[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Aloha. I want to state that I respect both women and men and their ideas. It is clear to me that some posters do not have a lot of respect for one or the other gender and their views.

I really do think we need to have laws that encourage real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections. I think the chance of certain groups manipulating people and voting is very high. Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote. To me that destroys the very essence of fair elections.

I don't think that most people dislike new immigrants at all. I would say that I speak for the majority of people in the U.S. when I say that good people are welcome and those that want to sell people or drugs are not. All around us in Florida we have so many great examples of hard working, saving, diligent and honest immigrants who want to be a success in this great land. And then there are a few who are here to harm us and use us. We need SOME controls to keep the bad people out. I have a REAL problem as a mother understanding how anyone could allow their child to come here or anywhere far from home unattended by someone who will protect them. It goes against ALL instinct that women are born with and all the high oxytocin we keep once we become a mother.

I dislike the IDEA of new immigrants. It's NOT a dislike of any ethnic group. It is strictly a numbers thing - a population thing. Everyone wants more and better roads. But few think of roads per population as I do. Or more broadly, ALL US resources per person. Maybe our current roads, for example, are good enough for 275 MILLION people, NOT 350 MILLION people? Has anyone ever calculated an OPTIMUM population in the US considering the US total resources. I have NEVER heard of that! In biology, ALL SPECIES have a certain HOLDING capacity considering their environment. Man is NOT exempt from THAT natural law. WE can see from Global Warming that MAN is past its holding capacity on earth. THAT has created a ZILLION problems and IS the base cause. Ask yourself, "why are people migrating northward into the US and Europe?"

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

The laws are to eliminate voter fraud which is rampant.

Please provide ANY proof of this!

Over $100M and six months and no proof has been presented anywhere, lots of "people are saying" - but 62 court cases and a long drawn out fraud audit have provided NO evidence.

So, please enlighten me, just a little proof and not Joe's brother heard someone say something.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Joe V.

What a comedian you are!

2020 election "most secure in history," security officials say

Trump’s own officials say 2020 was America’s most secure election in history - Vox

"The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result. "


Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees | CISA

It’s Official: The Election Was Secure | Brennan Center for Justice

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I dislike the IDEA of new immigrants. It's NOT a dislike of any ethnic group. It is strictly a numbers thing - a population thing. Everyone wants more and better roads. But few think of roads per population as I do. Or more broadly, ALL US resources per person. Maybe our current roads, for example, are good enough for 275 MILLION people, NOT 350 MILLION people? Has anyone ever calculated an OPTIMUM population in the US considering the US total resources. I have NEVER heard of that! In biology, ALL SPECIES have a certain HOLDING capacity considering their environment. Man is NOT exempt from THAT natural law. WE can see from Global Warming that MAN is past its holding capacity on earth. THAT has created a ZILLION problems and IS the base cause. Ask yourself, "why are people migrating northward into the US and Europe?"

I completely agree the earth is overpopulated. We currently consume more resources than the earth can replenish every year, and we reach that point around June of every year.

China has 2 billion people and approximately the same landmass as the US. China is the second-largest economy in the world - most are predicting it soon to be the largest.

China has 1.4B citizens, the US has 300M citizens.

300M more immigrants would bring more consumers, more workers more taxpayers, more of everything.

Economic immigration to Australia has produced net economic benefits in terms of helping to offset population aging, contributing to higher levels of GDP growth per capita, and improving labor productivity. The same is true in almost every country with large numbers of migrants.

[jimjamuser]

Here is one folk .......Gossard from Texas!

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Please provide ANY proof of this!

Over $100M and six months and no proof has been presented anywhere, lots of "people are saying" - but 62 court cases and a long drawn out fraud audit have provided NO evidence.

So, please enlighten me, just a little proof and not Joe's brother heard someone say something.

1,328
Proven instances of voter fraud
1,143
Criminal convictions
48
Civil penalties
99
Diversion program
21
Judicial finding
17
Official finding
Search the Database


Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

The basic flaw in your argument is "deny thousands of legal voters". Please provide evidence and proof that these laws would do that.

Since it is about FUTURE elections, it would be impossible at this time to prove one way or the other. There will be many court cases that can PROVE the likelihood of voter suppression.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Bucco

2020 election "most secure in history," security officials say

Trump’s own officials say 2020 was America’s most secure election in history - Vox

"The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result. "


Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees | CISA

It’s Official: The Election Was Secure | Brennan Center for Justice

Let's not forget that 100's of millions of dollars were donated to fund investigations into the election fraud 6 months ago - and after six months and a massive audit in Texas, NOTHING. NADA. Zip. No evidence, and yet people keep repeating over and over - "election fraud"... these same people often come on here and talk about believing in science and facts. And yet, nothing, nada, zip. No evidence to support the claim. But, the people in politics around the country keep promoting this claim without PROOF. And TV celebrities - some having a viewership of over 1% of the American population continues to promote these claims - with ZERO, ZIP NADA - no evidence.

That is pretty sad.

[manaboutown]

Anybody remember this one?

1948 United States Senate election in Texas - Wikipedia

Box 13 scandal - Wikipedia

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

1,328
Proven instances of voter fraud
1,143
Criminal convictions
48
Civil penalties
99
Diversion program
21
Judicial finding
17
Official finding
Search the Database


Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

Seriously, even without researching those numbers, you have now "proven" 1500 cases out of 150 million votes. And that is what all the voter fraud is about? You have shown nothing to prove our democracy is at risk.

That is what you have for $100M dollars and 6 months of investigations? I would say you have proven without a doubt that the election was the most secure election in the history of the world.. 0.0001% fraud.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

We are at a cusp in history, of that there is no doubt. Whether we are able to recapture our Great Experiment as a Constitutional Republic hangs in the balance. Right now the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy are trying to consolidate their power and "transform" our Nation into a Socialist, one party dictatorship. Indoctrination of our school age children is one way to ensure compliance and obedience with the youngest , etc. The threat is real and I am not willing to surrender .Never say, "It can't happen here".

You ARE right about a "threat" and Democracy "hanging in the balance". But, I think you are MISJUDGING the direction from which that "threat" IS coming. Hint............cult!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I would absolutely provide evidence of thousand of voters denied the opportunity to vote as soon as you provide evidence of massive voter fraud - enough to change the outcome of ANY presidential election.

My point was anything that makes it harder for legal voters to vote is bad, and anything that makes it easier for legal voters to vote is good.

I will be around if you can show the need for the laws to protect our votes.

I agree. Good post!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

The laws are to eliminate voter fraud which is rampant.

Not "RAMPANT" as proven by the Judge's decisions on about 40 state voter fraud cases. The last election is considered the best ever!

[Lindsyburnsy]

Excellent explanation! Thank you.

Originally Posted by JerryLBell

From what I've read, critical race theory is really two ideas.

The first is that the very idea of race is not based on biology or science of any kind. There's nothing about the physiology of humans that neatly divides humanity into categories like "white", "black", "Asian", etc. The attempts to divide people into these categories were done societally, not scientifically.

The second idea is that American history shows us that governments put in place in the Americas by European settlers were and continue to be racist in nature. To steal land away from the indigenous people, governments put into place laws that made those peoples have fewer or any rights and encouraged the suppression of those peoples. Prior to the industrial revolution, manual labor was vital and slave labor was cheaper than paid labor, so laws were put into place to allow kidnapping, torturing and enslaving peoples from other countries, especially Africa. Laws were put into place over time to exclude Asians. During World War II, people of Japanese heritage were robbed of their properties and imprisoned while people of German heritage were not. Even after the emancipation of enslaved people in America, voting rights were suppressed and continue to be so to this day.

Critical race theory doesn't paint an artificially pretty picture of American history or governance. If you read history deeply, however, it is probably a more accurate picture. Does this divide people? Possibly. Some people are averse to learning unpleasant truths. I've always thought that true patriotism wasn't blindly loving ones country, right or wrong but rather wanting the best for and out of ones country, realizing when ones country was wrong or doing wrong and changing it for the better even if that involves discomfort and hard work.

America isn't perfect and never was. It gets better over time, despite occasional backsliding. I hope it continues to get better and better in the future. Pretending we are and have been perfect won't help us get there.

But that's just my opinion.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I completely agree the earth is overpopulated. We currently consume more resources than the earth can replenish every year, and we reach that point around June of every year.

China has 2 billion people and approximately the same landmass as the US. China is the second-largest economy in the world - most are predicting it soon to be the largest.

China has 1.4B citizens, the US has 300M citizens.

300M more immigrants would bring more consumers, more workers more taxpayers, more of everything.

Economic immigration to Australia has produced net economic benefits in terms of helping to offset population aging, contributing to higher levels of GDP growth per capita, and improving labor productivity. The same is true in almost every country with large numbers of migrants.

WE agree that world population IS too HIGH. I agree that Australia increased its GNP with MORE immigrants. GNP is NOT some GOD. It is, in fact, a very DUMB yardstick to measure HUMAN society with. I would suggest that QUALITY of LIFE would be MUCH better! A simple example........the US has had GNP increase recently, yet CV has messed around with many people's Quality of Life. Another example.......for the last 10 or many more years GNP has increased - yet people are having fewer children partly because they say "the next generation will be less "well off" than our current one. Less "well off" equates to Quality of Life, not GNP. GNP is like a FALSE GOD cooked up by Wall Street and ad agencies as a SUBSTITUTE for HUMAN HAPPINESS! Just be aware of that.