[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Actually read the article.

The article says exactly that...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

How is anyone going to clear out all the guns in the US? Cannot be done in any way, shape or form!

Let's get real here. Weapons designed for battlefields are being used to attack parades, movie theater audiences, schools, churches, banks, work locations, and other places here in the United States. There should be fewer ways for these to be purchased. There have been more shootings per day in the US in 2023 as there are days so far.

Repeating false information again and again does not magically make it correct...

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

You did not even bother reading the discussion which is about what the Founding Fathers meant by the 2nd Amendment which was not about individual rights but about a well regulated militia.

I did read the discussion. And I do not agree that you have posted the ultimate authority on this discussion.

The Founding Fathers felt that citizens should be able to protect themselves against the government and any other threat to their wellbeing or personal freedom. The Second Amendment granted citizens that right — giving them the ability to defend themselves and their property.

What Is The Second Amendment And How Is It Defined
NRA-ILA | What Is The Second Amendment And How Is It Defined.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

You make a lot of assertions with little evidence for them.

Pot, meet kettle...

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

What Does the 2nd Amendment Say? — Civics 101: A Podcast

I found this very interesting.

Well I found this even more interesting....and credible

The James Madison Research Library and Information Center

[Taltarzac725]

The rigours of frontier life would have required pretty much anyone there to be well armed which I assume the Founding Fathers would have known.

They were addressing militia pretty much in the 2nd Amendment and not people carrying arms as that would have been a given in many situations.

[Taltarzac725]

Second Amendment - Harvard Law Review

Worth a look if you are interested in how legal scholars are looking at the 2nd Amendment in 2023 and just prior to 2023.

How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment | Brennan Center for Justice

Corpus Linguistics and the Second Amendment - Harvard Law Review

Comprehensive Bibliography Of The Second Amendment in Law Reviews, by
David B. Kopel

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Second Amendment - Harvard Law Review

Worth a look if you are interested in how legal scholars are looking at the 2nd Amendment in 2023 and just prior to 2023.

How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment | Brennan Center for Justice

Corpus Linguistics and the Second Amendment - Harvard Law Review

Comprehensive Bibliography Of The Second Amendment in Law Reviews, by
David B. Kopel

Pardon me if I take the words of the founding fathers more seriously than that of current "scholars" in determining their intent. Here is but a small sampling.


"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith, son-in-law of John Adams, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

Pardon me if I take the words of the founding fathers more seriously than that of current "scholars" in determining their intent. Here is but a small sampling.


"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith, son-in-law of John Adams, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

It is the Supreme Court and lower courts that determine in 2023 what the Founding Fathers meant in the 2nd Amendment.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The rigours of frontier life would have required pretty much anyone there to be well armed which I assume the Founding Fathers would have known.

They were addressing militia pretty much in the 2nd Amendment and not people carrying arms as that would have been a given in many situations.

The Founding Fathers had a revolution to win and a government to establish. The exploits of Davey Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier, and other frontiersmen came later. The Founding Fathers and other colonists needed to be armed as individuals for their own protection as they and their families at times unfortunately had needed to engage in armed conflict not only with indigenous people but their own criminal element. The Founding Fathers therefore recognized individual citizens of the new country they were establishing needed the right to bear arms, thus the second amendment in 1791. Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

It is the Supreme Court and lower courts that determine in 2023 what the Founding Fathers meant in the 2nd Amendment.

Attempting to have an intellectual discussion with some people is so challenging.

You post the links to 4 different articles on what supposed scholars believe the founding fathers meant. Not one was to a court decision.

I post the text of what the founding fathers actually said, and say I take the word of them, over what supposed scholars say they meant. You have nothing to refute their words, so you reply that it is the courts that will decide what they meant.

Then why did you post worthless links to commentaries other than the courts?

And I don't disagree that the courts will decide, but that does not mean they will be correct. We just have to accept their decisions, correct or not. At least until we get the opportunity to correct any errors they made, e.g Plessy vs Ferguson and Roe V. Wade.

[Bwanajim]

Exactly!!

[Bwanajim]

Could you please define exactly what a “assault weapon” is and how it’s different than other firearms??

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

It is the Supreme Court and lower courts that determine in 2023 what the Founding Fathers meant in the 2nd Amendment.

The same courts mandating the catch and release of criminals so they can go on and commit more crimes? That terrifies me!

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

Attempting to have an intellectual discussion with some people is so challenging.

You post the links to 4 different articles on what supposed scholars believe the founding fathers meant. Not one was to a court decision.

I post the text of what the founding fathers actually said, and say I take the word of them, over what supposed scholars say they meant. You have nothing to refute their words, so you reply that it is the courts that will decide what they meant.

Then why did you post worthless links to commentaries other than the courts?

And I don't disagree that the courts will decide, but that does not mean they will be correct. We just have to accept their decisions, correct or not. At least until we get the opportunity to correct any errors they made, e.g Plessy vs Ferguson and Roe V. Wade.

And your quotes look like something pointed out by the NRA recently.