[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

I'm not trying to cook the books; rather, I posted a CDC reference to illustrate that the actual deaths due to Covid may be reported inaccurately.

If so, why?
________
I was not suggesting you personaly were cooking the books.

I think the answer is, it's election year, and each side of the political divide is trying to make the numbers come out to suit an agenda.

CDC has traditionally been free of interference. Only one can influence the data in any election period.

A once proud organization is now considered part of a process.

I haven't researched any of the deaths from covid-19 so I'm only sharing the 3 deaths from covid-19 that I know of personally. In all 3 cases of covid-19 the death certificate stated the cause of death was covid-19.
1. A middle aged white male died from a motorcycle accident.
2. A young adult white male committed suicide.
3. A retired white male died from a heartattack.

These 3 people where not my friend and I can only say the sources that did know them are friends I've had for decades.

In all 3 deaths the family said they didn't want the death certificate to say covid-19 was the cause of death. In all 3 cases the person had no symptoms of covid-19 and the family was surprised at the findings.

My current gut feeling is that if the flu could kill you because you're already unhealthy then you should take measures to protect yourself at the highest level you're willing to put up with. Otherwise, if you're healthy and rarely get a cold you're probably ok to follow the CDC guidelines. Wear a mask indoors, wash your hands before touching your face etc, etc.

As the data comes in I'm willing to change my mind.

[biker1]

I believe the most meaningful statistic is incremental deaths (over the baseline number of deaths). I think the numbers are now becoming available. By this I mean "how many additional people are dying each month above the normal pre-covid number". For example, about 7800 people die each day on average in the US from all causes. How much has this number increased? If you look at the incremental deaths you don't have to be concerned with how the deaths are recorded. Any increase is due to COVID-19 regardless of whether they die directly from COVID-19 or from a heart attack because they were afraid to seek medical care because of COVID-19 fears. I believe the number will eventually be about 5% additional deaths on average (over the pre-COVID-19 baseline). In other words, instead of 7800 people dying per day on average, we will see about 8200 people dying per day.

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

I haven't researched any of the deaths from covid-19 so I'm only sharing the 3 deaths from covid-19 that I know of personally. In all 3 cases of covid-19 the death certificate stated the cause of death was covid-19.
1. A middle aged white male died from a motorcycle accident.
2. A young adult white male committed suicide.
3. A retired white male died from a heartattack.

These 3 people where not my friend and I can only say the sources that did know them are friends I've had for decades.

In all 3 deaths the family said they didn't want the death certificate to say covid-19 was the cause of death. In all 3 cases the person had no symptoms of covid-19 and the family was surprised at the findings.

My current gut feeling is that if the flu could kill you because you're already unhealthy then you should take measures to protect yourself at the highest level you're willing to put up with. Otherwise, if you're healthy and rarely get a cold you're probably ok to follow the CDC guidelines. Wear a mask indoors, wash your hands before touching your face etc, etc.

As the data comes in I'm willing to change my mind.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by biker1

I believe the most meaningful statistic is incremental deaths (over the baseline number of deaths). I think the numbers are now becoming available. By this I mean "how many additional people are dying each month above the normal pre-covid number". For example, about 7800 people die each day on average in the US from all causes. How much has this number increased? If you look at the incremental deaths you don't have to be concerned with how the deaths are recorded. Any increase is due to COVID-19 regardless of whether they die directly from COVID-19 or from a heart attack because they were afraid to seek medical care because of COVID-19 fears. I believe the number will eventually be about 5% additional deaths on average (over the pre-COVID-19 baseline). In other words, instead of 7800 people dying per day on average, we will see about 8200 people dying per day.

And 80% of those deaths that are more than "usual" will be over 70 years of age.

And a recent update from Dr. Fauci.

Fauci debunks theories of low CDC coronavirus death toll: 'There are 180,000-plus deaths' in U.S.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

And 80% of those deaths that are more than "usual" will be over 70 years of age.

And a recent update from Dr. Fauci.

Fauci debunks theories of low CDC coronavirus death toll: 'There are 180,000-plus deaths' in U.S.

Sad, isn't it, that in this country which always had a clear message, now is in chaos over even this.

[davem4616]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Used to be you could simply trust the United States Government.

How time flies

and there was a time that we could also trust the national news outlets...but no more

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

And 80% of those deaths that are more than "usual" will be over 70 years of age.

And a recent update from Dr. Fauci.

Fauci debunks theories of low CDC coronavirus death toll: 'There are 180,000-plus deaths' in U.S.

"So the numbers you've been hearing, the 180,000-plus deaths, are real deaths from COVID-19," Fauci decisively said. "Let there not be any confusion about that."

I trust Fauci. No, he didn't get everything correct at the beginning (no one did), but he's willing to admit his past mistakes and has continuously followed the science as we learn more, to keep us citizens informed. The same can't be said for others.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by davem4616

and there was a time that we could also trust the national news outlets...but no more

I trust the United States free press, and I accent the free press.

They may not report what you want to read, but they do report.

The mantra tearing apart our free and independent pressis really becoming tiresome.

Our government in one single day,on more than one occasion, has criticized, accused and maligned any part, and on the same day repeat what they say.

DIFFERENCE....one was news they liked...the other not so good.

Great logic then to attack them all.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by jacksonbrown

The CDC silently updated their numbers this week to show that only 6% of all coronavirus deaths were completely due to the coronavirus alone. The rest of the deaths pinned to the coronavirus are attributed to individuals who had other serious issues going on.

See here, page 2 of 2, bottom right of the Microsoft Power BI generated chart.

Or, read this article.

Untrue, debunked, and here's the link to the debunking with links to every source cited within it:

CDC Did Not 'Admit Only 6%' of Recorded Deaths from COVID-19 - FactCheck.org

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Since it was impossible to sell the idea that we test too much to most people, the new “discovery” is that the Covid tests are too sensitive:

“On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing.

One solution would be to adjust the cycle threshold used to decide that a patient is infected. Most tests set the limit at 40, a few at 37. This means that you are positive for the coronavirus if the test process required up to 40 cycles, or 37, to detect the virus.” Honolulu Star Advertiser

So that 17,000 cases we had in Florida a little while ago was probably only 1,700 if we look at it this new way.

I’m betting by October we should be approaching 0 by definition, whether or not we have a vaccine.

aprox. Nov 5th, imo

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I trust the United States free press, and I accent the free press.

They may not report what you want to read, but they do report.

The mantra tearing apart our free and independent pressis really becoming tiresome.

Our government in one single day,on more than one occasion, has criticized, accused and maligned any part, and on the same day repeat what they say.

DIFFERENCE....one was news they liked...the other not so good.

Great logic then to attack them all.

polls on trust in media 2020 - Bing

[chet2020]

Almost all deaths have comorbidities playing a role in cause of death (outside of trauma cases). However, if I have diabetes, and I catch COVID-19, and I die of complications partially due to my diabetes, my ultimate cause of death was COVID-19. However, I would not show up in the 6% of deaths caused ONLY by COVID-19. The head of the CDC is a political appointee, so draw your own conclusions on why they changed reporting guidelines just now. And BTW, if you are the picture of health with absolutely no underlying conditions, that 6% number would not be good news.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

polls on trust in media 2020 - Bing

Are you referencing the Fox News poll on your link ?

Or was it the Washington Free Beacon ?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Are you referencing the Fox News poll on your link ?

Or was it the Washington Free Beacon ?

I actually clicked on her link. Apparently she is referencing 54,200,000 Results.

This, according to the link itself.

In other words - another "search results" link that doesn't mean anything at all.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I actually clicked on her link. Apparently she is referencing 54,200,000 Results.

This, according to the link itself.

In other words - another "search results" link that doesn't mean anything at all.

Bing is the search engine from MSN. I brought up lots of information that appears to come to similar conclusions, no matter from what news network, source or wire.

Most Americans believe that the media is not trustworthy. Well over half of Americans believe that.

I invite you to use the search engine of your choice. The same conclusions will be found.