[sunny56]

Number of inmates on death row in the US:

White: 1103; Black: 1089; Latino: 353; Other: 75


In 2018: 234 Blacks were killed by White; 514 Whites were killed by Blacks. There is the reason for the difference in numbers.

You need to stop making this a racist thing and pay attention to the actual numbers.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by sunny56

Number of inmates on death row in the US:

White: 1103; Black: 1089; Latino: 353; Other: 75


In 2018: 234 Blacks were killed by White; 514 Whites were killed by Blacks. There is the reason for the difference in numbers.

You need to stop making this a racist thing and pay attention to the actual numbers.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by sunny56

Number of inmates on death row in the US:

White: 1103; Black: 1089; Latino: 353; Other: 75


In 2018: 234 Blacks were killed by White; 514 Whites were killed by Blacks. There is the reason for the difference in numbers.

You need to stop making this a racist thing and pay attention to the actual numbers.

But the facts seem very confusing to so many people.

[blueash]

This entire thread is so typical of discussions of race on this and other websites. A story is posted by someone who from reading their past posts would be much more likely be anti - BLM and he hopes to stir up a discussion about race. He doesn't bother to actually read the material and doesn't seem to understand the point of the study or else he is deliberately mistaking the authors' viewpoint.

One anti-BLM poster comes here to make tell us:

Note that the Harvard study does NOT say what the race of the killers was. FBI statistics show that in the vast majority of cases, “whites” are killed by “whites and “blacks” are killed by “blacks”, but this article doesn’t say.

They don't reveal this because it would undoubtably [sic] reveal reverse racism. More white murderers are executed than black murderers.

[the authors did give the race of killer and victim so your implication is false]

something he thinks is very important about race and murder and that the authors are deliberately withholding data as to present the data would hurt their position.

and that

Don't murder people and commit violent crimes. Blacks do this more often per capita than any other race.

Sorry not sorry.

again to tell us that blacks are criminals and that therefore the justice system has to deal with them in an out of proportional amount.

When it is pointed out that the conclusion of the study is that race, not frequency of crimes, is what is studied and a black death vs a white death is not treated the same by the state of Georgia in the time period examined we are treated to a new set of confused people posting:

In 2018: 234 Blacks were killed by White; 514 Whites were killed by Blacks. There is the reason for the difference in numbers.

You need to stop making this a racist thing and pay attention to the actual numbers.

I don't mind be corrected by people who are on topic, but the topic here is not what is the ratio of such crimes. It is how are such crimes punished and you will find a key factor is race. If I used your data and it showed that of the 234 white killers none got the death sentence for killing a black person, but every black person, all 514 who killed a white person was given a death sentence would you tell me that justice is equally applied to black and white? Nope. Of course that is not the rate of sentencing but your data is meaningless to the question addressed in the study which looks at the percentage of death sentences carried out on people who are sentenced to die for killing a white person vs killing a black person.

This paper shows that race plays a role in the administration of the death penalty. It has already been shown to play a role in arrests and convictions. You can all say quit talking about race as it isn't important. Funny how white people say that.

Just today we have two more stories about cops acting all racist against black families in a way that would just not happen if the victims of the police action had been white.

A White State Trooper’s Violent Encounter with Two Black Teens Results in No Charges and Many Questions - INDY Week

Aurora Police 'Mistake' Black Family's SUV for Motorcycle | Law & Crime

Every single day there are stories that show how Black Lives don't Matter to too many cops. How they have the same built in automatic prejudice that a Black face equals a criminal not an innocent citizen which those of us who are white never have to fear or face.

If Black leaders would just make their people not commit so many crimes then all Black people wouldn't be seen as criminals. Do you all recall how cocaine was the scourge of America and lock those people away forever.. until it turned out white people used it too, then it became we need drug addiction treatment not jail.. ditto for heroin now. Race is a critical factor in what is seen as a crime, in how police do their jobs, in how charging decisions are made, in how juries see evidence and judge guilt, in how sentences are handed down, and now also in how executions are carried out. We do not have equal justice, racially blind justice. The authors are showing that to you if you care to read all 69 pages.

The law is required to be applied in a race neutral way to be constitutional, including the imposition of execution. Nor can it be arbitrary such as simply deciding to execute people whose birthday is evenly divisible by 7. As the authors state on page 52

"As applied to executions, the original research presented in this paper would suffice to make a prima facie case of disparate treatment among those sentenced to death,
and so the burden would shift to the state to prove that the system was executing persons in a race-neutral manner."

This paper is just another bit of evidence that our justice system is not just and a plea for making capital punishment a thing of the past.

Sorry, not sorry

[GoodLife]

Blah blah blah systemic racism by cops and courts is the problem

Actual systemic problem: blacks commit more crimes per capita

Stop committing crimes

Race card is a smokescreen

[camaguey48]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

True, black leadership should worry more about one parent families, gang membership and lack of education that makes it hard to earn a good income. Do that and pretty sure crime would plummet.

More of that and think a lot of the racial problems would fade away on its own.

Agreed. Don't believe everything you read. Even salt looks like sugar.

[JimJohnson]

I’m in my 70’s and have watched racial equity inch forward very slowly over my lifetime, but nevertheless, inch forward. In the last few years, I see us rushing backwards. I no longer have hope to see racial equality in my lifetime.

[DrBrutyle109]

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing

Today you are likely to hear on network news “shocking” information that people who kill “whites” are 17 times as likely to be executed as are people who kill “black” people. This is presented as a horrible instance of racism in action. But what is going on here? I’m quite puzzled.

Here is the New York Times article on the topic proclaiming a “Vast Racial Gap”:

A Vast Racial Gap in Death Penalty Cases, New Study Finds - The New York Times

Here is the 69 page scholarly Harvard University study, “Whom the State Kills,” on which the article is based:

https://harvardcrcl.org/wp-content/u...or-Website.pdf

Here is the chart from that paper on which the Times article is based (bottom of the page, perhaps):

What does the chart actually show: Only 2.26% of people who kill “white” victims are actually executed. By contrast, only 0.13% of people who kill “black” victims are actually executed. That’s where the “17 times as many” comes from. Out of 1503 killers of “black” victims, only 20 received the death sentence, and only 2 of the killers were actually executed. (One a murder of military personnel and the other a murder by a person in the military.) Out of 980 killers of “white” victims, by contrast, 107 were given the death penalty, though only 22 were executed.

Note that the Harvard study does NOT say what the race of the killers was. FBI statistics show that in the vast majority of cases, “whites” are killed by “whites and “blacks” are killed by “blacks”, but this article doesn’t say.

So, I’m puzzled about what we are to draw from this article. I’m sure what will be on television news will be something like “Glaring Inequality!” But how do we fix this inequality? In these days when we are constantly told that BLM, what are they proposing? In the name of equality, are we to cut back on the number of killers of “white” victims who are executed? Or are we to increase the number of killers of “black” victims who are executed by 17 times?

What do you think?

I think you can make numbers look like whatever YOU want.

[tsmall22204]

Not sure where you are coming from. I do feel that anyone who puts this much time into comparing deaths has a problem. Is it racism?

[crash]

OP there is systemic racism in the United States and if you can’t see it you are blind.

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by blueash

This entire thread is so typical of discussions of race on this and other websites. A story is posted by someone who from reading their past posts would be much more likely be anti - BLM and he hopes to stir up a discussion about race. He doesn't bother to actually read the material and doesn't seem to understand the point of the study or else he is deliberately mistaking the authors' viewpoint.

One anti-BLM poster comes here to make tell us:
[the authors did give the race of killer and victim so your implication is false]

something he thinks is very important about race and murder and that the authors are deliberately withholding data as to present the data would hurt their position.

and that


again to tell us that blacks are criminals and that therefore the justice system has to deal with them in an out of proportional amount.

When it is pointed out that the conclusion of the study is that race, not frequency of crimes, is what is studied and a black death vs a white death is not treated the same by the state of Georgia in the time period examined we are treated to a new set of confused people posting:



I don't mind be corrected by people who are on topic, but the topic here is not what is the ratio of such crimes. It is how are such crimes punished and you will find a key factor is race. If I used your data and it showed that of the 234 white killers none got the death sentence for killing a black person, but every black person, all 514 who killed a white person was given a death sentence would you tell me that justice is equally applied to black and white? Nope. Of course that is not the rate of sentencing but your data is meaningless to the question addressed in the study which looks at the percentage of death sentences carried out on people who are sentenced to die for killing a white person vs killing a black person.

This paper shows that race plays a role in the administration of the death penalty. It has already been shown to play a role in arrests and convictions. You can all say quit talking about race as it isn't important. Funny how white people say that.

Just today we have two more stories about cops acting all racist against black families in a way that would just not happen if the victims of the police action had been white.

https://indyweek.com/news/northcarolina/johnston-county-state-troopers-violent-encounter/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us]A White State Trooper’s Violent Encounter with Two Black Teens Results in No Charges and Many Questions - INDY Week[/url]

Aurora Police 'Mistake' Black Family's SUV for Motorcycle | Law & Crime

Every single day there are stories that show how Black Lives don't Matter to too many cops. How they have the same built in automatic prejudice that a Black face equals a criminal not an innocent citizen which those of us who are white never have to fear or face.

If Black leaders would just make their people not commit so many crimes then all Black people wouldn't be seen as criminals. Do you all recall how cocaine was the scourge of America and lock those people away forever.. until it turned out white people used it too, then it became we need drug addiction treatment not jail.. ditto for heroin now. Race is a critical factor in what is seen as a crime, in how police do their jobs, in how charging decisions are made, in how juries see evidence and judge guilt, in how sentences are handed down, and now also in how executions are carried out. We do not have equal justice, racially blind justice. The authors are showing that to you if you care to read all 69 pages.

The law is required to be applied in a race neutral way to be constitutional, including the imposition of execution. Nor can it be arbitrary such as simply deciding to execute people whose birthday is evenly divisible by 7. As the authors state on page 52

"As applied to executions, the original research presented in this paper would suffice to make a prima facie case of disparate treatment among those sentenced to death,
and so the burden would shift to the state to prove that the system was executing persons in a race-neutral manner."

This paper is just another bit of evidence that our justice system is not just and a plea for making capital punishment a thing of the past.

Sorry, not sorry

Thanks for your post. Actually, I had spent over an hour reading about thirty pages of the scholarly paper before posting. I doubt that very many read to the end. My interest was simply in the odd fact that apparently equality before the law would require executing killers 17 times as often. It was as if the anti-death penalty NYTimes had failed to notice the contradiction. Even then, that would only be (what was it?) 2.3% of murderers executed? I doubt that executing around three dozen murderers would stop the problem of people killing other people. It may be an equality not to be sought, an inequity not to be righted. If people watching the news saw that headline and thought “this is a terrible inequity,” they would be seriously misunderstanding the numbers.

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by tsmall22204

Not sure where you are coming from. I do feel that anyone who puts this much time into comparing deaths has a problem. Is it racism?

Perhaps my point was too subtle. I’m interested in odd contradictions wherever I find them. I’m in favor of rightIng inequity, but it seems so odd for the Times to write an article about an inequity when righting it would seem to require executing more people for the sake of fairness.

For example, if you earn $1,000 for some task and I earn 17 times more than you for doing the same task, $17,000, you might argue that we have the same job, so equity demands that we should earn the same amount. But if you owe the bank $1,000 and I owe the bank $17,000, you probably would not argue that fairness demands that you get to owe the bank $17,000, too. It wouldn’t be sensible. But that seems to be what the Times article was suggesting, if one considers the implications.

Actually, relatively few murderers are put on Death Row, and very few of those are executed. The death penalty is a very complicated issue, and I wasn’t trying to solve it. I was simply interested in an article that seemed not to understand the implications of what it was revealing.

[oneclickplus]

I say execute ALL killers so that we don't have to read stories of statistics about racist policies. Execute them all and the argument goes away. 100% of all murderers executed regardless of race of murderer or victim. Problem solved.

[Girlcopper]

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing

You seem to misunderstand my point. The “Stop and Frisk” policy was stopped in NYC because most of the people frisked and most of those arrested and most of those imprisoned were African-American, even though they made up a minority of the population. The BLM movement argues that police brutality is mostly against young African-American males. They want equality, which is not for MORE European-Americans to be frisked and arrested and brutalized, but for FEWER African-Americans to be treated that way. That seems like a solid argument, even if one could respond that criminals are being arrested and imprisoned—not innocent people.

But what is the intent of this new study? Is it suggesting that this is another example of the authorities not really caring about African-American victims because if they did, in the name of equality, they would execute 17 times as many murderers of African-Americans in the name of equality? Really? Are they saying that racist juries don’t care enough about African-American lives to sentence more murderers to death? I’m in favor of the death penalty, accomplished quickly and painlessly and inexpensively, for nearly all first degree murderers, but is that really what they are asking for? Most of those executed would be African-Americans. This seems like such a peculiar thing to complain about, given that the Times is opposed to the death penalty.

You say stop and frisk was banned due to more blacks being arrested and imprisoned. Well, simple thought.....if they werent found to be violating a law at the time, carrying a weapon, having an outstanding warra nt, then they wouldnt have been arrested. When someone gets the death penalty, they sit on death row for decades until they exhaust all their appeals which means they managed to live for decades more. Did the victim get to? Everyone needs to stop quoting statistics. Yes, some blacks are targeted. Could it be they are known criminals who constantly come in contact with police for crimes? Just like people who are registered sex offenders will be targeted if there happens to be a rape in their area. REGARDLESS of their color. If an area is a majority of black residents, the perpetrators will most likely be black. How about we just look at the crime committed instead of the color of someone. Plus, if you dont want to be targeted by police then dont get the reputation of being a punk.

[Viperguy]

I don't see racists, I see crime. Triple law enforcement and anti drug enforcement and most won't have any reason to commit crime. It's drugs.