[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by stanley

Please provide proof that I'm "against anything and everything anyone suggests".
You don't know me to paint me with such a broad brush.

Please provide proof that he doesn't know you to paint you with such a broad brush.
Please provide proof that he wants to paint you at all.
Please provide proof that he has a brush.

Your turn.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Swine Flu (H1N1) was declared a pandemic in the spring of 2009. By December of that year they had developed a traditional vaccine and were starting to administer it. That's because Swine Flu was related to other flus that humans get. It had the same components. Not so with COVID. They had to try something new. They're still figuring it out and you can see that in the CDC's backtracking, contradictions, corrections, and do-overs for the past year.

All this new study has done is create more uncertainty, confusion and distrust. Now the unvaccinated think, "why bother getting vaccinated if my old auntie is fully vaxxed and still got it anyway?"

Covid is not an influenza virus. "Flu" is short for "influenza virus." COVID-19 is short for "COronaVIrus Disease."

The veterinarian who wrote his treatise warning against the vaccine - if you were actually paying attention around the time that was written - was mostly referring to the concept that in order for a vaccine against COVID-19 to be effective, MOST people need to be vaccinated. There was no way to develop, AND test, AND manufacture, AND distribute a vaccine for COVID-19 in time for "most" people to be immunized.

That meant the virus would have had a LOT of time to mutate.

He was absolutely spot-on right, in that. But it wasn't because people COULDN'T vaccinate in time. It's because they CHOSE not to vaccinate in time.

The warnings were coming from everywhere - you get vaccinated as soon as you are eligible, as soon as the vaccine is available to you. If you don't, the virus can mutate.

Too many people said "screw that, I'll take my chances." And the virus did EXACTLY as predicted: it mutated.

If people took the "herd immunity" concept more seriously THEN, the virus wouldn't have had the opportunity to mutate NOW.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Covid is not an influenza virus. "Flu" is short for "influenza virus." COVID-19 is short for "COronaVIrus Disease."

The veterinarian who wrote his treatise warning against the vaccine - if you were actually paying attention around the time that was written - was mostly referring to the concept that in order for a vaccine against COVID-19 to be effective, MOST people need to be vaccinated. There was no way to develop, AND test, AND manufacture, AND distribute a vaccine for COVID-19 in time for "most" people to be immunized.

That meant the virus would have had a LOT of time to mutate.

He was absolutely spot-on right, in that. But it wasn't because people COULDN'T vaccinate in time. It's because they CHOSE not to vaccinate in time.

The warnings were coming from everywhere - you get vaccinated as soon as you are eligible, as soon as the vaccine is available to you. If you don't, the virus can mutate.

Too many people said "screw that, I'll take my chances." And the virus did EXACTLY as predicted: it mutated.

If people took the "herd immunity" concept more seriously THEN, the virus wouldn't have had the opportunity to mutate NOW.

Thank you, too bad it won't matter.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Covid is not an influenza virus. "Flu" is short for "influenza virus." COVID-19 is short for "COronaVIrus Disease."

The veterinarian who wrote his treatise warning against the vaccine - if you were actually paying attention around the time that was written - was mostly referring to the concept that in order for a vaccine against COVID-19 to be effective, MOST people need to be vaccinated. There was no way to develop, AND test, AND manufacture, AND distribute a vaccine for COVID-19 in time for "most" people to be immunized.

That meant the virus would have had a LOT of time to mutate.

He was absolutely spot-on right, in that. But it wasn't because people COULDN'T vaccinate in time. It's because they CHOSE not to vaccinate in time.

The warnings were coming from everywhere - you get vaccinated as soon as you are eligible, as soon as the vaccine is available to you. If you don't, the virus can mutate.

Too many people said "screw that, I'll take my chances." And the virus did EXACTLY as predicted: it mutated.

If people took the "herd immunity" concept more seriously THEN, the virus wouldn't have had the opportunity to mutate NOW.

The common cold is also a coronavirus but I get your meaning. The way I understood his theory was that because the vaccine was specific to the spike protein in COVID the body's immune response would be vulnerable to not only the variants but other illnesses because the COVID vaccine is so powerful it overwhelms everything else. I don't think we've seen that yet, however, we aren't in cold and flu season.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

The common cold is also a coronavirus but I get your meaning. The way I understood his theory was that because the vaccine was specific to the spike protein in COVID the body's immune response would be vulnerable to not only the variants but other illnesses because the COVID vaccine is so powerful it overwhelms everything else. I don't think we've seen that yet, however, we aren't in cold and flu season.

The whole spike protein thing is overblown, and has been used as a political anti-vax conspiracy to cast blame and deflect. While I don't really understand about spike proteins, I do understand about checking out information sources. If credentialed, known, experienced, published, peer-reviewed, immunologists, virologists, research scientists who are respected *by their peers* all say "yeah that thing you heard? It's just more fox news nonsense" then I'm going to believe them, before I believe Tucker Carlson.

And by "by their peers" I am intentionally excluding people whose opinions of those scientists have no relevance. What a Tucker or Hannity or whoever is on CNN or main-stream-media or some alt-right or anarchy conspiracy website or Dr. Oz or even our President feels about a scientist is not relevant. I don't care about their feelings about science. I care about the respected opinions of respected scientists, about other respected scientists.

In other words, I believe in science, not editorials.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by Malsua

Actually, if you understand how gain of function research has occurred in the past, you would know that they insert a polybasic furin cleavage site into a virus. They do this so that a protease can come along and snip the receptor binding domain off the viral genome which allows the viral payload to be inserted into the cell.

There are 13 documented occurrences of this on various other viruses.

They used a polybasic furin cleavage site with a proline, two arginines and an Alanine. PRRA.

PRRA has high affinity for human tissues which is why it is a good insert for gain of function.

PRRA is not found in animal models like bats, pangolins or most of everything that isn't humanized because their systems don't code for a protease like humans do.

There are no bat ancestor genomes with a polybasic furin cleavage site with PRRA. In fact, that probably would not occur in nature because it would make it harder for the virus to propagate in bat tissues.

Sars-Cov2 has a polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA. Is that proof it came from a lab? without someone admitting they did that, no, not exactly. It's a smoking gun though.

It is the exact sequence used in gain of function. We know bat genomes were used at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. We know the Bat lady, Shi was using that exact sequence in gain of function research.

When you are in North America and you hear hoofbeats, you don't think zebras.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject. As you probably know, Sars-Cov1 did have an animal intermediary, as did MERS. They've never found the animal this time even though the Chinese claimed they had only to be refuted and exposed by other scientists. The genome sequence needs to be almost as exact match and the closest they ever got was 96%.

The Chinese were present when they did the gain of function research at Univ. of North Carolina lab where they successfully infected HeLa cells (human cells) with horseshoe bat coronavirus. So the Chinese just continued on with it in Wuhan, along with other bioweapons research. Although virus escapes have happened, this was no accident. Not with the timing of it and then the elaborate cover up and lies by the Chinese. As late as mid-January, at least two months after the first COVID case, knowing full well what was happening in their country they still permitted travel abroad.

Nice "business partners", eh?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Round and round we go... back to bioweapons

[stanley]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Please provide proof that he doesn't know you to paint you with such a broad brush.
Please provide proof that he wants to paint you at all.
Please provide proof that he has a brush.

Your turn.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I see we hit a new record in Florida - 21,000 cases.

For those that like to use common sense, what does getting a record number of cases while performing half as many tests imply? (We are down from 90,000 tests to 48,000 tests per day)

[GrumpyOldMan]

The seven-day average Vaccines administered are up 26% over the past 3 weeks, according to headlines today. Some states are over double in the past three weeks.

This is good news.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I see we hit a new record in Florida - 21,000 cases.

For those that like to use common sense, what does getting a record number of cases while performing half as many tests imply? (We are down from 90,000 tests to 48,000 tests per day)

Looks like we will be reaching herd immunity quicker…

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Looks like we will be reaching herd immunity quicker…

Too bad so many will need to die to get there, that way.

The other news is vaccination rate is up, people are taking action and getting vaccinations, so you may be right.

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

You seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject. As you probably know, Sars-Cov1 did have an animal intermediary, as did MERS. They've never found the animal this time even though the Chinese claimed they had only to be refuted and exposed by other scientists. The genome sequence needs to be almost as exact match and the closest they ever got was 96%.

The Chinese were present when they did the gain of function research at Univ. of North Carolina lab where they successfully infected HeLa cells (human cells) with horseshoe bat coronavirus. So the Chinese just continued on with it in Wuhan, along with other bioweapons research. Although virus escapes have happened, this was no accident. Not with the timing of it and then the elaborate cover up and lies by the Chinese. As late as mid-January, at least two months after the first COVID case, knowing full well what was happening in their country they still permitted travel abroad.

Nice "business partners", eh?

Hanlon's razor is appropriate here. "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

I think of the leak as stupidity and poor controls.

I think the coverup was malice. Not stopping international flights out of Wuhan, but stopping domestic flights? Malice. Taking the viral database offline? Malice. Lying to the WHO, Malice. Showing videos of people falling over in the street? Malice. etc.

They knew exactly where this came from and who did it and have spared no lives in making sure no one else figures it out. The problem with that is the genome is hard science. You can't fudge it, it's testable out of their control.

Now that it's passed to animals, they will probably deflect and suggest that the animal reservoirs were the source, rather than the other way around. White tail deer in Michigan? I read an article on that yesterday but I haven't run it down.

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Because maybe much is still unknown about this virus because it was made in a lab? That's why a traditional vaccine couldn't be created for it so they had to go the experimental route and take some chances. Maybe the virus won't behave in the same way a virus from a naturally occurring source would?

Actually, no maybes about it. Those are actual reasons why.

This virus was created in a lab using gain of function research funded by Fauci so its going be problematic. Fortunately there is a new technology being developed by last years Nobel prize winner and others that will be able to bypass the immune system antibody method and destroy the DNA of the virus directly.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I see we hit a new record in Florida - 21,000 cases.

For those that like to use common sense, what does getting a record number of cases while performing half as many tests imply? (We are down from 90,000 tests to 48,000 tests per day)

They have been traced to people traveling back and forth from the Miami area to South America where Delta and the two new variants are from. This is the same region the 1 million illegal aliens have come from, unmasked and unvaxxed and ignored by some for PC reasons.