[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Variants occur when there are hosts for the virus, not because of vaccinated people. This guy made a prediction that Americans would not get on the vaccine bandwagon, therefore providing this virus with LOTS of hosts. THAT is what has cause these variants, NOT vaccinated people. Sheesh.

I totally disagree with the guy but I think the point is being misrepresented. If you are vaccinated against say the original virus. Then, your immune system will kill clones of the original virus, and any variants that are similar. That is what it is supposed to do.

So, what happens if there is a mutation, in your body, that your immune system doesn't recognize? Well, it will not get killed.

The problem is what happens next. I don't know. I am not an expert.

But, think about this.

Every year most (many?) people get influenza vaccinations. So, why are we not all dead from mutated mega influenza viruses resulting from being vaccinated?

Every year millions of children get vaccinated against various viruses. Why aren't we all dead from polio, chickenpox, etc. as a result of a mega monster mutating because of the vaccinations?

So, who do we believe, a Vet that says our entire immune system has been destroyed if we got vaccinated (which means EVERYONE that has been vaccinated will soon be DEAD - you can't live without an immune system outside of a sterile bubble).

Or scientists that have worked their entire lives in this field, and have minor achievements like eradicating polio, chickenpox, measle, et al.

Inquiring minds want to know...

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I totally disagree with the guy but I think the point is being misrepresented. If you are vaccinated against say the original virus. Then, your immune system will kill clones of the original virus, and any variants that are similar. That is what it is supposed to do.

So, what happens if there is a mutation, in your body, that your immune system doesn't recognize? Well, it will not get killed.

The problem is what happens next. I don't know. I am not an expert.

But, think about this.

Every year most (many?) people get influenza vaccinations. So, why are we not all dead from mutated mega influenza viruses resulting from being vaccinated?

Every year millions of children get vaccinated against various viruses. Why aren't we all dead from polio, chickenpox, etc. as a result of a mega monster mutating because of the vaccinations?

So, who do we believe, a Vet that says our entire immune system has been destroyed if we got vaccinated (which means EVERYONE that has been vaccinated will soon be DEAD - you can't live without an immune system outside of a sterile bubble).

Or scientists that have worked their entire lives in this field, and have minor achievements like eradicating polio, chickenpox, measle, et al.

Inquiring minds want to know...

Because maybe much is still unknown about this virus because it was made in a lab? That's why a traditional vaccine couldn't be created for it so they had to go the experimental route and take some chances. Maybe the virus won't behave in the same way a virus from a naturally occurring source would?

Actually, no maybes about it. Those are actual reasons why.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Because maybe much is still unknown about this virus because it was made in a lab? That's why a traditional vaccine couldn't be created for it so they had to go the experimental route and take some chances. Maybe the virus won't behave in the same way a virus from a naturally occurring source would?

Actually, no maybes about it. Those are actual reasons why.

Any proof, I don't think so. But, sure go for it, if that makes you feel good.

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I totally disagree with the guy but I think the point is being misrepresented. If you are vaccinated against say the original virus. Then, your immune system will kill clones of the original virus, and any variants that are similar. That is what it is supposed to do.

So, what happens if there is a mutation, in your body, that your immune system doesn't recognize? Well, it will not get killed.

The problem is what happens next. I don't know. I am not an expert.

But, think about this.

Every year most (many?) people get influenza vaccinations. So, why are we not all dead from mutated mega influenza viruses resulting from being vaccinated?

Every year millions of children get vaccinated against various viruses. Why aren't we all dead from polio, chickenpox, etc. as a result of a mega monster mutating because of the vaccinations?

So, who do we believe, a Vet that says our entire immune system has been destroyed if we got vaccinated (which means EVERYONE that has been vaccinated will soon be DEAD - you can't live without an immune system outside of a sterile bubble).

Or scientists that have worked their entire lives in this field, and have minor achievements like eradicating polio, chickenpox, measle, et al.

Inquiring minds want to know...

I guess it really doesn't matter what happens next because as of tonight FL is at over 21,000 new cases today, up from 17,000 yesterday. Regardless what DeSantis says, Disney is asking people to mask, and making employees get the vac in order to work.... same with SeaWorld and just about all the major family fun spots in that area.
So thank God, even with all the whiners that say the government can't make me do it...
The people/business's have spoken...you do the right thing....or get out.....FINALLY!!!!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

I guess it really doesn't matter what happens next because as of tonight FL is at over 21,000 new cases today, up from 17,000 yesterday. Regardless what DeSantis says, Disney is asking people to mask, and making employees get the vac in order to work.... same with SeaWorld and just about all the major family fun spots in that area.
So thank God, even with all the whiners that say the government can't make me do it...
The people/business's have spoken...you do the right thing....or get out.....FINALLY!!!!

Sadly, viruses grow at exponential rates, without intervention we will be back where we were six months ago soon. At some point all this BS being spewed will stop being free speech and start being "yelling fire in a theater". People are dying, at least partially because of the massive misinformation.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

I guess it really doesn't matter what happens next because as of tonight FL is at over 21,000 new cases today, up from 17,000 yesterday. Regardless what DeSantis says, Disney is asking people to mask, and making employees get the vac in order to work.... same with SeaWorld and just about all the major family fun spots in that area.
So thank God, even with all the whiners that say the government can't make me do it...
The people/business's have spoken...you do the right thing....or get out.....FINALLY!!!!

I don't know if they should tell their workers to get lost. It's hard to get low-wage employees nowadays. Maybe they should offer incentives and bonuses instead.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by drducat

Have you ever used an N95....pretty hard to breath if your moving around much.

I’ve always used N95 masks and the secret is good fit and comfort. Just tight enough. The materials used in N95 can vary too. That makes a difference in breathability. I came out of a store and waited for a friend outside. I noticed a few people looked at me. Then I realized I still had the mask on. I’m so used to it, I forgot.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Maybe they should offer incentives and bonuses instead.

That would never work, they need to compete with the government....more incentives not to work ya know.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by stanley

That would never work, they need to compete with the government....more incentives not to work ya know.

it seems you are pretty much against anything and everything anyone suggests. What do you propose is a way forward?

[stanley]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

it seems you are pretty much against anything and everything anyone suggests. What do you propose is a way forward?

Please provide proof that I'm "against anything and everything anyone suggests".
You don't know me to paint me with such a broad brush.

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Any proof, I don't think so. But, sure go for it, if that makes you feel good.

Actually, if you understand how gain of function research has occurred in the past, you would know that they insert a polybasic furin cleavage site into a virus. They do this so that a protease can come along and snip the receptor binding domain off the viral genome which allows the viral payload to be inserted into the cell.

There are 13 documented occurrences of this on various other viruses.

They used a polybasic furin cleavage site with a proline, two arginines and an Alanine. PRRA.

PRRA has high affinity for human tissues which is why it is a good insert for gain of function.

PRRA is not found in animal models like bats, pangolins or most of everything that isn't humanized because their systems don't code for a protease like humans do.

There are no bat ancestor genomes with a polybasic furin cleavage site with PRRA. In fact, that probably would not occur in nature because it would make it harder for the virus to propagate in bat tissues.

Sars-Cov2 has a polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA. Is that proof it came from a lab? without someone admitting they did that, no, not exactly. It's a smoking gun though.

It is the exact sequence used in gain of function. We know bat genomes were used at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. We know the Bat lady, Shi was using that exact sequence in gain of function research.

When you are in North America and you hear hoofbeats, you don't think zebras.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Any proof, I don't think so. But, sure go for it, if that makes you feel good.

Swine Flu (H1N1) was declared a pandemic in the spring of 2009. By December of that year they had developed a traditional vaccine and were starting to administer it. That's because Swine Flu was related to other flus that humans get. It had the same components. Not so with COVID. They had to try something new. They're still figuring it out and you can see that in the CDC's backtracking, contradictions, corrections, and do-overs for the past year.

All this new study has done is create more uncertainty, confusion and distrust. Now the unvaccinated think, "why bother getting vaccinated if my old auntie is fully vaxxed and still got it anyway?"

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by stanley

Please provide proof that I'm "against anything and everything anyone suggests".
You don't know me to paint me with such a broad brush.

Just my opinion based on what I read you post. I don't recall very many positive posts. And I said, "pretty much", you left off the qualifier, making it sound worse, again a more negative connotation of what I said.

But, just my opinion, and you are right I don't know you at all, so I can only speak to what I read here. You could be the most positive upbeat person in TV as far as I know.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Swine Flu (H1N1) was declared a pandemic in the spring of 2009. By December of that year they had developed a traditional vaccine and were starting to administer it. That's because Swine Flu was related to other flus that humans get. It had the same components. Not so with COVID. They had to try something new. They're still figuring it out and you can see that in the CDC's backtracking, contradictions, corrections, and do-overs for the past year.

All this new study has done is create more uncertainty, confusion and distrust. Now the unvaccinated think, "why bother getting vaccinated if my old auntie is fully vaxxed and still got it anyway?"

You realize every thing you just wrote is supposition on your part.

I will still trust the experts that actually work in the field of pandemics (on humans) over some stranger on the internet that says every one of the experts is wrong.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

You realize every thing you just wrote is supposition on your part.

I will still trust the experts that actually work in the field of pandemics (on humans) over some stranger on the internet that says every one of the experts is wrong.

What is the "supposition" on what was posted about H1N1?