[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Not exactly.

Some calculate an equivalent cost per gallon like this:
- A typical EV gets 4 miles per kWH
- One kWH might cost 12 cents
- That make about 3 cents per mile for the "fuel" for the electric vehicle
- A typical gasoline car gets 30 mpg
- At 4 cents per mile and 30 mpg you get an equivalent cost per gallon of $1.21 for the electric vehicle (if gas was $1.21/gallon then the 30mpg car and the EV would have the same cost per mile)
- The article uses this number

The article says that the cost of electricity isn't the only cost. It claims the price of an EV is subsidized in many ways like Federal tax rebates, not paying gas taxes, not paying for the electric company to build a bigger infrastructure, and even penalties imposed on car manufacturers. The article says that when you add all these up they show that your EV is receiving $48K of free benefits. Rather than claiming the EV should cost $48K more, the article computes an equivalent cost per gallon of $17.33.

No one is paying $17.33 for gas.
No one is paying $17.33 for electricity.
In fact, no one is paying the $48K the article calculates.
The article just attributes this cost to the EV in order to come up with a scary number.

Good job article used US price for electricity.
In UK our price is around 41 cents a kWH

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Good job article used US price for electricity.
In UK our price is around 41 cents a kWH

Ouch! If I remember correctly your gasoline is also more expensive but not by a factor of four (not $12/gal), right? So the savings in fuel would not be as great for you.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Sophistic. The article quoted is referring to how heat damages batteries by evaporating the electrolyte. However EV batteries don't contain liquid electrolyte:

EV batteries degrade faster in hot weather: What owners can do.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

EV batteries degrade faster in hot weather: What owners can do.

That’s why I always store the batteries for our power tools and e bikes inside the house during the hotter months when they aren’t being used. I figure either way, if they start on fire the house is cooked regardless of whether the fire starts in the garage or a spare bedroom and they are less likely to combust if kept cool.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Justputt

As electric vehicles become more common, experts worry they could pose a safety risk for other drivers - CBS News
As heavy EVs proliferate, their weight may be a drag on safety

One factor that this study FAILED to acknowledge is that although the EV is heavier than an equivalent ICE vehicle, the EV has a LOWER center of gravity, which allows the EV to STOP better than the ICE vehicle. The lower center of gravity makes up for the greater weight of the EV. And if an ice vehicle hits an EV, then the greater weight of the EV tends to be PROTECTIVE for its passengers.

[bopat]

Originally Posted by Pat2015

How many minutes does it take to get a full charge?

Not to dance around the question, but it's largely irrelevant.

When you drive around home, you plug it in when you're done, so it's always got a "full tank" (although you rarely, if ever charge it to 100%. I'm usually charged to around 60%, that's plenty.)

When you're traveling, the Tesla adds the superchargers to the trip according to temperature, elevation, traffic, charger utilization, wind speed and direction, driving style, among other factors. It even adjusts as you're driving.

When we travel, we find charge locations are spaced out around the same amount of time we'd like to use the bathroom and stretch our legs. So we stop, plug in, use the restroom, get a snack, and when we're done, the car is usually ready for the next leg of the trip.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by JRcorvette

Not sure about the cost quoted but if you consider all the factors owning an EV is probably close to 3 time that of a gas vehicle. And don’t forget about resale of an EV… no one will want an old EV unless you are selling dirt cheap. Let’s also consider the huge hassle of driving an EV anywhere other than local. The cost of the public fast chargers is very high (double or triple) the cost of gas.

All those negative factors are NOT true, but even if they were, then in another 2 years the playing field will completely change (improve) for EVs -- better batteries that are lighter, better and cheaper charging stations. Lower cost because they are easier to manufacture.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Ouch! If I remember correctly your gasoline is also more expensive but not by a factor of four (not $12/gal), right? So the savings in fuel would not be as great for you.

About double.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

The article is completely ridiculous and just more propaganda from the "I hate electric vehicles people" who also hate anything remotely beneficial to the environment, deny climate change, don't believe in science, & think coal & oil will last forever.

Coal and gas better last for ever cause they won’t be anything electric with out it.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Interesting, just how quickly these discussions become adversarial. They don't have to be. The fact of the matter is that ownership of an EV, or an ICE, makes more or less sense depending on the needs of the consumer. It is NOT a "one size fits all" issue. There is more than ample room for both.

One big issue is weather. EVs make much more sense in states like Florida, where the weather rarely goes below freezing even in the middle of winter. Cold weather takes a toll on an EV: if you're out driving when it is -20 F. the range of your EV is going to go down. The most obvious reason is that a lot more energy will be used just to keep the occupants warm and the windows defrosted, but there is more to it than that. Energy is needed to keep the battery warm as well; "EVs are designed to heat or cool off the battery in order for the battery to perform at its best. And because the optimal temperature for most batteries is between 15 and 30 degrees celsius, part of the energy is used to cover this need." (monta dot com). Add to that the fact that distances traveled here in Florida are less overall than in, say, North Dakota, Minnesota or Wyoming, for example, and a winter road trip in an EV in below-zero conditions all of a sudden poses dangers and challenges that just aren't there in an ICE-powered vehicle.

I'd certainly consider owning an EV here in Florida. Back home in Minnesota? Nope.

What is said about low temp affecting EV battery performance is TRUE......for today, but I believe that in the NEAR future that most all EV downsides will be designed away. I believe EVs today are like ICE vehicles around 1900. In other words, EVs have GREAT improvement potential. I like to think that I am adversarial to the concept (not people) that EVs will have bad downsides forever.
........And I am NOT advocating the immediate 100% takeover of ICE vehicles by EVs. I believe (and have previously stated) that if the US could get up to 30% of new car and truck sales being EVs, that would be enough to start to reverse the Global Warming trend - also if Europe and the rest of the world increased about 5% more of their new car sales. That would also give the US a stronger hand in dealing with Saudi Arabia and other adversaries.
........A fringe benefit would be cleaner air in the US and fewer lung disorders. People would live longer and healthier lives.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Coal and gas better last for ever cause they won’t be anything electric with out it.

Unless we produce electricity with some combination of wind, solar, hydro, thermal, hydrogen(?), nuclear fission, nuclear fusion(?), or something we haven't discovered yet.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Not only is the breathing in of polluted gas exhaust a bad thing for human health. And the smaller engine vehicles like GOLF CARTS, lawnmowers, and gas blowers produce a GREAT amount of bad air to breathe. The CO2 rises and hurts humans again by warming the planet (like we experienced this summer in the entire southern half of the US).

There is EVEN another nuisance irritating factor caused by large and small ICE engine devices.......NOISE. Noise is more detrimental to human health than is generally realized. And The Villages is the king of MEGA NOISE. Everywhere I went today, from the pickleball court to the softball field and back home........I was serenaded by the constant WHINE of high VOLUME grass cutting, limb cutting, and trimming ICE small engine NOISE. It was irritating. It would be a nice rule that the landscaping workers in The Villages would be required to use quieter battery-powered landscaping equipment. I don't think that it is too much to ask for a Community this large to be able to think about the concept of NOISE and its harmful effects. Not every old person here is deaf. We have many Doctors here in The Villages that could CONFIRM harmful effects of noise.
........When we are talking about EVs versus ICE engine vehicles and small engines, I think NOISE is a factor to consider.
.....And also the landscaping workers would NOT be exposed to such high NOISE that will cause them to lose hearing capacity in a few years.

[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Coal and gas better last for ever cause they won’t be anything electric with out it.

OMG Really?!?!?!?!
Tomorrow around 8:00am look East

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

Anyway you look at it EV’s are more expensive to operate when you figure everything into it. Plus you could lose it because they’re unsafe! Personally I don’t care how you figure it, they take a lot of money to buy & operate. I worked at Ford for 38 yrs. & I saw what goes on behind closed doors. Thanks for your explanation though. But I still think our president is wrong to shut down our oil productions to sell his EV’s because he wants to get a name for himself.

The way I look at it, an EV would save at least 6 cents per mile (about $700yr) plus $75 every 10,000 miles plus air filters, the random timing belt, and the occasional spark plug.

Saving nearly $1,000/yr is not what I would consider "more expensive to operate."

The statistics don't support characterizing EVs as unsafe.

I don't own one because of my long-range driving habits. When I get tired of driving that far on a regular basis I will probably buy one.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

. But I still think our president is wrong to shut down our oil productions to sell his EV’s because he wants to get a name for himself.

The U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration reported that American oil production in the first week of October hit 13.2 million barrels per day, passing the previous record set in 2020 by 100,000 barrels. Weekly domestic oil production has doubled from the first week in October 2012 to now.13 Oct 2023