[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Compare the gun deaths of any of America's largest inner cities, to the gun deaths in the surrounding suburbs and rural areas.

Very true

[thevillages2013]

Originally Posted by tklloop

It’s amazing how most on this site repost the same old talking points from Fox noise and the far right gun nutz! The issue is very simple,,,,, stronger background checks- what we have now is lame and useless! Not one person in america needs to own an Assault rifle! NO ONE!. Not one person in America needs to own body armor! If any 18 year old child purchases an Assault rifle, body armor, and massive ammo,,,,RED FLAG folks!

If I want to own one it’s none of anyone’s business. Guns are guns . A damn 9mm will kill 30 people within two minutes or less so it’s not the gun it’s the ABSOLUTE NUT pulling the trigger

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

For over two hundreds years we have had total access to nearly every type of firearm and then Columbine in 1999; and many mass shootings since then. Our access to guns did not change. In other words, you could buy whatever you wanted. So what changed? The only portion of the equation that changed was the people. The access to the internet and the rise of social media has created a new generation of people with low morals and very poor social skills. The AR has been around for over 60 years. Now all of a sudden it is a problem.

People who believe the dogma that it's the gun, it's the gun, lack critical thinking skills and are easily manipulated by the media they watch. That is a major factor why this problem won't be solved.

Law abiding Americans will not voluntarily give up their guns. Forcing them to do so by law will end up with a repeat of 1776. The number of people who would die if such an event happened will make all mass shootings pale in comparison. Gun control fanatics are barking up the wrong tree.

The responsibility of maintaining our Freedom is up to each one of us. Even if you don't exercise your 2nd Amendment Right you should never surrender it. "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty".

For argument's sake let's say that I believed the theory that people in the US somehow (?) changed around 1999 into mass-murdering zombies. How does that explain away the fact that both Australia and New Zealand brought down mass murders to about zero after they had years of problems by concentrating on the GUN? They said NO semi-automatic rifles. They can have bolt actions. Then, why does the US have the MOST, by far, available GUNS and also the MOST gun violence in the world?
......... The GUN is the obvious factor for the US being # 1.

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

For argument's sake let's say that I believed the theory that people in the US somehow (?) changed around 1999 into mass-murdering zombies. How does that explain away the fact that both Australia and New Zealand brought down mass murders to about zero after they had years of problems by concentrating on the GUN? They said NO semi-automatic rifles. They can have bolt actions. Then, why does the US have the MOST, by far, available GUNS and also the MOST gun violence in the world?
......... The GUN is the obvious factor for the US being # 1.

Jim, we are not talking about murderous zombies. We are talking about American citizens who, in the past 20 years, have gone on heinous shooting sprees targeting defenseless victims. The select gun free zones for maximum carnage. There is a very serious fault in their brain, not their trigger finger. It is very short sighted to think a cookie cutter approach will be effective, at any cost. That is your solution, at any cost restrict the Rights of hundreds of millions of people because of the actions of dozens. The leap you have to make to justify that is just bizarre.

I have a better solution. Since the problem is clearly a male problem how about if we just make it illegal for men to have guns. Women committing these heinous crimes are so rare it's safe to say the nation would be much safer if only women had access to guns.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

You're wrong, I'm afraid.

AR-15 - style rifles (and large capacity 30-round clips), under the original Colt patent, have been sold to and were popular with American gun enthusiasts for well over 50 years. No less an authoritative source than NPR states this: "For more than a half-century, the AR-15 has been popular among gun owners, widely available in gun stores and, for many years, even appeared in the Sears catalog...." ("A Brief History of the AR-15", Greg Myre, NPR, February 28, 2018). Once the colt patent expired, other gun companies began manufacturing the AR-15 type as well. Remember--the type was designed to be sold to America's CIVILIAN population and they've been around for a long time and were quite popular well over a half-century ago.

But guns with large-capacity magazines have been around far longer than that. Keeping it to more-or-less recent history, following WW II hundreds of thousands of surplus M1 Carbines were sold to the public: many by the Federal Government itself at steeply discounted prices under the Civilian Marksmanship Program. They came with 20-round clips but even then, larger clips were available for purchase. I recall seeing the ads in The American Rifleman magazines: you could buy many surplus military rifles, not just the MI Carbine, for as little as $12.00, and as I recall the NRA as well as other retailers sold the large-capacity clips as well.

You may be thinking of the Federal Firearms Control Act, which banned large-capacity magazines (I believe any that held more than eleven rounds) but that was in effect for only 10 years, 1994 to 2004.

The fact of the matter is that semi-automatic rifles with large-capacity clips have been around since the middle of the last century, and were probably a whole lot more available to people then, than the AR-15 models are available for purchase now. But even with the easier access, things like Texas or Columbine just didn't happen then.

Face it. It's a people problem, NOT a gun problem. And until we fix the people, that won't change.

That is a nice explanation of the history of guns from 1950 to say 1999. But after that, things started to evolve from hunting guns to man-killing semi-auto military-style guns. Man-killing guns made more profits for the gun makers. Both mental illness and violent movies or games are the same worldwide. The US is by far the outlier among all countries because it has, by far, the most mass murders. So, what is the reason for this? The only FACTOR left is that the US has the most, BY FAR, available semi-auto military-style rifles - the weapon of choice for mass murderers.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Scbang

If you remember the days when your company treated you like a family. Many of us joined a company thinking one day you will retire from the same company. There were office parties for your personal celebration and company picnics and yes, pensions for your long dedicated service. Some of us were actually happy to go to work spend time with your co-worker/friends. Then over the years the society changed, Business changed to pursuit of profits regardless of employee happiness. Remember the movie "Wallstreet"? Michael Douglas claimed "Greed is Good".
Now, happy people with guns should have no reason to become a mass murderer. But society changed. Opioid epidemic means killing more people means more profit. In this environment, we must change. We have to limit the availability of guns that can kill people so easily so fast. 2nd amendment yes but when Gov has F-35, what chances average citizens have to resist and win against them. Voting is one way but for guns, I think license/reg/insurance is the way to go to limit the availability.

Sadness

The movie about "Greed is Good" was like a turning point in America. Today "the Handmaid's Tale" seems like another turning point. The increasing quantity of guns (and type) in the last 2 years may be a bad premonition of things to come.

[Nucky]

A lifetime ago I had a business relationship with the Board of Education in Paterson N.J. During this time I had many conversations while providing a service to some machinery in all of the schools. I was speaking to a man named Joe Clark. We became friends. I'm not certain what his job was when I met him but I sure did know it a few years later.

The summer that they filmed the movie in East Side H.S. they spray painted the walls, threw garbage on the floor, and exaggerated how dirty the place really was. I guess that was just Hollywood putting their flavor on the site.

This man singlehandedly took on many members of the Board of Education in Paterson who seemed to work against him as he tried to prevent drug dealers from walking the hallways, going into classrooms, and having free run of the school he was put in charge of. He chained the doors and locked the doors with chains and locks you couldn't buy at Rickels. He took the money from his own pocket. He cared about the kids and teachers in the school and wanted to provide a safe environment for them to be able to learn. Unfortunately, the kids came from the hood. Many looked to Mr. Clark as a father figure. He did his best to speak in the auditorium to the kids about avoiding the temptation that was all around them. He spoke of teenage pregnancy and the down side of what comes with it.

He was making great progress and was making some of the higher-ups look bad. He had the recipe. He was snuffed out before he could complete his mission. He changed many people's lives for the better. He cried like a little girl the day that someone was raped in the stair case in the school. He didn't give up, he doubled up his efforts. He was the kind of leader that we need now who puts the children before everything else. What a great guy he was. I just looked at Wikipedia and see that he died a few years ago here in Florida.

I wonder what he would have done under the present conditions? I'll bet talking about everything would be low on his list and action would be on top.

I have no words for what's going on in these schools now. NOTHING I say will help or be constructive. We need a miracle to turn things around. We need someone like Joe Clark to come to the rescue. Many people thought he was nuts, he was a great man who motivated the un-motivateable and broke the chain of failure and abuse in many families in Paterson N.J. Hey Joe, send your replacement quickly, we're in deep trouble.

He was really something else with that megaphone. What a memory all this is for me. I think I'll go cry like a little girl for a little bit.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Compare the gun deaths of any of America's largest inner cities, to the gun deaths in the surrounding suburbs and rural areas.

Yes, and next I should compare 5 apples to 7 oranges.

[Djean1981]

It's cultural. No God in schools and no daddy at home. Social media and device addiction. This is the result. Narcissists willing to kill for attention..

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

Jim, we are not talking about murderous zombies. We are talking about American citizens who, in the past 20 years, have gone on heinous shooting sprees targeting defenseless victims. The select gun free zones for maximum carnage. There is a very serious fault in their brain, not their trigger finger. It is very short sighted to think a cookie cutter approach will be effective, at any cost. That is your solution, at any cost restrict the Rights of hundreds of millions of people because of the actions of dozens. The leap you have to make to justify that is just bizarre.

I have a better solution. Since the problem is clearly a male problem how about if we just make it illegal for men to have guns. Women committing these heinous crimes are so rare it's safe to say the nation would be much safer if only women had access to guns.

You have a very convincing style of writing, very confident. I am truly impressed. I would love to have a country where only women could own guns because it is based on a STATISTICAL FACT - and would be a real solution - I would even vote for it if it was on a referendum bill. My opinion IS also based on a STATISTICAL FACT.......that we are an outlier amount all countries of the world and # 1 in mass murders and gun deaths. It JUST CAN'T be some COINCIDENCE that we ALSO have the MOST availability of guns in the world.
.........And I would also say that the genesis of the problem was when the Gun Manufacturers and their propaganda machine AKA the NRA decided that "GREED IS GOOD"..........around 1999

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

Jim, we are not talking about murderous zombies. We are talking about American citizens who, in the past 20 years, have gone on heinous shooting sprees targeting defenseless victims. The select gun free zones for maximum carnage. There is a very serious fault in their brain, not their trigger finger. It is very short sighted to think a cookie cutter approach will be effective, at any cost. That is your solution, at any cost restrict the Rights of hundreds of millions of people because of the actions of dozens. The leap you have to make to justify that is just bizarre.

I have a better solution. Since the problem is clearly a male problem how about if we just make it illegal for men to have guns. Women committing these heinous crimes are so rare it's safe to say the nation would be much safer if only women had access to guns.

And Sarah, I must confess that I thought murderous ZOMBIES was quite clever of me!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Djean1981

It's cultural. No God in schools and no daddy at home. Social media and device addiction. This is the result. Narcissists willing to kill for attention..

Gods and daddies sing the same sad song.

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

And Sarah, I must confess that I thought murderous ZOMBIES was quite clever of me!

Okay, I'll give you that one. I will also confess I've used the term Zombies to describe the population of Los Angeles when I lived 40 miles north.

America is not a perfect nation. None are. We are also an outlier for the freedom and the opportunities that we enjoy simply by birthright. Millions of people are very committed to coming to our country legally as well as illegally. Why, they are seeking opportunity that can't get in their home country.

We have complex problems that require complex solutions. There is no easy way to solve these mass shootings. We begin by truly trying to solve it rather than settling for knee jerk reactions that will not be successful nor sustainable.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Social media and and video games exist around the world. So, nope not the cause. And btw, correlation does not equal causation. There is NO, ZERO, ZIP evidence that either CAUSE mass shootings.

You’re opinion that’s it.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Any easily available comparisons of gun violence by world countries quickly show that the US is, BY FAR, the country with the biggest gun violence problem. WE are numero uno !

And Mexico don’t have fun violence problem