. He begins the work BUT doesn't come back and finish the job nor does he answer his phone!! I've observed, at least the part where a job looks like it's been started but it's weeks/months and it shows no progress!! Beyond contacting Seniors Againest Crime...what is the recourse???

I believe when ypu contract you ask for a performance bond?

[mulligan]

Never pay anything up front ( if a contractor can't start a job because of money, you don't want to deal with him), always get the contractor's license #, and check with the florida BPR ( bureau of professional regulation ) on the status of the license, and ALWAYS put your eyes on his certificate of liability insurance, and workers Compensation ins. When people show up to work, if they are not employees of the contractor, they need to jump through the same hoops, or do not start working.