[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

So, you see no difference between murdering innocent children and drive-by shootings, gang warfare and drug selling gone wrong?

I see the seriousness of all of the killings. Do you? The media decries we have a gun violence problem and the solution is to deprive the Rights of law abiding citizens while going soft on criminals. Criminals don't get a conceal carry permit, they do it illegally. The vast majority don't buy their guns at stores, they buy them on the street.

If you want to be honest in defining a problem we have to recognize that 54% of gun deaths are by suicide. Also, not done with a AR style rifle, by the way.

Let's look at 2020

Gun Deaths, 45,222
Suicide 24,420
Homocide 19,384 (16,000 murders, 3,000 gang related) includes 513 mass shooting victims
Accidental 1,418

Mass Shooting (4 or more people) 513

The false narrative that we have an AR problem should tell everyone it is an agenda driven issue, not a problem solving issue. The AR is one type of rifle. Each year less than 400 people are killed by rifles of all kinds.

Another truth. In 2020, cell phones caused 1.6 million automobile crashes, injuring 424,000 people and killing 3,100. Shouldn't we be discussing some common sense cell phone control? Nobody needs a smart phone, after all.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

best case scenario you put one in the 10 ring, worst case somebody see you with a gun out and thinking you are the shooter they shoot you

Hard for shooter to react when getting shot at when he can’t focus with that many people movement. Beside it will disrupt his aim where he can’t shoot till it safe to stick his head up. I’m betting in most cases the coward will drop his gun rifle and run.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No but if the majority of people who killed a few dozen people were driving exclusively red Chevy Trailblazers, the insurance companies would probably raise their rates on red Chevy Trailblazers, and the police would be more watchful for people driving red Chevy Trailblazers, and the manufacturer would probably be getting pressure from various organizations (including, possibly, the government) to make it more difficult to kill a few dozen people by a single driver.

Instead - some people will suggest we just give more red Chevy Trailblazers to more people, because that'll solve the problem.

Again - that's just SO logical.

/sarcasm

I bet most of the losers has all their money invested in guns and ammo and probably stole mommy/daddy car or walked. Insurance will use any excuse to raise policy rates just like price or gas. so you’re sarcasm doesn’t hole water.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

The reason this is now being pushed is the claim that an 18 yo's brain isn't fully developed. They use the same reasoning to raise the drinking age to 21... Logical, right?

So why do we let them vote at 18? (and there are some who want to lower the voting age to 16!). I can't think of a reason why they would want that, can you? [/sarcasm]

Well before 1950 it was, but now’s days needs to at least 30.

Some want Vote at 16, reason? I can: it starts with in and ends with ed.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

So, you see no difference between murdering innocent children and drive-by shootings, gang warfare and drug selling gone wrong?

There are innocent children killed all the time in drive-by shootings by gangs, some in their home's bedroom! So no, there is no difference. No, I take that back, the difference is 1 or 2 inner city children killed in a drive-by doesn't have the sensationalist, "if it bleeds, it leads" requirement of the media. It's purely a profit driven business decision.

Just violent thugs doing what they do best, committing violent acts with no regard or remorse for who they may injure or kill. Thinking back about the number of news reports I've read or heard about where an innocent child was killed in a drive-by shooting, equals or exceeds the number killed in school shootings. No, I'm not trying to trivialize the deaths of children, it hurts my heart whenever I hear of such things. We have a violence problem in this country that no one is making any effort to address.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Reiver

That is 100% false. You absolutely can own a fully automatic weapon and it isn’t all that difficult.

The requirements for owning a machine gun, or an automatic weapon, in the United States:

Must not be classified as a “prohibited person.”
Be at least 21 years of age to purchase a machine gun from the current owner.
Be a legal resident of the United States.
Be legally eligible to purchase a firearm.
Pass a BATFE background check with a typical process time of 8 to 10 months.
Pay a one-time $200 transfer tax. (You’ll need a stamp for each machine gun.)

And now you're good to go.

Not really automatic weapons are not readily available. 99% are in collectors hands. If want one it will probably have to be custom made or modifications to existing semiautomatic’s, then, there the legal issue of the modified firearm. So, IMO not just not that easy.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Ptmckiou

Actually not true. Let’s take that statement to its extreme, to make my point. If you have two guys armed in a gymnasium full of children, and one has an AR-15, and the other has a 6-shooter, who is going to kill more humans in 60 seconds? Who is going to have to pause often to reload, to give police the opportunity to shoot him? Who’s victims will likely live (even though they were shot) because the holes are addressable by doctors, whereas they other guys bullets explode inside the body creating massive trauma to many organs, including ripping off limbs and decapitating victims?

The CAPABILITY of the gun IS THE ISSUE!!!!

High powered ammunition usually goes straight through unless hits something solid like bone which causes it to shred off course or The projectile been modified to spread out. We’re lower powered ammo tends to bounce around inside body when it hits hard mass.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Hard for shooter to react when getting shot at when he can focus with that many people movement. Beside it will disrupt his aim where he can’t shoot till it safe to stick his head up. I’m betting in most cases the coward will drop his gun rifle and run.

I think you are right but being in civilian dress you could still be confused with the shooter and having another person with a CC take you out , take your chances and do the right thing

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

High powered ammunition usually goes straight through unless hits something solid like bone which causes it to shred off course or The projectile been modified to spread out. We’re lower powered ammo tends to bounce around inside body when it hits hard mass.

Depends on the velocity and construction of the bullet, soft point/hollow point are designed to expand in soft flesh, a rifle generally has a much higher velocity that has a very high rotational rate ,high centrifugal force, hollow point/soft point in soft tissue, that is mostly water that doesn't compress causes the mushrooming effect, that effectively increases the caliber, transferring more energy to the target, the shock wave produced, (miscalled exploding ) propagates rupturing cell structure, I have seen people shot in the head with .22 where the bullet skinned around the persons head, heard of the same thing happening with a solid lead .38 sp

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

I see the seriousness of all of the killings. Do you? The media decries we have a gun violence problem and the solution is to deprive the Rights of law abiding citizens while going soft on criminals. Criminals don't get a conceal carry permit, they do it illegally. The vast majority don't buy their guns at stores, they buy them on the street.
.

Who is trying to deny the rights of law biding citizens?

Hmm, let's see, the shooter at the 4th got his weapons legally, the shooter at Ovalde got his weapons legally. Shall we go through the entire list?

Oh, wait you are just deflecting from mass shootings the topic of this thread to gun violence in general, I understand. It is easier to conflate the two.

[Taurus510]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Not really automatic weapons are not readily available. 99% are in collectors hands. If want one it will probably have to be custom made or modifications to existing semiautomatic’s, then, there the legal issue of the modified firearm. So, IMO not just that easy.

Automatic weapons are illegal unless you hold a federal license. To get that license, you will have to go through an extensive, and I do mean extensive, background check. If you pass that, then your local sheriff will be visiting you for multiple interviews, then if you satisfy him, and if he is willing to personally vouch for your trustworthiness, you will then be required to spend thousands of dollars for the license. At that point you may purchase an automatic weapon. If you modify an existing semi-automatic to become a fully automatic weapon without that license, and you’re discovered, the very least worry you will have is a legal issue of a modified firearm. It will be comparable to causing a fatal accident while DUI and receiving a failure to signal ticket along with everything else.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

And since you feel compelled to make this post political, why is mass shootings have increased under every administration over the past 50 years? On that's right, it doesn't matter.

Breakdown of the family...

Lack of positive male role models in said families...

Mass distribution of Psychotropic drugs to young males...

Refusal to discipline children in schools (and at home)...

Refusal to report instances of violent/anti-social behavior in schools...

Refusal of progressive DAs to prosecute gun crimes...

Any of those matter?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

There are innocent children killed all the time in drive-by shootings by gangs, some in their home's bedroom! So no, there is no difference. No, I take that back, the difference is 1 or 2 inner city children killed in a drive-by doesn't have the sensationalist, "if it bleeds, it leads" requirement of the media. It's purely a profit driven business decision.

Just violent thugs doing what they do best, committing violent acts with no regard or remorse for who they may injure or kill. Thinking back about the number of news reports I've read or heard about where an innocent child was killed in a drive-by shooting, equals or exceeds the number killed in school shootings. No, I'm not trying to trivialize the deaths of children, it hurts my heart whenever I hear of such things. We have a violence problem in this country that no one is making any effort to address.

Seriously, children sitting in school class room is no different than children playing on the street. And how many "mass shootings" have involved children playing on the string solely?

Okay, I give up, since we can not solve EVERYTHING, let's just not solve anything and sit here arguing semantics. I am done with this thread.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

So, you see no difference between murdering innocent children and drive-by shootings, gang warfare and drug selling gone wrong?

How many innocent children are killed in the "drive-by shootings, gang warfare and drug-sales gone wrong"?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Not really automatic weapons are not readily available. 99% are in collectors hands. If want one it will probably have to be custom made or modifications to existing semiautomatic’s, then, there the legal issue of the modified firearm. So, IMO not just that easy.

Not to mention the wheelbarrow full of $$$ you'll need...