[Bucco]

Originally Posted by stanley

We wouldn't expect anything less from you.

Murdoch does not hide his goals and aims.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MandoMan

Just as the U.S. and other countries spends a lot of money identifying the strains of the flu most likely to make people sick here in the next few months so this year’s flu vaccine can be made, so they also pay for studies of possible strains of other or similar organisms that might be a problem. Such as the Ebola virus. Forewarned is forearmed. That research can’t be done without gathering the animals and running the tests. One hope is that if there is ever a breakout of some new disease in humans, or chickens, or whatever, the organism will have already been identified, which helps virologists. That research is best done in countries where the animals live. It’s hard to gather hundreds of bats in China and bring them here for testing, and it is also much more expensive than working with a lab in China. So mostly this is about building a database and keeping samples in the freezers. This also involves constantly searching for mutations that might be dangerous and trying to anticipate what mutations might be forthcoming.

Here is a paragraph from the New York Post article you link to that is from the NIH clarifying what must happen if a deadlier variant is found:

I believe that I read that here in the US, some cats, dogs, and even a tiger in a zoo (I think San Diego) have DEVELOPED CV. So, if it can cross species lines from human to lower mammals - it IS likely that it could go from lower species to human.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bob.Betty

the fact of the matter is whatever side of the fence you are on there are articles to support your views. And it is highly unlikely that you are going to change anyone's mind.

People change their minds often. It often depends on the way their friends feel, their social circle. Change is part of life - fashion changes. If people's minds never changed, we would still be spinning "hula hoops" from the 1950s - as an obscure example.

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Who is '''patient zero''' in the coronavirus outbreak? - BBC Future

Various organizations have looked for the COVID-19 "patient zero".

very interesting. thx for sharing

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by stanley

Hmmmm....don't know why, but Joseph Goebbels comes to mind

At times I think there is a differential between how often a persons posts and how emphatic the post and how to weigh the information given, we all have opinions some more strongly held than others , and the stronger the opinions we hold the more they need to be self examined carefully

[lkagele]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know

This has a pretty thorough discussion of this topic.

I've read that article and re-read it today. On the surface it looks pretty good and gives arguments both ways and concludes there isn't enough info one way or the other. There are some issues with it however.

I do wish it had addressed information provided by Dr. Li-Meng Yan. She's the Chinese virologist that defected to the US. She claims without a doubt the virus was man made AND released intentionally. Her information certainly should have been included in an article such as this one.

Also, there are studies out claiming the genome sequencing of this virus has never been seen occurring naturally in any other covid viruses. Your article relies on Kristen Anderson to refute those claims. She, however, is somewhat suspect.

Here's what she initially wrote about the virus back in January, 2020:

"One has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some
of the features (potentially) look engineered . . . . Eddie [Holmes],
Bob [Garry], Mike [Ferguson] and myself all find the genome
inconsistent with evolutionary theory."

3 days later AFTER a conference call with Fauci she states:

"The main crackpot theories going around at the moment relate to
this virus being somehow engineered . . . and that is demonstrably
not the case."

No one has come up with any additional studies or work she did justifying the change in her findings.

I still lean towards man made. Released intentionally or not? Still up in the air but I look at what country has benefitted the most economically. I also look at what country benefits the most politically from having other countries in upheaval and turmoil due to severe in-fighting. I think the answer points to only source.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bucco

On this forum, so many have been taught, and really believe that creating villains, attacking them personally will lead to power.

Guess it will take no more villains and anyone to hate to stop that. It has certainly pushed our country to the back over the past years. No ideas for the country, but lots of proven unsubstantiated accusations and hate does not make for growth of our country.

All the great Dictators in world History have gained personal power by using weaker groups to step on. Intensifying the search for the "origins" of Covid 19 allows power to accumulate to individuals and small groups by blaming China - create a "bogeyman" and then squash them - thus making yourself WONDERFUL and BLAMELESS!

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

And I love that the NY Post was used as a reliable source.

This story was broken by The Intercept, who filed the FOIA that resulted in release of these documents. The Intercept is definitely a left leaning organization.

The reason I posted link to NY Post is because they had an actual screenshot of one of the relevant parts of the documents.

The third link I posted was to Washington Post article, which has info on how gain of function research controls have been subverted and weakened.

So the original scoop was delivered by a left leaning website with some principals, more info given by left leaning WAPO, and you choose to discount the whole story because of a link to NY Post that had actual screenshot of one of the documents.

[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

Why is the above message of misdirected hate allowed on these pages?

And I love that the NY Post was used as a reliable source.

I think I'm done with Talk otv.

Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to cover their tracks, new study claims | Daily Mail Online
Covid was most likely created in a lab. Here is why.

[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

This story was broken by The Intercept, who filed the FOIA that resulted in release of these documents. The Intercept is definitely a left leaning organization.

The reason I posted link to NY Post is because they had an actual screenshot of one of the relevant parts of the documents.

The third link I posted was to Washington Post article, which has info on how gain of function research controls have been subverted and weakened.

So the original scoop was delivered by a left leaning website with some principals, more info given by left leaning WAPO, and you choose to discount the whole story because of a link to NY Post that had actual screenshot of one of the documents.

But as an alt left communist liberal democrat I do not like the facts presented by the NYPost. I am sorry but I must say, since it shows I am biased, I must say that the paper is not credible.

[SkBlogW]

Stop with the political BS please, it has no place in this thread. If you would like to understand the issues, you might start with this guy, who has read all 200 pages of the FOIA documents and is eminently qualified to provide expert comments.

Molecular biologist Dr. Richard H. Ebright, PhD

Board of Governors Professor of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Rutgers University, Dr. Richard H. Ebright, PhD, is also Laboratory Director at the Waksman Institute of Microbiology and serves as project leader on two National Institutes of Health research grants.

Dr. Richard Ebright received his AB in Biology and his PhD in Microbiology and Molecular Genetics from Harvard University. He has more than one hundred sixty publications and more than forty issued and pending patents. He is member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and a Fellow of the American Association for Advancement of Science, the American Academy of Microbiology, and the Infectious Diseases Society of America.

I have been reading articles by Dr Ebright and following his twitter account for over a year, and have seen zero evidence of political bias. He is a true scientist in every respect.

First, a Twitter thread by Dr Enbright after he read the documents. Read all his comments at link below.


Richard H. Ebright
@R_H_Ebright
·
Sep 6
The documents make it clear that assertions by the NIH Director, Francis Collins, and the NIAID Director, Anthony Fauci, that the NIH did not support gain-of-function research or potential pandemic pathogen enhancement at WIV are untruthful.

https://mobile.twitter.com/R_H_Ebrig...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Second, an interview of Dr Ebright from March 26, 2021

Excerpts:

There are three lines of circumstantial evidence that are worth noting.

First, the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, a city of 11 million persons that does not contain horseshoe-bat colonies, that is tens of kilometers
from, and that is outside the flight range of, the nearest known horseshoe-bat colonies. Furthermore, the outbreak occurred at a time of year when horseshoe bats are in hibernation and do not leave colonies.

Second, the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, on the doorstep of the laboratory that conducts the world’s largest research project on horseshoe bat viruses, that has the world’s largest collection of horseshoe-bat viruses, and that possessed and worked with the world’s closest sequenced relative of the outbreak virus. The laboratory actively searched for new horseshoe-bat viruses in horseshoe-bat colonies in caves in remote rural areas in Yunnan province, brought those new horseshoe-bat viruses to Wuhan, and then mass-produced, genetically manipulated, and studied those new horseshoe-bat viruses, year-round, inside Wuhan.

Third, the bat-SARS-related-coronavirus projects at the Wuhan Institute of Virology used personal protective equipment (usually just gloves; sometimes not even gloves) and biosafety standards (usually just biosafety level 2) that would pose very high risk of infection of field-collection, field-survey, or laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2.

But Dr. Ralph Baric, who is considered the US leading expert in coronavirus, so he probably is the world one, says that is possible to engineer a virus in a lab without leaving a trace of the manipulation.

The fact that the genome sequence of this virus shows no signatures of human manipulation rules out the kinds of gain-of-function (GoF) research that leave signatures. But this does not rule out kinds of GoF research that do not leave signatures

An interview with Richard Ebright: The WHO investigation members were 'participants in disinformation'

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I believe that I read that here in the US, some cats, dogs, and even a tiger in a zoo (I think San Diego) have DEVELOPED CV. So, if it can cross species lines from human to lower mammals - it IS likely that it could go from lower species to human.

No, that's not the way it works. Although many people nowadays think their pets are human but they're not.

Originally Posted by lkagele

I've read that article and re-read it today. On the surface it looks pretty good and gives arguments both ways and concludes there isn't enough info one way or the other. There are some issues with it however.

I do wish it had addressed information provided by Dr. Li-Meng Yan. She's the Chinese virologist that defected to the US. She claims without a doubt the virus was man made AND released intentionally. Her information certainly should have been included in an article such as this one.

Also, there are studies out claiming the genome sequencing of this virus has never been seen occurring naturally in any other covid viruses. Your article relies on Kristen Anderson to refute those claims. She, however, is somewhat suspect.

Here's what she initially wrote about the virus back in January, 2020:

"One has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some
of the features (potentially) look engineered . . . . Eddie [Holmes],
Bob [Garry], Mike [Ferguson] and myself all find the genome
inconsistent with evolutionary theory."

3 days later AFTER a conference call with Fauci she states:

"The main crackpot theories going around at the moment relate to
this virus being somehow engineered . . . and that is demonstrably
not the case."

No one has come up with any additional studies or work she did justifying the change in her findings.

I still lean towards man made. Released intentionally or not? Still up in the air but I look at what country has benefitted the most economically. I also look at what country benefits the most politically from having other countries in upheaval and turmoil due to severe in-fighting. I think the answer points to only source.

Well stated. I believe she and other experts will be called to testify when a full investigation is undertaken in two years.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by I'm Popeye!

How is this allowed on this SO CALL NO POLITICS site!
Goes to show which way they stand on monitoring this board, same with before the elections. They would let some posts get by while other post leaning the other way did not.
I say the word SENILE directed at a political person, and I get a 1 point bad demerit, with message deleted and threatening to kick me off the board!
If you don't see Popeye again is because they kicked me out after they read this message. what a joke!

Yes, in the short time I've been a poster on this forum I've sensed a "leaning".

The reality is this: I had to pay $50,000 more for my small house in TV than I would have 2 or 3 months before, and why? Because, as my realtor told me, there was a mass exodus in the spring of residents from certain states, desperate to avoid the encroaching COVID mandates, corrosive politics, high taxes (and more to come!) and legislation that had made their states uninhabitable, over-priced basket cases. The realtor told me they'd never seen anything like it, the desperation to get out of said states in a hurry. I don't think those with certain leanings would be clawing tooth and nail to live in Gov. DeSantis' Florida. I'd like to see this forum reflect the reality of TV a little more instead of punishing those who wish to speak their mind freely.

[Taltarzac725]

Li-Meng Yan - Wikipedia

She looks like a hack scientist. She was used for political ends and and very willingly it looks like. She also seems to have little integrity and her scientific work has a very poor reputation.