[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

You are not correct about the doctor's certificate. The employee doesn't even need to be sick, but can use sick leave to help a friend or family member. If a manager asks for a doctor certificate, they will usually be charged with an EEO complaint for discrimination. The employee will just ask for the documentation used by other employees who took sick leave, and the manager will not have it, hence, discrimination. In 35 years as a Federal employee, I never saw a case where an employee was prevented from using any sick leave they wanted. There were even some employees who would go on sick leave for a year or so, with no intention of returning to work, and then file for their retirement. That gives them an entire extra year of pay, benefits, and longevity, before retiring.

I take it you were never a manager. There are employees who may try filing a grievance but a good manager would have the documentation to counter it.

A year on sick leave with no documentation from a medical professional? I seriously doubt it. Where I worked if you were off even seven days you could expect to be asked for documentation. A full year? Sure, odd, one-off things happen; 12 people have walked on the moon but that hardly equates to Americans all go to the moon.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by spd2918

Ah, another excuse to celebrate how bad some people had things in the distant past. Why do some people promote themselves as victims when they live in the most opportunistic society ever?

Its all about political power. If we can keep victimhood alive then we can make people hate each other. Angry people are easy to control.

There was a Black lynched in1981, not the"DISTANT" past!

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

Not grossly over what most companies give.

The biggest difference is that Federal employees can accumulate an unlimited number of sick days. I don't think most companies can afford to do that. Also, most upper level employees in a company are paid on a salary basis. But, Federal employees are essentially hourly workers, paid for an 8 hour day, 40 hours per week. If they work longer, you have to pay them more money. Even those making over $150K are paid by the hour. What company does that?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I don't know what you mean by tone, but I was just stating the facts about the sick leave rules for Federal employees. If you are an employee for 20 years, you can accumulate 260 days of sick leave and 30 days of vacation time. That, added to the current year's weekends, vacation days, holidays, and sick leave, will allow the employee to be away from work for more than a year. There is no way a Federal manager can efficiently manage a project when their employees have that much flexibility in the work schedule.

As far as Federal employees working hard, they only need to work 40 hours per week and, if you want them to work longer, you must pay them overtime. It is illegal to not pay them.

Mathematically, that is correct but it is a fantasy.
1. The person who has used zero sick leave in 20 years is not about to use it all at once.
2. No manager would allow their employee to be on sick leave for that long without medical documentation. (Yes, I have seen Fed employees fired for abuse of sick leave)

As far as Fed employees working hard, you apparently don't have a clue. Every place has its slackers but I personally know Fed employees who regularly worked uncompensated hours and others who gave away their annual leave rather than taking it. It is usually (not always) illegal to not pay a Fed employee for all the hours they work but it is also illegal to pay them 40 hours if they worked less - it goes both ways.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I take it you were never a manager. There are employees who may try filing a grievance but a good manager would have the documentation to counter it.

A year on sick leave with no documentation from a medical professional? I seriously doubt it. Where I worked if you were off even seven days you could expect to be asked for documentation. A full year? Sure, odd, one-off things happen; 12 people have walked on the moon but that hardly equates to Americans all go to the moon.

Not true. I was a manager and also was an Inspector General, responsible for knowing and enforcing the rules. The problem with asking for medical documentation is that, unless you enforce the requirement consistently across the agency, you are discriminating. Someone who wants to use a year of sick leave is just as entitled to use it as the guy who calls in sick on Monday morning almost every week. Another problem is that the employee doesn't need to be sick to use the leave. He/she can say that he needs to travel out of town to help a friend or family member. And, finally, most employees who abuse sick leave can usually provide a letter from a medical provider, and the manager has no way to dispute the letter. The agency is not going to hire a doctor to dispute a medical letter from a private doctor.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Joe C.

So we have another federal holiday that ALL AMERICANS can't identify with. Do we really need it? Or is it just paying lip service to a small minority? Most Americans either never heard of Juneteenth (not even a real word) or if they did, weren't really interested in it.
So I consider it another notch in the slow decline of the U.S.A.

I do believe in July 4th......a day to celebrate ALL AMERICANS.

It is a righteous, evolved moment to be celebrated and marks the beginning of a future where ALL races are equally invested in America - NOT just an America for the exclusive benefit of WHITES. The future belongs to ALL races.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

There was a Black lynched in1981, not the"DISTANT" past!

And that was horrible and the people who did it should be charged with murder but 40 years ago is a long time.

Things have improved substantially over time and think a new holiday is not necessary for continued improvement.

[mjpuleo]

I totally agree with DAVES. I can think of many other days that deserve recognition -- the first one being Sept. 11 -- how about making that a national memorial holiday, not just a Patriots Day of recognition. That is a day that would honor all races and religions. Let's get our priorities straight!!!

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Mathematically, that is correct but it is a fantasy.
1. The person who has used zero sick leave in 20 years is not about to use it all at once.
2. No manager would allow their employee to be on sick leave for that long without medical documentation. (Yes, I have seen Fed employees fired for abuse of sick leave)

As far as Fed employees working hard, you apparently don't have a clue. Every place has its slackers but I personally know Fed employees who regularly worked uncompensated hours and others who gave away their annual leave rather than taking it. It is usually (not always) illegal to not pay a Fed employee for all the hours they work but it is also illegal to pay them 40 hours if they worked less - it goes both ways.

Definitely not a fantasy. My experience was quite different. In my experience, it would have been almost impossible to fire a Federal employee for abusing sick leave. Typically, an employee can use sick leave by just calling into the office and not showing up. No documentation is needed. If that is the policy, then you cannot single out anyone and fire them.

Employees who don't do any work are not necessarily slackers. Some agencies have so much funding that they hire way more employees than they need. And, they will never return money that they don't need. The problem is that, without a profit motive, it is impossible to measure or control the efficiency of a Government office.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Just another "notch" for the special interest groups.
Doesn't mean much, if at all, to most!

OLD people and old IDEAS die off. The future can't be stopped and IS full of NEW ideas! Racial differences are slowly becoming unimportant.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

It is a righteous, evolved moment to be celebrated and marks the beginning of a future where ALL races are equally invested in America - NOT just an America for the exclusive benefit of WHITES. The future belongs to ALL races.

Where all races do equal work and pay equal taxes????
Where no race commits a disproportionate amount of crime?
Where no race gets to loot and burn if they don't get their way?
Where no race collects a disproportionate amount of free government "stuff"?

I'm all in favor, when does that start?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by lkagele

Really? Public employees are paid more on average than private workers. They also have better benefits both during work and afterwards during retirement. Government doesn't really worry about a budget so public jobs are typically overpaid and over-staffed. The risk of getting fired in the public sector is miniscule compared to the private sector.

Public unions (which should be outlawed, IMO) have taken advantage of no real entity with actual skin in the game on the other side of the negotiating table. All one has to do is look at the abhorrent behavior of the majority of the teacher's unions during the pandemic. They kept their teachers from working while never missing a pay check. Then, much of the stimulus money went to pay bonuses.

Teachers MERELY wanted SAFETY from CV, which everyone wanted. Their jobs are mostly indoors which have an 18% greater spread of CV than outdoors. Teachers did NOT want to be BULLIED by administrators that were more aligned with politicians than the teachers. CV was NEW and FRIGHTENING - teachers do NOT get DANGER pay like firefighters and the Police. CV IS still not over because of anti-vaxxers and ignorance of the strength of the Delta variant. I can understand the reluctance of teachers to jump into a petri dish.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

You are right, but wasting your time here. People here hear ONE story about an employee that supporters their position that government employees are lazy and get away with whatever, and that confirms their views. So, it becomes a mantra to be repeated. The same as the claim that people are buying lobster with food stamps - sure one or even a few did, the other 38 million people didn't, but that doesn't stop the hair fire about all the people doing it. It's a thing - find ONE case of something bad, and rant about how the entire thing is bad.

Liberals are guilty of this too - look at Jan 6th - not all Republicans supported that, but liberals tend to blame them all.

It's like high school pep rallies, screaming and ranting on the other school. I thought by the time people retired they could grow up.

Tribalism was an anthropological strength many eons ago. Primitive man was wary of any NOT of their small tribe. It was a survival skill then. Now, it is STILL hardwired into our brains (the base reptilian area). Consciously, today, we overcome those primitive impulses because of the greater benefits of trade, technology spread, and ease of travel. Apparently, there is human variability in the quality of the human conscious brain.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Tribalism was an anthropological strength many eons ago. Primitive man was wary of any NOT of their small tribe. It was a survival skill then. Now, it is STILL hardwired into our brains (the base reptilian area). Consciously, today, we overcome those primitive impulses because of the greater benefits of trade, technology spread, and ease of travel. Apparently, there is human variability in the quality of the human conscious brain.

Yup. I expect we are heading into a "Great Reset" soon. The perfect storm.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by geltner@verizon.net

The holiday is great but they should have canceled another day off to keep holidays from adding up. So many workers do NOT get these days off and have to pay for the federal, state workers who don't work and still get paid.

It is NOT a zero-sum-game. A Federal employee getting a holiday COULD (?) help others to get the SAME holiday. It does NOT have to be a deterrent. Not sure why it would bother anyone?