[MandoMan]

Today you are likely to hear on network news “shocking” information that people who kill “whites” are 17 times as likely to be executed as are people who kill “black” people. This is presented as a horrible instance of racism in action. But what is going on here? I’m quite puzzled.

Here is the New York Times article on the topic proclaiming a “Vast Racial Gap”:

A Vast Racial Gap in Death Penalty Cases, New Study Finds - The New York Times

Here is the 69 page scholarly Harvard University study, “Whom the State Kills,” on which the article is based:

https://harvardcrcl.org/wp-content/u...or-Website.pdf

Here is the chart from that paper on which the Times article is based (bottom of the page, perhaps):

What does the chart actually show: Only 2.26% of people who kill “white” victims are actually executed. By contrast, only 0.13% of people who kill “black” victims are actually executed. That’s where the “17 times as many” comes from. Out of 1503 killers of “black” victims, only 20 received the death sentence, and only 2 of the killers were actually executed. (One a murder of military personnel and the other a murder by a person in the military.) Out of 980 killers of “white” victims, by contrast, 107 were given the death penalty, though only 22 were executed.

Note that the Harvard study does NOT say what the race of the killers was. FBI statistics show that in the vast majority of cases, “whites” are killed by “whites and “blacks” are killed by “blacks”, but this article doesn’t say.

So, I’m puzzled about what we are to draw from this article. I’m sure what will be on television news will be something like “Glaring Inequality!” But how do we fix this inequality? In these days when we are constantly told that BLM, what are they proposing? In the name of equality, are we to cut back on the number of killers of “white” victims who are executed? Or are we to increase the number of killers of “black” victims who are executed by 17 times?

What do you think?

[dewilson58]

Come on! When you post something so irresponsible, you are encouraging clients to drop them and cutting their profits at a tough time and maybe costing people jobs.





(Various state laws impact stats.)

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing

Today you are likely to hear on network news “shocking” information that people who kill “whites” are 17 times as likely to be executed as are people who kill “black” people. This is presented as a horrible instance of racism in action. But what is going on here? I’m quite puzzled.

Here is the New York Times article on the topic proclaiming a “Vast Racial Gap”:

A Vast Racial Gap in Death Penalty Cases, New Study Finds - The New York Times

Here is the 69 page scholarly Harvard University study, “Whom the State Kills,” on which the article is based:

https://harvardcrcl.org/wp-content/u...or-Website.pdf

Here is the chart from that paper on which the Times article is based (bottom of the page, perhaps):

What does the chart actually show: Only 2.26% of people who kill “white” victims are actually executed. By contrast, only 0.13% of people who kill “black” victims are actually executed. That’s where the “17 times as many” comes from. Out of 1503 killers of “black” victims, only 20 received the death sentence, and only 2 of the killers were actually executed. (One a murder of military personnel and the other a murder by a person in the military.) Out of 980 killers of “white” victims, by contrast, 107 were given the death penalty, though only 22 were executed.

Note that the Harvard study does NOT say what the race of the killers was. FBI statistics show that in the vast majority of cases, “whites” are killed by “whites and “blacks” are killed by “blacks”, but this article doesn’t say.

So, I’m puzzled about what we are to draw from this article. I’m sure what will be on television news will be something like “Glaring Inequality!” But how do we fix this inequality? In these days when we are constantly told that BLM, what are they proposing? In the name of equality, are we to cut back on the number of killers of “white” victims who are executed? Or are we to increase the number of killers of “black” victims who are executed by 17 times?

What do you think?

I think the Harvard paper is exhibit A on how to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Besides, I am sure the NYT and Harvard are both against the death penalty anyway.

Note that the Harvard study does NOT say what the race of the killers was. FBI statistics show that in the vast majority of cases, “whites” are killed by “whites and “blacks” are killed by “blacks”, but this article doesn’t say.

They don't reveal this because it would undoubtably reveal reverse racism. More white murderers are executed than black murderers.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There are charts and graphs and data crunches on all kinds of things. THIS one is exclusively about "murderers executed in the category of the race of the victim."

You can find other charts and graphs and data crunches on "murderers executed in the category of the race of the murderer" online, but this one is not that.

In the very narrow scope of "murderers executed in the category of race of the victim" based on this one singular study - people who kill black people tend to go free significantly more often than people who kill white people.

If you can find a study from a credible source that indicates that murderers of white and black victims are executed equally, or that murderers of black people are executed more often than murderers of white people, I'd love to see the source.

If you're looking at other types of data, well they won't necessarily have anything to do with this type of data. Knowing whether or not (for example) the murderer was wearing a hat at the time of the murder, has nothing to do with the color of his victim.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

I think the Harvard paper is exhibit A on how to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Besides, I am sure the NYT and Harvard are both against the death penalty anyway.

Note that the Harvard study does NOT say what the race of the killers was. FBI statistics show that in the vast majority of cases, “whites” are killed by “whites and “blacks” are killed by “blacks”, but this article doesn’t say.

They don't reveal this because it would undoubtably reveal reverse racism. More white murderers are executed than black murderers.

Well then maybe they should stop murdering people. Whites kill more PEOPLE overall. In fact, most of the multiple-murder sprees are committed by people who are not black.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Well then maybe they should stop murdering people. Whites kill more PEOPLE overall. In fact, most of the multiple-murder sprees are committed by people who are not black.

And Blacks kill more per capita than whites

According to 2016 FBI data, black men commit murder 572.8% more than white men. Rapes are committed at a level of 146.1% greater, robbery at 617.9% greater, aggravated assault at 203.3% greater and violent crime in total at 263.6% greater.

[Stu from NYC]

How about we focus on children growing up in two parent households, staying in school to get better jobs and eliminate gangs.

Might be a great way to reduce shootings and lessen police encounters with blacks.

[blueash]

Nice job of not doing your diligence to answer your own question. The death penalty is much more likely to be imposed in a case where a black defendant kills a white victim. This has been true forever in this country. The same obviously was true when rape was a capital offense.

If you want to see data based on race of the individuals go to
Race | Death Penalty Information Center

The Harvard study which looks at the input of race not just in sentencing where a white death is five times more likely to result in a death sentence than a black death, but also in the rate of executions where a white death is 17 times more likely to result in an execution than a black death.

"Specifically, 2.26% (22/972) of the defendants who were convicted of killing a white victim were ultimately executed, compared to just 0.13% (2/1503) of the defendants convicted of killing a Black victim. Thus, the overall execution rate is a staggering seventeen times greater for defendants convicted of killing a white victim."

You may wish to read:
Catherine M. Grosso, Barbara O’Brien, Abijah Taylor & George Woodworth, Race
Discrimination and the Death Penalty: An Empirical and Legal Overview, in AMERICA’S
EXPERIMENT WITH CAPITAL PUNISHMENT:REFLECTION ON THE PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE OF THE ULTIMATE PENAL SANCTION 525–76 (James R. Acker, Robert M. Bohm & Charles S. Lanier eds., 3d ed., 2014)

which is a review of " thirty-six studies published since 1990 reported racial disparities in death sentencing based on the race of the defendant, the race of the victim, or the race of the defendant and victim in combination"

Once you have educated yourself on the bigger picture it will be completely clear that when a black person kills a white person the death penalty is much more likely to be imposed than in the reverse. This of course only looks at cases where there is a first degree murder charge. It does not look at the situation where prosecutors decide not to charge first degree murder with a death sentence requested if a white person kills a black, as of course now in many states the state of mind of the killer is taken into account and if he feared for his life, scary black person nearby, then that is an acceptable excuse.

This Harvard study shows that in Georgia, the only state analyzed, that the state is between 17 times and 38 times more likely to execute the killer when the victim was white. In other words a dead black person did not result in an execution, except in two cases. Both those cases where a dead black person led to an execution involved multiple homicides by the person executed. So in Georgia, 1503 black victims, 20 death sentences and 2 executions. At the same time period in Georgia 980 white victims and 107 death sentences with 22 executions. A dead white person clearly results in the state of Georgia imposing the death sentence more often. Ok to kill black people, not OK to kill white people.

Note that the Harvard study does NOT say what the race of the killers was

The races of the killers and victims who were executed is included in the study in Appendix A contrary to your assertion that the information was not included. Additional information is in Table 5 and 6.

So to summarize the result of this study... If you kill a white person in the state of Georgia and are sentenced to death, you are at least 17 times more likely to be executed than if you kill a black person and are sentenced to death. Because white lives matter.

[billethkid]

one can find a study to match any result/objective favored.
Accuracy is not a given without additional.....study!

For example.....reviewing/studying targets on the side of barns that had an arrow in the bullseye.
What would be the conclusion?
Would those who shoot the arrow into the barn first then paint the bullseye around it be included/concluded?

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There are charts and graphs and data crunches on all kinds of things. THIS one is exclusively about "murderers executed in the category of the race of the victim."

You can find other charts and graphs and data crunches on "murderers executed in the category of the race of the murderer" online, but this one is not that.

In the very narrow scope of "murderers executed in the category of race of the victim" based on this one singular study - people who kill black people tend to go free significantly more often than people who kill white people.

If you can find a study from a credible source that indicates that murderers of white and black victims are executed equally, or that murderers of black people are executed more often than murderers of white people, I'd love to see the source.

If you're looking at other types of data, well they won't necessarily have anything to do with this type of data. Knowing whether or not (for example) the murderer was wearing a hat at the time of the murder, has nothing to do with the color of his victim.

You seem to misunderstand my point. The “Stop and Frisk” policy was stopped in NYC because most of the people frisked and most of those arrested and most of those imprisoned were African-American, even though they made up a minority of the population. The BLM movement argues that police brutality is mostly against young African-American males. They want equality, which is not for MORE European-Americans to be frisked and arrested and brutalized, but for FEWER African-Americans to be treated that way. That seems like a solid argument, even if one could respond that criminals are being arrested and imprisoned—not innocent people.

But what is the intent of this new study? Is it suggesting that this is another example of the authorities not really caring about African-American victims because if they did, in the name of equality, they would execute 17 times as many murderers of African-Americans in the name of equality? Really? Are they saying that racist juries don’t care enough about African-American lives to sentence more murderers to death? I’m in favor of the death penalty, accomplished quickly and painlessly and inexpensively, for nearly all first degree murderers, but is that really what they are asking for? Most of those executed would be African-Americans. This seems like such a peculiar thing to complain about, given that the Times is opposed to the death penalty.

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by blueash

Nice job of not doing your diligence to answer your own question. The death penalty is much more likely to be imposed in a case where a black defendant kills a white victim. This has been true forever in this country. The same obviously was true when rape was a capital offense.

If you want to see data based on race of the individuals go to
Race | Death Penalty Information Center

The Harvard study which looks at the input of race not just in sentencing where a white death is five times more likely to result in a death sentence than a black death, but also in the rate of executions where a white death is 17 times more likely to result in an execution than a black death.

"Specifically, 2.26% (22/972) of the defendants who were convicted of killing a white victim were ultimately executed, compared to just 0.13% (2/1503) of the defendants convicted of killing a Black victim. Thus, the overall execution rate is a staggering seventeen times greater for defendants convicted of killing a white victim."

You may wish to read:
Catherine M. Grosso, Barbara O’Brien, Abijah Taylor & George Woodworth, Race
Discrimination and the Death Penalty: An Empirical and Legal Overview, in AMERICA’S
EXPERIMENT WITH CAPITAL PUNISHMENT:REFLECTION ON THE PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE OF THE ULTIMATE PENAL SANCTION 525–76 (James R. Acker, Robert M. Bohm & Charles S. Lanier eds., 3d ed., 2014)

which is a review of " thirty-six studies published since 1990 reported racial disparities in death sentencing based on the race of the defendant, the race of the victim, or the race of the defendant and victim in combination"

Once you have educated yourself on the bigger picture it will be completely clear that when a black person kills a white person the death penalty is much more likely to be imposed than in the reverse. This of course only looks at cases where there is a first degree murder charge. It does not look at the situation where prosecutors decide not to charge first degree murder with a death sentence requested if a white person kills a black, as of course now in many states the state of mind of the killer is taken into account and if he feared for his life, scary black person nearby, then that is an acceptable excuse.

This Harvard study shows that in Georgia, the only state analyzed, that the state is between 17 times and 38 times more likely to execute the killer when the victim was white. In other words a dead black person did not result in an execution, except in two cases. Both those cases where a dead black person led to an execution involved multiple homicides by the person executed. So in Georgia, 1503 black victims, 20 death sentences and 2 executions. At the same time period in Georgia 980 white victims and 107 death sentences with 22 executions. A dead white person clearly results in the state of Georgia imposing the death sentence more often. Ok to kill black people, not OK to kill white people.



The races of the killers and victims who were executed is included in the study in Appendix A contrary to your assertion that the information was not included. Additional information is in Table 5 and 6.

So to summarize the result of this study... If you kill a white person in the state of Georgia and are sentenced to death, you are at least 17 times more likely to be executed than if you kill a black person and are sentenced to death. Because white lives matter.

Sorry. I didn’t make it to the end of the 69 page paper, so I didn’t see those charts. Still, because most people who kill African-Americans are themselves African-Americans, to increase the number executed by 17 times would invariably greatly increase the number of African-Americans executed. It’s a strange argument to make in the light of the BLM movement, though I agree with the idea of more and better policing to make African-American neighborhoods safer. People shouldn’t have to live in fear, even if it’s their neighbors causing the fear.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing

Sorry. I didn’t make it to the end of the 69 page paper, so I didn’t see those charts. Still, because most people who kill African-Americans are themselves African-Americans, to increase the number executed by 17 times would invariably greatly increase the number of African-Americans executed. It’s a strange argument to make in the light of the BLM movement, though I agree with the idea of more and better policing to make African-American neighborhoods safer. People shouldn’t have to live in fear, even if it’s their neighbors causing the fear.

I am sorry you didn't read to the end of the paper as well. And if you now look at the racial information you will see that even though as you correctly state the overwhelming of black deaths are at the hand of black killers, a very large number of the executions are in cases where the victim was white but the killer was black. How come if most white deaths are caused by whites there are not more white people being executed for killing white people? Oh, systematic racism in the "justice" system might be part of the problem.

You are misunderstanding the point of the authors. The study was done to follow up on an earlier seminal paper looking at imposition of the death penalty in Georgia which showed that black defendants were much more likely to have the death penalty imposed on them especially if they killed a white person. The weakness in the study was not knowing the long term outcome.. how did being sentenced to death relate to actually being executed.

The Supreme Court attempted to address racial inequality in death sentences by saying death could only be imposed if there were aggregating circumstances. This was an attempt to eliminate racial animus in juries or judges sentencing choices. The court has not seriously looked at the outcome of that decision and this paper is addressing how race is still a huge factor in the death penalty and in execution outcome.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by blueash

I am sorry you didn't read to the end of the paper as well. And if you now look at the racial information you will see that even though as you correctly state the overwhelming of black deaths are at the hand of black killers, a very large number of the executions are in cases where the victim was white but the killer was black. How come if most white deaths are caused by whites there are not more white people being executed for killing white people? Oh, systematic racism in the "justice" system might be part of the problem.

You are misunderstanding the point of the authors. The study was done to follow up on an earlier seminal paper looking at imposition of the death penalty in Georgia which showed that black defendants were much more likely to have the death penalty imposed on them especially if they killed a white person. The weakness in the study was not knowing the long term outcome.. how did being sentenced to death relate to actually being executed.

The Supreme Court attempted to address racial inequality in death sentences by saying death could only be imposed if there were aggregating circumstances. This was an attempt to eliminate racial animus in juries or judges sentencing choices. The court has not seriously looked at the outcome of that decision and this paper is addressing how race is still a huge factor in the death penalty and in execution outcome.

///

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by blueash

I am sorry you didn't read to the end of the paper as well. And if you now look at the racial information you will see that even though as you correctly state the overwhelming of black deaths are at the hand of black killers, a very large number of the executions are in cases where the victim was white but the killer was black. How come if most white deaths are caused by whites there are not more white people being executed for killing white people? Oh, systematic racism in the "justice" system might be part of the problem.

You are misunderstanding the point of the authors. The study was done to follow up on an earlier seminal paper looking at imposition of the death penalty in Georgia which showed that black defendants were much more likely to have the death penalty imposed on them especially if they killed a white person. The weakness in the study was not knowing the long term outcome.. how did being sentenced to death relate to actually being executed.

The Supreme Court attempted to address racial inequality in death sentences by saying death could only be imposed if there were aggregating circumstances. This was an attempt to eliminate racial animus in juries or judges sentencing choices. The court has not seriously looked at the outcome of that decision and this paper is addressing how race is still a huge factor in the death penalty and in execution outcome.

Know what the biggest factor is? Don't murder people and commit violent crimes. Blacks do this more often per capita than any other race.

Sorry not sorry.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Know what the biggest factor is? Don't murder people and commit violent crimes. Blacks do this more often per capita than any other race.

Sorry not sorry.

True, black leadership should worry more about one parent families, gang membership and lack of education that makes it hard to earn a good income. Do that and pretty sure crime would plummet.

More of that and think a lot of the racial problems would fade away on its own.