[blueash]

My read on the issue, and the version I plan to live by until proven wrong, is that once I achieve immunity I will not catch the virus and if I ingest virus spores(?) then they will be destroyed by my antibodies and not transmitted to others. Do not insist that I am wrong unless you can PROVE otherwise.

Ok, I can prove otherwise. The vaccines in data submitted for their approval did 100% prevent hospitalization and death from Covid. The same data showed, however, that persons who had been fully immunized could catch Covid with clinical symptoms but not severe symptoms. If you are clinically ill, you are contagious. Period.
Can I still get COVID-19 after the vaccine? | wbir.com
SoCal nurse who contracted COVID-19 after vaccination urges others to still get the vaccine - ABC7 Los Angeles
After COVID-19 vaccination: Is it OK to visit with friends and loved ones? - Mayo Clinic

So the 5% who do not get protection are still capable of becoming ill and spreading disease. It is a higher percent with the newer J&J vaccine. This, of course, does not answer the question, can a person who never develops clinical illness catch Covid and spread it. This is not a trivial question as it is well known that subclinical Covid is very common and those persons are contagious. Nothing is known about vaccine protection against sub-clinical disease.

By the way Dr. Fauci is certainly not a political hack. You may not understand infectious disease as he does, having spent his career on the subject. And you certainly show a lack of scientific education when you write about ingesting virus spores. Please don't pontificate on the science involved in the public health recommendations. You can have an uninformed opinion, of course, but there are actual virologists and infectious disease experts who would differ with your conclusions.

[MSchad]

Originally Posted by billethkid

eventually the anti mask/non vaccine folks will be the most vulnerable group left!!

And what will have changed for them from day one till then?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

At this point in the game, I'm mostly continuing to wear a mask inside buildings (except that one time at World of Beer) out of respect for people who want to be vaccinated but aren't eligible yet (or haven't been called for their appointment yet), and who want to start returning to normal but are hesitant and concerned about the risks of the spread of the virus. If they see that most people are respectful of their science-based, practical, logical concerns, it will make them more eager to be out and about, and help make the entire community healthier, and more mentally at ease.

I don't really worry about my own health. Working in a supermarket for most of the pandemic, with people who REFUSED to wear masks and coughed, sneezed, stood up close and personal to me, touched me, etc etc - if I haven't gotten sick yet, I'm not gonna get sick.

But there are people who WANT to return to normal - they want to take the masks off, they want to be vaccinated. Those are the people who I'm wearing the mask for. Out of respect for them.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

At this point in the game, I'm mostly continuing to wear a mask inside buildings (except that one time at World of Beer) out of respect for people who want to be vaccinated but aren't eligible yet (or haven't been called for their appointment yet), and who want to start returning to normal but are hesitant and concerned about the risks of the spread of the virus. If they see that most people are respectful of their science-based, practical, logical concerns, it will make them more eager to be out and about, and help make the entire community healthier, and more mentally at ease.

I don't really worry about my own health. Working in a supermarket for most of the pandemic, with people who REFUSED to wear masks and coughed, sneezed, stood up close and personal to me, touched me, etc etc - if I haven't gotten sick yet, I'm not gonna get sick.

But there are people who WANT to return to normal - they want to take the masks off, they want to be vaccinated. Those are the people who I'm wearing the mask for. Out of respect for them.

How is that respect? They are probably telling themselves, "why bother to get the shots if I have to continue to wear a mask?" No disrespect intended but I find that idea of "respecting" someone else by coddling them to be a major problem in this country. And of course, this is just my opinion. I find it to be condescending and would be insulted if I was on the other end of your "respecting." Why not just be honest and say that you do not trust the vaccine?

[kathyspear]

Originally Posted by drcar

Interesting comments, we live in the USA, and we are REQUIRED to wear a seat belt, sorta the same idea right?

Some people think those laws are unconstitutional.

kathy

[Neils]

Originally Posted by Leadbone1

I have been in Walmart, Publix, Home Depot, restaurants, and none of them have said a word to me about not wearing a mask because legally they cannot. There is no legislatively mandated requirement to wear a mask in the state of Florida. Stores just can’t make up their own rules. They can request, but they cannot demand it.

Wrong. If you are on their property they can make the rules. You comply or trespass

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by blueash

Ok, I can prove otherwise. The vaccines in data submitted for their approval did 100% prevent hospitalization and death from Covid. The same data showed, however, that persons who had been fully immunized could catch Covid with clinical symptoms but not severe symptoms. If you are clinically ill, you are contagious. Period.
Can I still get COVID-19 after the vaccine? | wbir.com
SoCal nurse who contracted COVID-19 after vaccination urges others to still get the vaccine - ABC7 Los Angeles
After COVID-19 vaccination: Is it OK to visit with friends and loved ones? - Mayo Clinic

So the 5% who do not get protection are still capable of becoming ill and spreading disease. It is a higher percent with the newer J&J vaccine. This, of course, does not answer the question, can a person who never develops clinical illness catch Covid and spread it. This is not a trivial question as it is well known that subclinical Covid is very common and those persons are contagious. Nothing is known about vaccine protection against sub-clinical disease.

By the way Dr. Fauci is certainly not a political hack. You may not understand infectious disease as he does, having spent his career on the subject. And you certainly show a lack of scientific education when you write about ingesting virus spores. Please don't pontificate on the science involved in the public health recommendations. You can have an uninformed opinion, of course, but there are actual virologists and infectious disease experts who would differ with your conclusions.

Like I said, there are experts with both views and I prefer the one that sounds more logical. You are correct that I am not an expert, and I admitted that. However, I can also tell the difference between BS and chocolate cake.
I certainly will not use a questionable news media for advice and I will not give much stock to our gov. run or subsidized medical experts.
If you are sincere about researching the validity of the vaccines, then try looking at both sides. I did and will go with private sector professionals.
If I thought that I could still get covid after receiving the vaccination, or even transmit it, then I would not have allowed them to put that crap in me. Tell me why anyone with a lick of sense would get the vaccination if they were told it wouldn't do anything for them. As a matter of fact, that is probably why a whole lot of younger folks refuse to get vaccinated.
But like I said, this is my opinion. I doubt you will consider it, but there are some interesting studies out there by Israeli scientists that are pretty intriguing. They also have an interesting nasal spray that has been 99.99% effective in killing viruses being inhaled through the nose.
But, if it make folks more hysterical, panic driven and dependent on the gov. let's not be positive about the fact that covid is almost a nothing burger now that the death rate from covid is way down. And it is not necessarily from wearing masks. And isn't it funny that the interest is driven by politics? And YES, fauci really IS a political hack.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Neils

Wrong. If you are on their property they can make the rules. You comply or trespass

Maybe true, and yet NO ONE is being ejected from any business.....

[stanley]

Originally Posted by drcar

Interesting comments, we live in the USA, and we are REQUIRED to wear a seat belt, sorta the same idea right?

Not really...wearing seat belts is the law

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

Nothing better than being dead right!

There's only a couple folks that I recall that have gotten out of here alive and that was a long time ago and recorded in the Scriptures.
My suggestion is to do what you feel is right for you, not what someone else wants you to do that you don't even know. Selfish or is it self-survival?

[drcar]

Originally Posted by kathyspear

Some people think those laws are unconstitutional.

kathy

LOL, well some people are wrong, has been challanged

[Inexes@aol.com]

Originally Posted by Leadbone1

Encouraged to see less folks walking around with their faces covered up. Since getting fully vaccinated I personally have stopped wearing a mask in any business establishment, with doctors office being the only exception. Encouraged to see others joining me. I’ve never believed that they stop a virus anyway. I hope that people are done being controlled and will embrace FREEDOM once again. For those who don’t buy into any of this, by all means, you have the freedom to stay home or double mask when in public if you want to. I and many others however are totally done with all this control and paranoia!

It's a question on everyone's minds: What can you do once you're vaccinated?
Dr. Bob Wachter, the chair of UCSF's department of medicine who has become among the most widely quoted coronavirus experts in the country, shared his response to this question.
Wachter wrote on Twitter that after getting vaccinated, he flew to Florida to visit his parents, ages 85 and 90, and wore two masks (not N95) but no face shield on the plane. He hugged his mother, who is vaccinated, but not his father, who is not.
Wachter's response suggests that the vaccine offers new freedom to do things that have been deemed unsafe amid the COVID-19 pandemic, but precautions should still be taken.
If you've recently received a jab or two in your arm, you're probably starting to think about what activities you'd like to do as you return to a less-restricted everyday life. To help you navigate your new life with a vaccination, we've looked to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and experts, including Wachter, for their advice on what you can do safely if you're vaccinated.
One important point to keep in mind when you get vaccinated: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines require two doses, and they're not fully effective, reaching 95% efficacy against illness, until two weeks after the second dose. The single-dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine reaches 85% efficacy against severe disease after two weeks.
On to the questions ...
Q: Can you throw caution to the wind when vaccinated?
A: "No, not caution to the wind," Wachter wrote in an email. "The chances of you getting really sick and dying are essentially zero. But there is still a small chance of getting mild COVID, and some chance (odds still not known) of catching asymptomtic COVID and giving it to someone else. My preference is not to get it period, and definitely not to spread it — particularly if I’m around someone who is vulnerable (like someone over 70). So I am more comfortable doing things (like getting a haircut and flying) but still doing masks and distancing, trying my best to avoid being exposed."
Wachter's stance that you still need to be careful if you're vaccinated is the consensus among experts, and Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, a professor of medicine at UCSF, said this is especially important in an "unregulated environment," such as inside a grocery store, on a bus or in any group situation.
“You’re in a mixed crowd, and we don’t know who has been vaccinated and who is not," said Chin-Hong.
Q: Do I still need to wear a mask in public if I’m vaccinated?
A: The CDC advises that people continue to wear a mask and so do the experts.
"I think you should be wearing a mask in public since you don’t know the immunity status of the people you’ll be in contact with," Wachter advised.
"Yes, you still need to wear a mask," concurred Chin-Hong. "I don’t know if I have protection myself in a large unregulated setting and I still could potentially transmit it to others.”
Q: Do I still need to wear a mask on a run if I’m vaccinated?
A: "Depends how close you’ll come to people, and what the local rules say," Wachter wrote. "But the chances that you’ll catch COVID and that you’ll spread it to others have gone down substantially. So if the rules allow you to run without a mask, and you won’t be coming close to people, I think it’s fine not to wear a mask."
“Yes, you should wear a mask in crowded places," explained Chin-Hong. "If you’re running in Golden Gate Park in an area where there's not a lot of people, you probably don’t need it.”
Q: Can I travel on a plane safely?
A: Vaccinated or not, the CDC still recommends essential travel only, but health officials say that if you do fly, you're much safer with a vaccine than without one.
Wachter said that while he just flew to visit his elderly parents in Florida, he wouldn’t have done it last month. "I wore a double mask and when people around me took off their masks to eat, I kept mine on," he wrote in an email. "The air is filtered on the plane quite well, so I felt that after 10-15 minutes after people had their masks back on, it was safe for me to remove mine to (quickly) grab a bite to eat. I ate and drank very quickly and immediately put back the mask when done."
Chin-Hong agreed that the risk is low on a plane if you're vaccinated and sporting a face covering.
"The vaccine should give you peace of mind that at least you wouldn’t get severe disease and you have a very low chance of getting infected," Chin-Hong said. "I would definitely have a soda on the plane. I might even go into the bathroom but I would keep my mask on.”
Q: If parents are vaccinated and children are not, can the family fly to international destinations?
A: International is trickier due to the concern about carrying worrisome mutations from one country to another — and especially with unvaccinated children.
"The kids are safer than adults (particularly if under 12) but the risk to them isn’t zero, and some of the new variants appear to be harder on kids than the old virus," Wachter said. "I’d wait until everybody is vaccinated — vaccine for kids will probably be ready in the fall."
While Hawaii isn't an overseas destination, it offers a getaway and, Chin-Hong said, "Hawaii is very safe right now." He also advised against countries where variants are a concern. "I probably wouldn’t take the family to South Africa on a safari," he said.
If you do choose to travel abroad, you can expect countries with quarantine and test requirements to likely add post-vaccination guidelines.
Q: Can I visit my elderly parents who are vaccinated?
A: "Yes, in a small group of vaccinated people it’s going to be fine," said Chin-Hong. "You can give them a hug and have dinner with them."
As noted earlier, Wachter just visited his parents in Florida and his mom was vaccinated, but his father was not. "So I’m hugging her and not him — with him, I’m staying more than 6 feet away, keeping fans on, and wearing mask if I have to be closer," he shared.
Wachter explained on Twitter his father wasn't vaccinated as he's mostly confined to bed. His mother waited three and a half hours in a parking lot site, which his father couldn't have done. His father is a veteran and is signed up for a shot at a nearby Veterans Affairs location soon.
Q: Can I eat indoors at a restaurant?
A: "I wouldn’t," Wachter shared. "There’s still a lot of virus around and I’m going to wait until case rates are lower. If you do, make sure waiter is wearing mask, and wear yours until you eat."
“You will have more security in these places with a vaccinated individual and your individual chance of getting infected is very low, but I would still use protection, wear a mask," said Chin-Hong. "You’re protecting the staff. Wait staff are only starting to get vaccinated. The chances are very low. You want to give them the benefit of the doubt. I still personally feel better outdoors, but if there was a big snowstorm and I had to eat indoors I would be OK with it."
Q: Can I have other vaccinated people over for an indoor dinner and sit close and not wear masks?
A: "Yes, a small group of vaccinated people getting together should be safe," said Wachter.
“Yes for a modest crowd, five or six max," specified Chin-Hong. "You want to make sure you know where they are in their vaccination. Generally two weeks after the second dose is the mantra for being safe."
Q: Can I have unvaccinated people over for an indoor dinner and sit close and not wear masks?
A: "I would not," Wachter said. "Again, there is a small but real chance that you can be infected and spread it to one of them — particularly if they’re high risk (older age, maybe they have a pre-existing condition you don’t know about), it could be a problem. Also, if they’re unvaccinated they could infect you — you won’t get super sick but I’d still rather not have COVID, since we’re not sure about the possibility of long-term problems from even asymptomatic infection (though it seems unlikely). Anyway, I wouldn’t risk it. Outdoors should be fine."
Chin-Hong agree it's wise to skip indoor gatherings, no matter how small, with unvaccinated friends.
“If unvaccinated people are visiting me, I’d still want to do it outside and be safe," he said. "Not only might I give it to them, I would worry they might give it to each other."
Q: Can I throw a birthday party at my house with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated people?
A: The CDC advises against gathering in large groups event if you're vaccinated, and so do both Chin-Hong and Wachter. "Birthday parties are exciting, and you’d be singing, yelping in joy and having a lot of aerosols in an indoor place," Chin-Hong said. "That would be scary. Keep it outside and do social distance and have the extra protection of a mask.”
Wachter added that if everyone at the party were fully vaccinated, it should be OK, but "mixture is risky if you’re inside, less so if outside."

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Maybe true, and yet NO ONE is being ejected from any business.....

Like the medical providers there are businesses in TV that require one to wear a mask.....you are given a choice of
> wear your mask
>they will provide you a mask
>you may leave

They can and are doing so.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Like the medical providers there are businesses in TV that require one to wear a mask.....you are given a choice of
> wear your mask
>they will provide you a mask
>you may leave

They can and are doing so.

Interesting. Haven't seen any yet, and I also haven't been limited in my shopping. However, I respect their signs if posted and wear a mask when they display the request.

Not going to concern myself with it in a few days as I will be virus free and protected without a mask. I will still wash my hands frequently, as it is an old habit from living overseas.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Byte1

How is that respect? They are probably telling themselves, "why bother to get the shots if I have to continue to wear a mask?" No disrespect intended but I find that idea of "respecting" someone else by coddling them to be a major problem in this country. And of course, this is just my opinion. I find it to be condescending and would be insulted if I was on the other end of your "respecting." Why not just be honest and say that you do not trust the vaccine?

I do trust the vaccine. I'm looking forward to the day I'm eligible to get it. As are millions of people in Florida, and billions around the world. But we're not even close to "most" people being vaccinated yet. Many of us aren't eligible to get it yet. Many are eligible, and are still waiting for their appointments.

So for those of us who choose to not isolate ourselves, but have a practical, scientifically-based, reasonable concern (not panic) about being out in public while vulnerable to a deadly virus, I am continuing to mask when I'm inside other peoples' buildings. Reducing the anxiety that MANY people have when they go out, at next to zero inconvenience or expense to ourselves, is the humane thing to do.