[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

[rustyp]

What is the difference - no shirt no shoes no service

[GoodLife]

You also have a right to look at actual data that shows masks and lockdowns don't actually work all that well

New York locked down and recommended masks: result 2nd highest death total per million in the world.

Sweden did neither and had less than 30% of deaths per million

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

You also have a right to look at actual data that shows masks and lockdowns don't actually work all that well

New York locked down and recommended masks: result 2nd highest death total per million in the world.

Sweden did neither and had less than 30% of deaths per million

Attachment 85308

You have every right to look at that and believe in anecdotal evidence if you want as well.

Of course you're looking at a country with a population density of 63 persons per square mile and comparing it to a city with 26,403 persons per square mile. But go on and trust that. You have every right to.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

You also have a right to look at actual data that shows masks and lockdowns don't actually work all that well

New York locked down and recommended masks: result 2nd highest death total per million in the world.

Sweden did neither and had less than 30% of deaths per million

Attachment 85308

We have the right to not be ignorant too......you don't need to look hard for stats that meet an agenda or our bias. Remember that the stats and opinions and data you like may be useless because we have no way to verify, we only have a way to believe. Thank goodness more people have developed a case of common sense then we had before, and I suspect have written to the management of those stores and businesses that have helped in the change of policies. I suspect it took them a little longer to implement since the lawyers needed to sign off. Guess Costco's lawyers were a little faster

[canyonblue]

I agree, and if a business DOES NOT require a mask to enter, don't blow a gasket when you see someone without one. You knew the rules when you entered, same as businesses that REQUIRE a mask.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

You have every right to look at that and believe in anecdotal evidence if you want as well.

Of course you're looking at a country with a population density of 63 persons per square mile and comparing it to a city with 26,403 persons per square mile. But go on and trust that. You have every right to.

That graph compares Sweden to NEW YORK STATE. (not NYC) So lets compare apples to apples. The urban density (number of citizens who live in or near cities) is 85% in Sweden and 87% in New York State. Nobody lives in vast swaths of Sweden, it is 3 times the size of New York State with 50% of the population. Viral epidemiology looks at urban density, not people per square mile.

PS Its not anecdotal evidence, it is actual deaths per million.

[Martian]

I love how so many people throw around this "I have a right" stuff.

So what? So what if you have a right.

Ever hear of the right to bear arms? That one is actually spelled out in the constitution. Now please, someone that claims to have a right to not wear masks show me in the constitution where that is stated.

I will wait here...

I see you are back, did you find that right to not wear a mask enumerated in the constitution? Did you find any law that states you have a right to NOT wear a mask?

I didn't think so.

Okay, now we KNOW you have a right to bear arms, so, take your AR-15 and go get on a commercial airline flight and see what happens.

But, wait you said you have a right to bear arms, to carry guns. What do you mean they arrested you when you tried to board a commercial flight brandishing an AR-15.

You see, rights are NOT absolute.

The conservative SCOTUS Justice Scalia said very clearly any right can be regulated. PERIOD.

Public safety, as determined by the government can override ANY right you claim to have. Even those you make up - see, there is no right to not wear a mask.

It doesn't exist.

But, go ahead, throw a hissy fit, and yell and scream. It won't help, but maybe it will make you feel better.

[blueash]

Is this simple enough? Even a stable genius can understand.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Martian

Public safety, as determined by the government can override ANY right you claim to have. Even those you make up - see, there is no right to not wear a mask.

"as determined by the government"

Therein lies the problem.

Steve

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

You also have a right to look at actual data that shows masks and lockdowns don't actually work all that well

New York locked down and recommended masks: result 2nd highest death total per million in the world.

Sweden did neither and had less than 30% of deaths per million

Attachment 85308

What is it with Sweden? The country as a whole did no better than fair with 542 deaths per million, making them 5th WORST in the world as of 7/15/20. Sweden Tops EU For New Cases But Says Virus Is Slowing
They fare much better in general than US citizens in categories including heart disease, diabetes, HBP & stroke - all supposed contributing factors to COVID deaths. They are also 'happier' than the US, ranking #7 in the world to our #19. With these factors taken into consideration, the Swedes didn't do all that well, it would seem.
Comparing Sweden to NY is also specious, at best. NY population is over 19 million, Sweden (with 5593 COVID deaths) is closer to Michigan (6355 deaths) or North Carolina (1606 deaths) in population at a bit over 10 million.
Coronavirus - Michigan Data
North Carolina Coronavirus Deaths Per Day

[Kenswing]

Wow.. Another mask debate. Who woulda thunk it?

I wonder if this one will change any more minds than the last dozen or so threads covering the same topic.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Wow.. Another mask debate. Who woulda thunk it?

I wonder if this one will change any more minds than the last dozen or so threads covering the same topic.

Nope.

Steve

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by blueash

Is this simple enough? Even a stable genius can understand.

Gee that's really scientific!

DR Fauci on if masks really work

"Masks Don't Work" Dr Fauci tells the truth about masks | #debunkthisfauci - YouTube

Two Doctors and experts in respiratory diseases review the science at CIDRAP

We do, however, have data from laboratory studies that indicate cloth masks or face coverings offer very low filter collection efficiency for the smaller inhalable particles we believe are largely responsible for transmission, particularly from pre- or asymptomatic individuals who are not coughing or sneezing.

The guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) for face coverings initially did not have any citations for studies of cloth material efficiency or fit, but some references have been added since the guidelines were first posted. We reviewed these and found that many employ very crude, non-standardized methods (Anfinrud 2020, Davies 2013, Konda 2020, Aydin 2020, Ma 2020) or are not relevant to cloth face coverings because they evaluate respirators or surgical masks (Leung 2020, Johnson 2009, Green 2012).

We are concerned that many people do not understand the very limited degree of protection a cloth mask or face covering likely offers as source control for people located nearby.

Cloth masks and face coverings likely do not offer the same degree of protection as physical distancing, isolation, or limiting personal contact time.

Will face coverings 'flatten the curve' and stop the pandemic?
We have reviewed the many modeling studies that purport to demonstrate that cloth masks or face coverings have the potential for flattening the curve or significantly decrease the number of cases. These studies fail to recognize several important facts:

The filter performance of a cloth material does not directly translate or represent its performance on an individual, because it neglects the understanding of fit.
Cloth masks or coverings come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and materials and are not made according to any standards.

Transmission is not simply a function of short random interactions between individuals, but rather a function of particle concentration in the air and the time exposed to that concentration.

A cloth mask or face covering does very little to prevent the emission or inhalation of small particles. As discussed in an earlier CIDRAP commentary and more recently by Morawska and Milton (2020) in an open letter to WHO signed by 239 scientists, inhalation of small infectious particles is not only biologically plausible, but the epidemiology supports it as an important mode of transmission for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP

[Lindsyburnsy]

No masks required and Florida is out of control with the virus spreading like wildfire.

Originally Posted by GoodLife

You also have a right to look at actual data that shows masks and lockdowns don't actually work all that well

New York locked down and recommended masks: result 2nd highest death total per million in the world.

Sweden did neither and had less than 30% of deaths per million

Attachment 85308