[Joe C.]

Complicated issue ??

IMHO, if you were born with a *****, you are MALE.
If not, then you are FEMALE.
If you are male and "feel" that you are female or vice versa, then it's a mental/emotional issue.
Too bad. You are WHAT you are.
If you were born with both genitalia, then you have a physiological issue, and this is the true issue of transgenderism. THAT is the issue that must be focused on.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'm saying it has to go both ways, and the wording of the laws is unfair and discriminatory. It's saying that transgender WOMEN - only - should not be allowed to join women-only teams. It says nothing about transgender MEN not being allowed to join men-only teams.

If you want to say "transgender people should not be able to join cis-gender teams, but we will have mixed teams and/or transgender-only teams" then that's fine. But singling out transgender women is - discriminatory. By definition.

Regardless of WHY. I even agree with the sentiment. But it's a sticky wicket - what about natural born hermaphrodites? There are humans born with both male and female gonads, raised as male, but not exclusively male. They are also female. Which team would THEY play on? Or should they be excluded from playing on ANY team?

There are also intersex folks - they have a p..e.n..is (can't use a normal scientific word on a forum whose membership is comprised of adults - that's just so pathetic), but they also have ovaries. Or they might have a v.a..gin-a (again) but the musculature and hormones of a man. Or other odd mutations of the reproductive system that makes them neither male, nor female, but a little of both. Which team do THEY get to play on? Or should they also be excluded from playing on ANY team?

This is why it's an issue. Not because these folks want to play "as male/female" on a team. But because - their physiology puts them in an awkward position. They want to play sports. There's no reason to deprive them of the opportunity to play sports. But where do you put them? ALL of them. Not just the trans-women.

I’m well aware of the different sex anomalies and I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to comprehend a separate classification for these individuals. If it feels discriminatory, then discriminate with biological female and biological male teams.

Hermaphrodites normally receive hormone therapy from a young age after a sex has been selected and mature accordingly. As I said, rather than ruin biological female sports, a new classification is needed for those with sexual anomalies so they can compete with comparable individuals.

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

It has been announced that transgender women are banned from running in the 2024 Olympics against women. Some transgender comments about denying them the opportunity to participate. They are not being denied the opportunity. They just have to compete against people of their biological sex. Kind of like letting a heavyweight average boxer compete against a lightweight boxer. XY against XY, not XY against XX. Sports events are looking for the best, not the best imposter. If an XX wants to compete against an XY, let it happen, If a lightweight wants to compete against a heavyweight, let it happen. Go up to your best not down to your best.

We have a Special Olympics. Why not have a Transgender Olympics? Makes sense to me. Then everyone should be happy.

[Fltpkr]

"It's called abnormal behavior. A mental condition that should be addressed, not encouraged." How many human lives have been made and will be made miserable by that type of thinking?

[Bill14564]

/// misunderstood the point of the comment I was replying to ///

[Johnsocat]

As a woman who served 24 years in the military, I am grateful for the opportunities made available to me by the women (and men) who have fought for women's rights.
It angers me that men are now claiming those rights and protections, which diminishes and negates what those ancestors fought so hard for.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Given that females are going to lose scholarships to trans females, one would think the vast majority of real females would be rather upset as to where this is going.

One would think that...

But, so many have been brainwashed into believing that being upset at that makes you "phobic"...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'm saying it has to go both ways, and the wording of the laws is unfair and discriminatory. It's saying that transgender WOMEN - only - should not be allowed to join women-only teams. It says nothing about transgender MEN not being allowed to join men-only teams.

If you want to say "transgender people should not be able to join cis-gender teams, but we will have mixed teams and/or transgender-only teams" then that's fine. But singling out transgender women is - discriminatory. By definition.

Regardless of WHY. I even agree with the sentiment. But it's a sticky wicket - what about natural born hermaphrodites? There are humans born with both male and female gonads, raised as male, but not exclusively male. They are also female. Which team would THEY play on? Or should they be excluded from playing on ANY team?

There are also intersex folks - they have a p..e.n..is (can't use a normal scientific word on a forum whose membership is comprised of adults - that's just so pathetic), but they also have ovaries. Or they might have a v.a..gin-a (again) but the musculature and hormones of a man. Or other odd mutations of the reproductive system that makes them neither male, nor female, but a little of both. Which team do THEY get to play on? Or should they also be excluded from playing on ANY team?

This is why it's an issue. Not because these folks want to play "as male/female" on a team. But because - their physiology puts them in an awkward position. They want to play sports. There's no reason to deprive them of the opportunity to play sports. But where do you put them? ALL of them. Not just the trans-women.

Trans men don't compete with cis men because they know they will lose. Plain and simple...

And please, yes we all know about the EXTREMELY RARE cases of genetic mutations during gestation, resulting in intersex individuals. But that discussion is nothing but a red herring... Nice try.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by nn0wheremann

In 72 years I have made the acquaintance of three transgender people. There are not so many of them in the world as to justify all the concern and hot air expended over them.

Except that recent polls have shown that 25% of HS students now identify as LGBT(etc). It seems to be a new trend... Personally, I think it's due to social media...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

This whole matter only applies to men who have had a sex change running against women in the Summer Olympics.
World Rankings | Women's Overall Ranking

I would bet most men runners would have a hard time competing with these women unless they had the same kind of training, commitment to their sport and experience.

There is no "requirement" for anyone to have had a "sex change". And that is part of the problem.

And you think that "most men runners would have a hard time competing with these women unless they had the same kind of training, commitment to their sport and experience."? Well, no kidding! Of course you need training to run competitively at ANY level... But that has NOTHING to do with the conversation...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Isn't it the case today that women can try out for men's teams? Less likely to succeed due to the difference in body structure but still allowed? At the same time, it isn't the case that men can try out for women's teams, right?

The discrimination you point out is in place today - we call it protecting women's sports.

What happens in someone's brain, the gender that feels comfortable to them or the sex of those they feel attracted to, doesn't determine their physical characteristics. It is the physical characteristics of a biological male that makes it harmful to allow them to compete in a women's sport. That seems to me to be a pretty fair dividing line.

Handle other edge cases as they come up. Today, the issue is trans-women. Today, biological women are being harmed when biological men are allowed to compete in women's sports. Solve today's problem today.

Prezactly! I can only think of a handful of women who tried to compete with men. They all failed...

Annika Sorenstam
Michelle Wei
Babe Didrikson Zaharias and a few others...

Women Playing Men in Golf

And then, there are these women... NONE of them played close to a top tier level...

Meet The Trailblazing Female Athletes Competing With Men - Worldcrunch

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Except that recent polls have shown that 25% of HS students now identify as LGBT(etc). It seems to be a new trend... Personally, I think it's due to social media...

Oh, puhleese — that is a ridiculous statement……

Please cite your source.

Boomer

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Oh, puhleese — that is a ridiculous statement……

Please cite your source.

Boomer

(deleted text copied from an article to avoid getting TOTV in trouble)

Scary, isn't it?

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

It has been announced that transgender women are banned from running in the 2024 Olympics against women. Some transgender comments about denying them the opportunity to participate. They are not being denied the opportunity. They just have to compete against people of their biological sex. Kind of like letting a heavyweight average boxer compete against a lightweight boxer. XY against XY, not XY against XX. Sports events are looking for the best, not the best imposter. If an XX wants to compete against an XY, let it happen, If a lightweight wants to compete against a heavyweight, let it happen. Go up to your best not down to your best.

This is the topic and not transgenders competing in all sports. A woman who used to be a man can run in the Paris 2024 Olympics with the men. And what would seem fairer is just exactly are this contestant's abilities? Maybe they are slower than all the men?

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Oh, puhleese — that is a ridiculous statement……

Please cite your source.

Boomer

2 posts in the discussion. 1 calling an easily verifiable factual statement ridiculous and the other calling people who are trying to stand up to protect women as vile.

Quite the record....