[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

"Most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Christians (54 out of 56). Twenty-seven (27) of them held theology degrees." They based the Declaration upon a greater foundational belief that God, or as written in the Declaration “Creator,” was the source for men’s irrevocable rights.

Uh, two things. I can't find a single reference to support this. I have read the Patriot Papers several times (debates between them about how to form eh government and there was little to no reference to what you say) From what I can find, it appears 3 Framers were practicing Christians.

So, I call false, unless you can provide evidence.

Second. I don't care what religion or lack of it the framers practiced in their lives. They did not include it in the Constitution, the only mention of it BANS it from government. If they were practicing Christians, why would they do that? That means to me, that ANYONE promoting religion in the government is anti-constitution.

Just saying...

I will leave it to smarter people here who have already debunked this too do it again.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Uh, yeah, considering there had just been a successful insurrection, uh, revolution, and a lot of people that were "loyalists" and if they had the ability would certainly have caused trouble for the newbies starting the new country.

There is also significant evidence that the 2nd amendment was put in to get states supporting slavery to sign on, since they wanted guns to control the slaves, and the slaves, not being humans, were not allowed to own guns, so did not benefit from the 2nd.

I expect it is HARD to KNOW what all went into the politics of forming a new country and a new form of government (sort of). I am certain there was a lot of closed door meetings and margining going on.

But, it is there, it is the law. So, since there is not a snowballs chance in hell of repealing the 2nd, we live with it.

Works for me. I have enjoyed target shooting since I was a teenager and still do. And I have owned many guns in my lifetime and still do, and not one of them has gone on a killing rampage. Guess I know how to pick them, huh?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

And how many of that 400 million guns have been used to kill other citizens? Should we ban all guns because a few were used in a commission of a crime? How many times were they used to save a life? That is an interesting point, because I think there have been more cases of guns saving lives than taking them in a crime. ALMOST every study conducted in America says that guns save lives in millions of incidents, vs lives lost by guns in the thousands. SO, if a hundred lives are saved compared to one life lost in gun related crimes, then the whole debate is moot.

A very small number of them. Please, since you seem obsessed with my posts, provide me with ANY example of my promoting banning all guns. Please.

How many times are they used to save a life - do you men where the person shot was trying to kill them with a bat? or a Gun? I expect most cases of self defense with gun shooting an assailant, the assailant also had a gun. So, maybe if neither had a gun, the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten with a bat.

Ah, finally, you get to your point, 19 children lives are an acceptable price to pay if guns can save lives too. I will be sure to let the parents know.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

True, "gun violence" is not our forte - well, it is sort of among 1st world countries (peers), but not worldwide.

However, we do excel at murdering our children while they learn to read.

But a lot more murdered before born. Oh well, guess that doesn't concern anyone, right?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

How many cars have been used to murder children in their classrooms at school?

I wait while you look up the answer since you seem to think this post will contribute to saving children lives.

It seems almost every week another shooting kills more kids, and what do we have to offer as a sign to the parents that we care at all? Sarcasm? Children are dying. They are being murdered. Can we please argue about the color of peoples skin, or the cause of poverty, or wars, or stupid politicians, and for the sake of our children TRY to find something that will HELP. Not SOVLE, just help.

The greatest country on earth and we can't even set aside politics long enough to TRY and find a way to reduce the number of kids being murdered.

One question to be asked, "is the US STILL the greatest country?" It was at least in the top ten after WWW2. But today, when you look at comparative lists of countries, you find that we are # 1 in gun violence and deaths.......that's not too wonderful. We are about 30th in the factor called ......upward mobility - the UK is about 10th. And we are #1 in wealth disparity. Please check the other factors on the country comparisons list. You might not go away thinking "greatest country". I really WISH that it was!
..........think about how factors like extreme wealth disparity intensify the propensity for some marginal male youth to see GUNS and violence as an easy and thrilling way to improve their life. They might join forces in a gang or they could go crazy and individually just kill adults and children as punishment for THEIR dead-end lives.
.........Many young males (in every country, not just the US) feel like they are swimming upstream in an environment that HATES them and one where they can NEVER succeed. In the US they have the greatest access to semi-auto weapons of war than any other country so we have the greatest amount of mass murders.

[MrFlorida]

Kids today are desensitized with all the violence in the movies, and on video games. It's no wonder they are all messed up and prone to violence. If you don't believe me, watch your grand kids video games...

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Works for me. I have enjoyed target shooting since I was a teenager and still do. And I have owned many guns in my lifetime and still do, and not one of them has gone on a killing rampage. Guess I know how to pick them, huh?

Agreed, and the vast majority of gun owners are responsible - like you. Thank you.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

A very small number of them. Please, since you seem obsessed with my posts, provide me with ANY example of my promoting banning all guns. Please.

How many times are they used to save a life - do you men where the person shot was trying to kill them with a bat? or a Gun? I expect most cases of self defense with gun shooting an assailant, the assailant also had a gun. So, maybe if neither had a gun, the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten with a bat.

Ah, finally, you get to your point, 19 children lives are an acceptable price to pay if guns can save lives too. I will be sure to let the parents know.

Just enjoying a civil conversation with an intelligent person, NOT "obsessed."

I don't believe I indicated that you wished to ban all guns, did I? If so, my mistake.
No, I do not believe that 19 children's' lives justify gun ownership, and I don't believe that I suggested that, did I? But, please DO give them my condolences since you plan on contacting them. Thank you.

Not sure where you get the idea that "the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten by a bat." I guess that unlike me, you may not have law enforcement experience and know that a bat or club has been the cause of many murders. I believe that death trumps concussion, right? Personally, if someone came at me with a bat, I too would use lethal force to protect myself. I am not as young as I used to be and not quite up to fighting bare hands against a bat wielding assailant. Fortunately, the law allows for self defense, still.

[MartinSE]

///

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Just enjoying a civil conversation with an intelligent person, NOT "obsessed."

I don't believe I indicated that you wished to ban all guns, did I? If so, my mistake.
No, I do not believe that 19 children's' lives justify gun ownership, and I don't believe that I suggested that, did I? But, please DO give them my condolences since you plan on contacting them. Thank you.

Not sure where you get the idea that "the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten by a bat." I guess that unlike me, you may not have law enforcement experience and know that a bat or club has been the cause of many murders. I believe that death trumps concussion, right? Personally, if someone came at me with a bat, I too would use lethal force to protect myself. I am not as young as I used to be and not quite up to fighting bare hands against a bat wielding assailant. Fortunately, the law allows for self defense, still.

No, I don't have law enforcement, unless you consider the Marines qualifications.

And yes, I am CERTAIN you can kill a person with a bat, but the more likely outcome is someone is unconscious. Please explain how a person with a bat can kill two teachers and 19 children in 2 minutes? I expect it can happen, but it is SO much easier with a semiautomatic weapon. As I have said over and over, guns don't kill people, guns facilitate it.

[Keefelane66]

I feel so much safer the states are ATTEMPTING to ban birth control and IUD’s than regulating guns!

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

One question to be asked, "is the US STILL the greatest country?" It was at least in the top ten after WWW2. But today, when you look at comparative lists of countries, you find that we are # 1 in gun violence and deaths.......that's not too wonderful. We are about 30th in the factor called ......upward mobility - the UK is about 10th. And we are #1 in wealth disparity. Please check the other factors on the country comparisons list. You might not go away thinking "greatest country". I really WISH that it was!
..........think about how factors like extreme wealth disparity intensify the propensity for some marginal male youth to see GUNS and violence as an easy and thrilling way to improve their life. They might join forces in a gang or they could go crazy and individually just kill adults and children as punishment for THEIR dead-end lives.
.........Many young males (in every country, not just the US) feel like they are swimming upstream in an environment that HATES them and one where they can NEVER succeed. In the US they have the greatest access to semi-auto weapons of war than any other country so we have the greatest amount of mass murders.

Taking all of what you said at face value, as being possibly being accurate to an extent, I suggest something that many should consider. Instead of comparing stats, try comparing lifestyles of the different countries compared to ours. And I am not attempting to belittle these tragedies by saying they are minor compared to other causes of deaths in our country. Our lifestyle, even at what is considered poverty level is better than most European or other countries. Our poverty level families live as well as many middle class families in other countries. Just pointing out what I have personally observed living most of my life overseas.

"Extreme wealth disparity" is a myth used by a few for other purposes that I can't say on here without being punished. We have a greater opportunity to succeed in this country than anywhere else. The only excuse is self inflicted lack of motivation to excel.

In my opinion (and I know I will be corrected if thought wrong) one reason for such violence and lack of respect for others is that many young folks are not busy or occupied enough. Growing up, my generation mostly worked in some manner. We had paper routes, mowed lawns, collected refundable sofa bottle deposits, washed cars, pulled weeds, lemonade stands, harvested tobacco, or other crops, etc. When we were young, you could get a paying job at age 14 with a workers permit in my state. Keeping kids busy gives them self-respect and their mind focused on goals.

Of course, there has always been violence in the world, ever since Cain and Able.

[biker1]

Which states are attempting to ban birth control?

Originally Posted by Keefelane66

I feel so much safer the states are ATTEMPTING to ban birth control and IUD’s than regulating guns!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

One question to be asked, "is the US STILL the greatest country?" It was at least in the top ten after WWW2. But today, when you look at comparative lists of countries, you find that we are # 1 in gun violence and deaths.......that's not too wonderful. We are about 30th in the factor called ......upward mobility - the UK is about 10th. And we are #1 in wealth disparity. Please check the other factors on the country comparisons list. You might not go away thinking "greatest country". I really WISH that it was!
..........think about how factors like extreme wealth disparity intensify the propensity for some marginal male youth to see GUNS and violence as an easy and thrilling way to improve their life. They might join forces in a gang or they could go crazy and individually just kill adults and children as punishment for THEIR dead-end lives.
.........Many young males (in every country, not just the US) feel like they are swimming upstream in an environment that HATES them and one where they can NEVER succeed. In the US they have the greatest access to semi-auto weapons of war than any other country so we have the greatest amount of mass murders.

Another question to be asked, "Is the US moving toward BEING a 3rd world country". There are signs that the US is moving that way. One sign is the extreme wealth disparity similar to a country like Honduras. The wealth disparity sucks the relative wealth from the US middle-class when situations like middle-class protection factors such as labor unions are eliminated and Congress passes tax legislation by wealthy people to benefit WEALTHY people.
..........Canada is SO worried about changes in the US that they have done studies to protect Canadians from problems caused by their Southern Neighbor. They would NOT have been that worried 10 years ago.
.......If the US changes toward being more of a 3rd world country, there would be MORE frustrated young males contemplating Mass Murder, not LESS !

[Keefelane66]

Originally Posted by biker1

Which states are attempting to ban birth control?

A state-by-state breakdown of how Republicans plan to attack reproductive healthcare