[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What is your personal opinion on schools opening? Is it safe for children? Teachers? Staff? Will it further spread Covid-19? How safe/dangerous is it?

No way Jose! Better to try for after Jan when more is known about CV. Maybe some treatment springs up. Also needed are full PPEs provided through the DPA legislation.

[makani]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What is your personal opinion on schools opening?

I am an actively employed 25-year middle school teacher and a part-time online AP world history teacher in Hawaii researching retirement options, maybe early retirement. I can personally attest educators want to see their kids in the classroom. Most teachers teach because it is important work, not for the salary. Online instruction does not work for every student. Motivated, intelligent students do well. If a student has special needs, lacks support at home, is homeless, and/or lacks motivation, online learning can be challenging. Online instruction takes more time to prepare than face-to-face instruction and many teachers had to be trained because it is different. Many teachers had to teach from home while their own kids were at home competing with computer use, just as any working parent had to do. Nothing beats face-to-face instruction. Parents depend on schools being open so they can go to work. Kids need to socialize with each other. It is not healthy being in front of a screen most of the day. Safety is a huge issue.

We plan on rotating students in secondary schools. We will split the classes - one group attends Mon. and Wed., the other group attends on Tues. and Thurs. When one group is at school, the other half are online. Friday is for students who have special needs or need other interventions, IEP meetings, etc. We do not have the physical space for social distancing. Our class sizes have always been too large. We do not have enough personnel. We have always had a teaching shortage, especially in Hawaii. Believe me, there are not enough people who want to substitute teach, let alone choose a teaching career. We do not have enough resources. I purchase my own disinfectant, tissues, and other supplies yearly and will no doubt increase that this year. Schools are germy Petri dishes. We require 6-foot distancing and masks at stores, but aren't our kids and teachers important too? What happens if, no when, a teacher gets sick and is out for a minimum of 2 weeks? What happens when teachers and students bring the virus home to an at-risk family member? Our COVID numbers are low in Hawaii - totaling approximately 1,100 in the entire state, 19 deaths. The numbers will go up when the 14-day travel quarantine is lifted and tourists from the hot spots visit. I hope to teach 2-5 more years until I retire - hopefully to the Villages. My husband is healthy but had a kidney transplant. He is staying with his 93-year-old mom on the mainland. I suggested he stay there until we have a vaccine because I do not want to risk his health when I return to school in 3 weeks. Be safe everyone. I am praying for a vaccine, it's our only solution right now as opposed to survival of the fittest. Sorry this is so long but thought you may want to hear a working teacher's perspective.

[chet2020]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

The comment you are replying to contains a gigantic error.

Originally Posted by blueash
It discusses the situation in Sweden and Denmark. Neither country had the community spread we have here.

Sweden was hit very hard by the virus with 7300 confirmed cases per million, USA is 9772 per million. Sweden is ranked #12 in the world for cases per million, USA is ranked #8. So saying Sweden did not have similar community spread to USA is complete nonsense.

Current COVID-19 situation - COVID 19 graph & data

So when you look at actual data from Sweden which kept schools open during entire outbreak and see zero deaths and very low positive cases in students and teachers you can see that in reality, reopening schools is not dangerous. Lots of people will make erroneous statements or quote irrelevant facts and try to convince you otherwise.

PS In regard to testing, USA has tested double the amount per capita as Sweden as I noted previously.

I too was interested in how the Swedish approach would work out. Not well, as it turns out.

Death Rates per 100,000:

Norway 4.7
Finland 6.0
Denmark 10.5
Sweden 54.0

Sweden's economy is in the tank, just like everyone else's. Just saw an interview with a Swedish restaurateur. She had three restaurants, 150 employees. She's down to one restaurant, 10 employees. You can't fix the economy until you squash the virus. We had our chance when we quenched the first wave - then we blew it.

BTW, South Korea, Japan, Iceland, New Zealand squashed the virus, now their economies are full steam ahead (with the exception of no crowds at sporting events). Simple approach - large-scale testing, tracing, and isolation, something the greatest country in the world couldn't manage.

New Zealand 0.5
South Korea 0.6
Japan 0.8
Iceland 2.8
U.S. 40.7

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by chet2020

I too was interested in how the Swedish approach would work out. Not well, as it turns out.

Death Rates per 100,000:

Norway 4.7
Finland 6.0
Denmark 10.5
Sweden 54.0

Sweden's economy is in the tank, just like everyone else's. Just saw an interview with a Swedish restaurateur. She had three restaurants, 150 employees. She's down to one restaurant, 10 employees. You can't fix the economy until you squash the virus. We had our chance when we quenched the first wave - then we blew it.

BTW, South Korea, Japan, Iceland, New Zealand squashed the virus, now their economies are full steam ahead (with the exception of no crowds at sporting events). Simple approach - large-scale testing, tracing, and isolation, something the greatest country in the world couldn't manage.

New Zealand 0.5
South Korea 0.6
Japan 0.8
Iceland 2.8
U.S. 40.7

US still in 1st wave. 2nd will be in fall/winter.

Another reason for home schooling. Keep your children safe and give them a better education than indoctrination in public schools.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by chet2020

I too was interested in how the Swedish approach would work out. Not well, as it turns out.

Death Rates per 100,000:

Norway 4.7
Finland 6.0
Denmark 10.5
Sweden 54.0

Sweden's economy is in the tank, just like everyone else's. Just saw an interview with a Swedish restaurateur. She had three restaurants, 150 employees. She's down to one restaurant, 10 employees. You can't fix the economy until you squash the virus. We had our chance when we quenched the first wave - then we blew it.

BTW, South Korea, Japan, Iceland, New Zealand squashed the virus, now their economies are full steam ahead (with the exception of no crowds at sporting events). Simple approach - large-scale testing, tracing, and isolation, something the greatest country in the world couldn't manage.

New Zealand 0.5
South Korea 0.6
Japan 0.8
Iceland 2.8
U.S. 40.7

How is the virus squashed anywhere when it is still all over the world? Not having a current outbreak doesn't mean that the virus is no longer out there.

People who think that this virus is miraculously going to go away because people are wearing homemade masks are engaging in magical, wishful thinking.

[Nanny32162]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What is your personal opinion on schools opening? Is it safe for children? Teachers? Staff? Will it further spread Covid-19? How safe/dangerous is it?

I think that it is dangerous to open fully, a modified schedule say Monday, Tuesday for half; thorough cleaning on Wednesday and Thursday, Friday for the other half; the children that were not in school would connect through distance learning, and have interaction with the others in the classroom. Masks should be required. There is no way that there is anyway a school could know all the contacts children have had, they could be carriers and no one would be aware of it. A classroom crowded with children is a germy place under the best of circumstances. The argument that it is hard on working parents doesn't fly, since when were schools a babysitting service?

[JimJohnson]

Being a retired school teacher, Gracie, what is your opinion?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

Being a retired school teacher, Gracie, what is your opinion?

I was reading some of the responses and wondered how bad it could be to just forget school and formal education for a year to see if things are better and safer later for teachers and kids. I hear arguments that children forget what they learned over summer, but I don't know. I remember my high school French and some really useless higher math and I graduated in '57. Perhaps they could be taught to be helpful keeping the home clean or seeing how it is to plant vegetables and fruit to eat, or even planting flowers and tending them. I mowed the yard with an old fashioned no motor lawn mower and we had a hill in front. It was HOT in July. High school kids could be taught how to run a home and how much it costs and to be careful and prudent with money. There are so many important things like that, that have been neglected. Older kids could make virtual visits to seniors alone in nursing homes for a chat and a laugh together.........so many things in this world need to be learned that are not taught in school.

Teachers could during that time find employment in another field. I have always thought that all education would be improved if our teachers were involved for awhile in retail business.

You asked. That is my fifty cents, sir.

[chet2020]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

How is the virus squashed anywhere when it is still all over the world? Not having a current outbreak doesn't mean that the virus is no longer out there.

People who think that this virus is miraculously going to go away because people are wearing homemade masks are engaging in magical, wishful thinking.

Certainly the virus is not squashed worldwide, all any given country can do is worry about themselves. I would call the virus squashed in a country when the population can safely dine-in at restaurants, safely work side by side in offices and factories, and when people arrive from other countries are tested immediately to insure they are not bringing the virus in. Countries like South Korea and New Zealand have done this. They have reached a point where people are not afraid to socialize and go to work. Their economies are functioning at 95% until there is a vaccine or treatment.

We could have spent a few hundred billion to squash the virus here, instead we are slapping band-aids on. We have already spent trillions on emergency aid packages and are no closer to having the virus under control.

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I was reading some of the responses and wondered how bad it could be to just forget school and formal education for a year to see if things are better and safer later for teachers and kids. I hear arguments that children forget what they learned over summer, but I don't know. I remember my high school French and some really useless higher math and I graduated in '57. Perhaps they could be taught to be helpful keeping the home clean or seeing how it is to plant vegetables and fruit to eat, or even planting flowers and tending them. I mowed the yard with an old fashioned no motor lawn mower and we had a hill in front. It was HOT in July. High school kids could be taught how to run a home and how much it costs and to be careful and prudent with money. There are so many important things like that, that have been neglected. Older kids could make virtual visits to seniors alone in nursing homes for a chat and a laugh together.........so many things in this world need to be learned that are not taught in school.

Teachers could during that time find employment in another field. I have always thought that all education would be improved if our teachers were involved for awhile in retail business.

You asked. That is my fifty cents, sir.

And wonderfully stated. You carried me back to my own childhood.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by chet2020

I too was interested in how the Swedish approach would work out. Not well, as it turns out.

Hmmm Sweden's stats look much better when you compare them to this list of top ten death rates in the World.

Countries and US states with highest death rates per million

1. New Jersey 1757 deaths per million
2. New York 1665
3. Connecticut 1220
4. Massachusetts 1206
5. Rhode Island 921
6. Belgium 853
7. DC 805
8. Louisiana 733
9. United Kingdom 659
10. Michigan 632

So 5 US States have the very worst death rates per million in the world. US States have 7 of the highest death rates in the world. I included District of Columbia because they keep their own stats and made their own policies about lockdown etc. Those 7 states combine for a total of 71,351 covid 19 deaths, which is 52% of all covid 19 deaths in USA. 52% of deaths and only 16% of total population.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by makani

I am an actively employed 25-year middle school teacher and a part-time online AP world history teacher in Hawaii researching retirement options, maybe early retirement. I can personally attest educators want to see their kids in the classroom. Most teachers teach because it is important work, not for the salary. Online instruction does not work for every student. Motivated, intelligent students do well. If a student has special needs, lacks support at home, is homeless, and/or lacks motivation, online learning can be challenging. Online instruction takes more time to prepare than face-to-face instruction and many teachers had to be trained because it is different. Many teachers had to teach from home while their own kids were at home competing with computer use, just as any working parent had to do. Nothing beats face-to-face instruction. Parents depend on schools being open so they can go to work. Kids need to socialize with each other. It is not healthy being in front of a screen most of the day. Safety is a huge issue.

We plan on rotating students in secondary schools. We will split the classes - one group attends Mon. and Wed., the other group attends on Tues. and Thurs. When one group is at school, the other half are online. Friday is for students who have special needs or need other interventions, IEP meetings, etc. We do not have the physical space for social distancing. Our class sizes have always been too large. We do not have enough personnel. We have always had a teaching shortage, especially in Hawaii. Believe me, there are not enough people who want to substitute teach, let alone choose a teaching career. We do not have enough resources. I purchase my own disinfectant, tissues, and other supplies yearly and will no doubt increase that this year. Schools are germy Petri dishes. We require 6-foot distancing and masks at stores, but aren't our kids and teachers important too? What happens if, no when, a teacher gets sick and is out for a minimum of 2 weeks? What happens when teachers and students bring the virus home to an at-risk family member? Our COVID numbers are low in Hawaii - totaling approximately 1,100 in the entire state, 19 deaths. The numbers will go up when the 14-day travel quarantine is lifted and tourists from the hot spots visit. I hope to teach 2-5 more years until I retire - hopefully to the Villages. My husband is healthy but had a kidney transplant. He is staying with his 93-year-old mom on the mainland. I suggested he stay there until we have a vaccine because I do not want to risk his health when I return to school in 3 weeks. Be safe everyone. I am praying for a vaccine, it's our only solution right now as opposed to survival of the fittest. Sorry this is so long but thought you may want to hear a working teacher's perspective.

Mahalo for your insightful post. This upcoming school year is going to be challenging for all -- students, parents, teachers, principals, administrators, administrative support staff, bus drivers, cafeteria workers and custodial staff. You are all going into uncharted territory, and I hope all of you can stay safe and healthy.

[Marvic 1]

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

Life threatening right now. How could anyone send their child into a crowded room under these circumstances?
This would be child abuse and WILL cause some children to die. One child dying is too many. Stop this insanity and listen to the medical and scientific experts. Wait for a vaccine before endangering the lives of children.

Thanks you for your Typical Talking Points.... Nothing but Scare Tactics - "WILL cause some children to die"....

[Marvic 1]

Originally Posted by saratogaman

Leave it up to parents, educators and health officials --NOT to politicians who care only about reelection!

Parents - Since when are they experts to stop OTHER children from learning!
Educators - Run by Unions who decides for them!
Health Official - Clueless!