[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by Byte1

There has already been reparations in our country. Affirmative action comes to mind.

Affirmative Action probably did help some, and only about 100 years after the end of the Civil War. Hard to figure why that wasn't enough...

Originally Posted by Byte1

But, how do you figure out who gets what? After all, many former slaves received confiscated land in the South after the Civil War. I would think that everyone having the same Constitutional rights today should be enough to satisfy most, without having certain groups treated better than others, just based on color, gender or sexual preference.

Some former slaves received confiscated land, however "Almost all land allocated during the war was restored to its pre-war white owners." Forty acres and a mule - Wikipedia
I'm unsure exactly which groups you feel are being treated better than others...

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

Actually they do. When we visited one of the stops on our tour was Hitlers bunker.

And there were statues there in his honor??? I don't think so.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Not interested in "sending a message."

Fine. Then you got exactly what you paid for.

Originally Posted by Byte1

Time for folks to get over it and get on with their lives.

Another great point. We white folks have gotten over the fact that some of our ancestors owned slaves here in the U.S. for over 300 years, why can't the slaves' descendants just turn the other cheek? Sheeesh, talk about white denial...

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

And there were statues there in his honor??? I don't think so.

It's actually illegal in Germany, to erect statues/monuments of Hitler or Nazi's...as it should be.

German Laws

German Chancellor Angela Merkel expressed horror at the racist marches that roiled Charlottesville, Virginia, this past weekend. “It is racist, far-right violence, and clear, forceful action must be taken against it, regardless of where in the world it happens,” she said on German television Monday.

She might have added that such a thing wouldn’t have happened in today’s Germany — because it’s illegal.

While America protects the right of neo-Nazis, white supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, and other hate groups to hold public rallies and express their views openly, Germany has strict laws banning Nazi symbols and what’s called Volksverhetzung — incitement of the people, or hate speech. Like more than a dozen European countries, Germany also has a law criminalizing Holocaust denial.

And while Confederate statues can be found in many American cities south of the Mason-Dixon Line, there are no statues of Adolf Hitler or Joseph Goebbels gracing public squares in Berlin, let alone Nazi flags or other Nazi art.

Public Nazi imagery was long ago destroyed, and swastikas were long since knocked off the walls of Nazi-era buildings.

The only Nazi imagery you’ll find is in exhibits devoted to understanding the horror of the period.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

And there were statues there in his honor??? I don't think so.

No there aren't but they have not tried to completely eradicate it either.

Take a lesson: How Germany handles monuments from Nazi and communist eras

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

Fine. Then you got exactly what you paid for.
Another great point. We white folks have gotten over the fact that some of our ancestors owned slaves here in the U.S. for over 300 years, why can't the slaves' descendants just turn the other cheek? Sheeesh, talk about white denial...

I do not know of anyone that was a slave owner and I do not know of anyone that was a slave (other than a friend that came over here as an indentured servant after WWII). None of my ancestors owned slaves, as far as I know. And if they did, it would have been in Europe, so how would reparations go in that case?
EVERYONE born in this country now has Constitutional Rights, so why would they think they are owed any "reparations?"
Before accusing me of "white denial" it would be well served if you knew my ethnicity. FYI: I come from a multi-ethnicity family, consisting of African Americans, Latino, Japanese, Filipino, and yes some European Americans. My family did not arrive in the U.S. until way after the Civil War, so why would I be obliged to donate my EARNED income toward a frivolous cause? And would our Indigenous Natives (American Indians), Japanese descendants confined to WWII camps, and Chinese RR workers, etc. also have a share in such Gov give aways?
Exactly how many different ways does America have to say they are sorry for unfavorable treatment before enough is considered enough? And is there any reason that I or anyone in my family should need to apologize for something I am not guilty of? I think not.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

No there aren't but they have not tried to completely eradicate it either.

Take a lesson: How Germany handles monuments from Nazi and communist eras

Per your link...

- The overdue momentum to remove various Confederate symbols, especially about 1,500 statues, from their perches has picked up across the country

- Not out of concern for the preposterous right-wing lament about the erasure of history, but because the task at hand is to purge the imagery in a way that guards against amnesia, while also transforming the statues from celebratory monuments to objective evidence.

- Over the last 70 years, the country has accepted a simple truth: Out of sight hardly means out of mind. The removal of the relics of a hateful social order is not in itself cause for celebration. It is the aftermath that matters.

What decent American could argue...with ANY of that?


.

[NoMoSno]

Wonder if Senator Byrd's portraits will be removed from the senate halls.
Senator Byrd (D)...member and "kleagle" (recruiter) for the KKK.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Per your link...



What decent American could argue...with ANY of that?


.

Which is why we are where we are. Now, if you disagree you not a decent American. Where will it end.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by karostay

Our country is being torn down right before our eyes
Most of Washington embraces it

So true!

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I do not know of anyone that was a slave owner and I do not know of anyone that was a slave (other than a friend that came over here as an indentured servant after WWII). None of my ancestors owned slaves, as far as I know. And if they did, it would have been in Europe, so how would reparations go in that case?
EVERYONE born in this country now has Constitutional Rights, so why would they think they are owed any "reparations?"
Before accusing me of "white denial" it would be well served if you knew my ethnicity. FYI: I come from a multi-ethnicity family, consisting of African Americans, Latino, Japanese, Filipino, and yes some European Americans. My family did not arrive in the U.S. until way after the Civil War, so why would I be obliged to donate my EARNED income toward a frivolous cause? And would our Indigenous Natives (American Indians), Japanese descendants confined to WWII camps, and Chinese RR workers, etc. also have a share in such Gov give aways?
Exactly how many different ways does America have to say they are sorry for unfavorable treatment before enough is considered enough? And is there any reason that I or anyone in my family should need to apologize for something I am not guilty of? I think not.

Maybe, the efforts to make you, your children, grandchildren or great grandchildren feel shame and guilt for long past grievances is a form of bullying to extort some kind of benefit (money, land or preferential treatment) under the guise of "reparation" for some awful thing that happened generations before they were born or could possibly have had any control over.
I had a friend that spent WW2 in a Japanese interment camp. He was surprised and shocked at the idea of reparations as he understood the context of the time and felt it unnecessary and insulted that anyone should think it necessary. Not the same as the slavery issue to be sure, still in the same context of depriving a people of their freedom.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Time for folks to get over it and get on with their lives.

Originally Posted by Byte1

Before accusing me of "white denial" it would be well served if you knew my ethnicity. FYI: I come from a multi-ethnicity family, consisting of African Americans, Latino, Japanese, Filipino, and yes some European Americans.

OK then, how about multi-ethnic denial. Getting over it isn't all that easy for people that have been living with discrimination for hundreds of years and still are.

Originally Posted by Byte1

I do not know of anyone that was a slave owner and I do not know of anyone that was a slave (other than a friend that came over here as an indentured servant after WWII). None of my ancestors owned slaves, as far as I know. And if they did, it would have been in Europe, so how would reparations go in that case?
EVERYONE born in this country now has Constitutional Rights, so why would they think they are owed any "reparations?" My family did not arrive in the U.S. until way after the Civil War, so why would I be obliged to donate my EARNED income toward a frivolous cause? ... And is there any reason that I or anyone in my family should need to apologize for something I am not guilty of? I think not.

First, whether or not you know any slaves or owners is moot. Neither do I, but the practice did legally exist in this country for nearly 250 years.
Second, I never argued for reparations, but did say that following through with Gen Sherman's promise of 40 acres & a mule when it was first made, would have cost relatively little & may have gone a long ways to ease the pain of the released slaves. But obviously, that never happened.
Lastly, IF reparations were ordered by the federal government, your personal or family history in this country would not even be a consideration. A similar situation would be if someone moved to a country that was heavily sanctioned by the U.S. and said, "Why me?!?! What did I do to deserve this?"

Originally Posted by Byte1

And would our Indigenous Natives (American Indians), Japanese descendants confined to WWII camps, and Chinese RR workers, etc. also have a share in such Gov give aways?
Exactly how many different ways does America have to say they are sorry for unfavorable treatment before enough is considered enough?

I dunno. Again, I was not the one who raised the idea of reparations and truthfully, I doubt that it could do a lot of good at this late date. I suppose a lot of people could have a case; none stronger than African-Americans and Native Americans, IMO.

Originally Posted by Byte1

Exactly how many different ways does America have to say they are sorry for unfavorable treatment before enough is considered enough?

Saying it hasn't really helped much so far.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

OK then, how about multi-ethnic denial. Getting over it isn't all that easy for people that have been living with discrimination for hundreds of years and still are.


First, whether or not you know any slaves or owners is moot. Neither do I, but the practice did legally exist in this country for nearly 250 years.
Second, I never argued for reparations, but did say that following through with Gen Sherman's promise of 40 acres & a mule when it was first made, would have cost relatively little & may have gone a long ways to ease the pain of the released slaves. But obviously, that never happened.
Lastly, IF reparations were ordered by the federal government, your personal or family history in this country would not even be a consideration. A similar situation would be if someone moved to a country that was heavily sanctioned by the U.S. and said, "Why me?!?! What did I do to deserve this?"

I dunno. Again, I was not the one who raised the idea of reparations and truthfully, I doubt that it could do a lot of good at this late date. I suppose a lot of people could have a case; none stronger than African-Americans and Native Americans, IMO.
Saying it hasn't really helped much so far.

Other than perhaps WASPs every nationality has been discriminated against and the vast majority overcame it and live the American dream.

Some people should stop playing the victim and get on with their lives and work for what they want.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Which is why we are where we are. Now, if you disagree you not a decent American. Where will it end.

So I was wrong in assuming, "decent American's"...don't admire traitors to our country?


I guess I should be watching for a Benedict Arnold statue...going up somewhere soon?



I definitely like your sig line though...

"No one believes the truth when the lie is more interesting."

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by NoMoSno

Wonder if Senator Byrd's portraits will be removed from the senate halls.
Senator Byrd (D)...member and "kleagle" (recruiter) for the KKK.

Wasn't he that guy that had the guts, courage and leadership to admit...that he had been wrong?

Very little of THAT going around these days.