[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Lots of movies feature gay/lesbian people. They are many gay/lesbians in Hollywood.

:BigApplau se:

This is a post with which I fully agree!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Golden Rule? If someone invaded your home, how would you treat them? Do they expect to be treated any different than if you invaded their home, or someone else's home? How would you EXPECT to be treated if you broke into their home? We have laws and rules. Even expectations of decency. It seems to me that one does not need to be a lawyer to understand the points of common sense, decency, and NORMAL behavior. Christians should not need to argue the Bible with non-believers to prove a point. If those folks insist on attempting to find vulnerability in Christians by quoting misused phrases from the Bible, it means that they do not have a winning argument and have to resort to more perversion, perversion of beliefs that they themselves do not believe or understand. Christians are Tolerant when they do not condone. But, even GOD's tolerance is limited, as the example of the Great Flood proves. Of course, the non-believer does not believe in this historical fact or of the Christian DEITY.

Which expectations of decency? As a Jewish woman, "decency" means both men AND women covering themselves modestly. Long sleeves, no shorts, women don't wear pants at all, dresses and skirts only. Men wear a yarmulke and married women wear wigs or scarves that cover their hair (or shaved scalps). Men don't touch women at all in public, married couples must not sleep in the same bed or touch for the window of time that a woman enters and exits her menstrual cycle.

What's the matter - that's too much to expect? According to whom? Who died and made you boss of all things decent?

Meanwhile back in modern non-Chassidic America - gays and lesbians exist. So do transgenders, non-binaries, and straight males and females who are into kinky sexual fetishes that have nothing to do with gender or sexual identity. Men have been wearing gowns and robes since before Rome was built, and Shakespeare plays were performed by men who played both male AND female parts, because women weren't permitted to perform in plays at the time. So there were lots of men in drag. Some of them were gay. Most of them were straight.

What's "decent" to you might be "stupid" to me. What's decent to me might be ungodly to you. But - I don't believe in your god, so I don't really care what you think is ungodly. It doesn't apply to me.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I am not normalizing transexuals. They are a very small number of the population but get all kinds of press. Usually from the far right. I just don't agree with making people targets of hate because they do not like how these people feel about their bodies.

They get all kinds of press because they TRY to get all kinds of press...

They are probably THE most vocal identity group put there right now...

But sure, keep repeating your "targets of hate" mantra... I'm sure you believe it...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Lots of movies feature gay/lesbian people. They are many gay/lesbians in Hollywood.

And what's your point?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Who is trying to tell you anything? They have their clothing needs too. And have some products now designed for them.

And parents can make up their own minds about what they want their children to see and how to explain various nothing burgers to them.

Not when they show up in schools, they don't...

Oh wait, if they complain they are called "terrorists" by the DOJ...

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Which expectations of decency? As a Jewish woman, "decency" means both men AND women covering themselves modestly. Long sleeves, no shorts, women don't wear pants at all, dresses and skirts only. Men wear a yarmulke and married women wear wigs or scarves that cover their hair (or shaved scalps). Men don't touch women at all in public, married couples must not sleep in the same bed or touch for the window of time that a woman enters and exits her menstrual cycle.

What's the matter - that's too much to expect? According to whom? Who died and made you boss of all things decent?

Meanwhile back in modern non-Chassidic America - gays and lesbians exist. So do transgenders, non-binaries, and straight males and females who are into kinky sexual fetishes that have nothing to do with gender or sexual identity. Men have been wearing gowns and robes since before Rome was built, and Shakespeare plays were performed by men who played both male AND female parts, because women weren't permitted to perform in plays at the time. So there were lots of men in drag. Some of them were gay. Most of them were straight.

What's "decent" to you might be "stupid" to me. What's decent to me might be ungodly to you. But - I don't believe in your god, so I don't really care what you think is ungodly. It doesn't apply to me.

Nicely put. And the central tenet of Christianity is love one's neighbor which is found many places in the recorded words of Jesus Christ. It does not matter what race, creed, or sexual orientation they have.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Which expectations of decency? As a Jewish woman, "decency" means both men AND women covering themselves modestly. Long sleeves, no shorts, women don't wear pants at all, dresses and skirts only. Men wear a yarmulke and married women wear wigs or scarves that cover their hair (or shaved scalps). Men don't touch women at all in public, married couples must not sleep in the same bed or touch for the window of time that a woman enters and exits her menstrual cycle.

What's the matter - that's too much to expect? According to whom? Who died and made you boss of all things decent?

Gimme' a break... You don't believe a word of that. You're citing Hassidic Jews, of which you most certainly are not one.

Meanwhile back in modern non-Chassidic America - gays and lesbians exist. So do transgenders, non-binaries, and straight males and females who are into kinky sexual fetishes that have nothing to do with gender or sexual identity. Men have been wearing gowns and robes since before Rome was built, and Shakespeare plays were performed by men who played both male AND female parts, because women weren't permitted to perform in plays at the time. So there were lots of men in drag. Some of them were gay. Most of them were straight.

All of which is completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand.

What's "decent" to you might be "stupid" to me. What's decent to me might be ungodly to you. But - I don't believe in your god, so I don't really care what you think is ungodly. It doesn't apply to me.

Then stop claiming you're a Jew... You may be one ethnically, but you're not one culturally, nor religiously...

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I am not normalizing transexuals. They are a very small number of the population but get all kinds of press. Usually from the far right. I just don't agree with making people targets of hate because they do not like how these people feel about their bodies.

Why is that small number of people with profound maladjustments getting so much attention ? Why the pop culture effort to normalize and seemingly encourage it. If you take issue with this sociological drift into phantasy you are assumed to be a bigot, a hater, someone motivated by malice , lacking in compassion . Apparently there are many people with their own issues who are comforted by this normalization

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Why is that small number of people with profound maladjustments getting so much attention ? Why the pop culture effort to normalize and seemingly encourage it. If you take issue with this sociological drift into phantasy you are assumed to be a bigot, a hater, someone motivated by malice , lacking in compassion . Apparently there are many people with their own issues who are comforted by this normalization

Reasoning looks like an attack on the person making the argument. And is over simplification of a complicated subject.
"Profound maladjustment". More spreading of hate towards a very small group of people. Who in some societies were easily just accepted by others.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Reasoning looks like an attack on the person making the argument. And is over simplification of a complicated subject.
"Profound maladjustment". More spreading of hate towards a very small group of people. Who in some societies were easily just accepted by others.

Facts are not an attack, you make my case that to disagree there must be some negative aspect of one's character, Sexual reproduction has been around what millions if not billions of years, every living thing has two basic imperatives survive and reproduce , what ever confusion about what your biology is works against your reproductive success, the genetic difference make for profound and pervasive differences, physically, physiologically, as well as mentally, where is my error in fact or logic?

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Facts are not an attack, you make my case that to disagree there must be some negative aspect of one's character, Sexual reproduction has been around what millions if not billions of years, every living thing has two basic imperatives survive and reproduce , what ever confusion about what your biology is works against your reproductive success, the genetic difference make for profound and pervasive differences, physically, physiologically, as well as mentally, where is my error in fact or logic?

You should research homosexuality in Ancient Greece. It was the norm. And cross dressing is found in many cultures and not seen as aberrant.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Which expectations of decency? As a Jewish woman, "decency" means both men AND women covering themselves modestly. Long sleeves, no shorts, women don't wear pants at all, dresses and skirts only. Men wear a yarmulke and married women wear wigs or scarves that cover their hair (or shaved scalps). Men don't touch women at all in public, married couples must not sleep in the same bed or touch for the window of time that a woman enters and exits her menstrual cycle.

What's the matter - that's too much to expect? According to whom? Who died and made you boss of all things decent?

Meanwhile back in modern non-Chassidic America - gays and lesbians exist. So do transgenders, non-binaries, and straight males and females who are into kinky sexual fetishes that have nothing to do with gender or sexual identity. Men have been wearing gowns and robes since before Rome was built, and Shakespeare plays were performed by men who played both male AND female parts, because women weren't permitted to perform in plays at the time. So there were lots of men in drag. Some of them were gay. Most of them were straight.

What's "decent" to you might be "stupid" to me. What's decent to me might be ungodly to you. But - I don't believe in your god, so I don't really care what you think is ungodly. It doesn't apply to me.

Yes, and Adam and Eve ran around naked until they ate the forbidden fruit and then covered their privates with a fig leaf. Did you have a point? Some folks believe that just because someone does something idiotic, it's humorous or quaint. And some of us (the majority) feel that the same actions are obscene and nasty, abnormal and mentally disturbed, etc.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

You should research homosexuality in Ancient Greece. It was the norm. And cross dressing is found in many cultures and not seen as aberrant.

No, it was not the "norm" in Greece. The elite got away with it, but the majority did not find it the "norm." Perhaps there are SOME cultures that accept cross dressing as not being "aberrant" but MOST cultures do find it abnormal. Some cultures cut the hand off of thieves, but we don't. Some cultures find it an insult to sit with your legs crossed and the bottom of your shoe facing them. To get to the point, American majority believes in certain standards and we care enough for our children that we attempt to protect them from those deviants that we deem dangerous. I consider abnormal mental health to be a threat to children's minds that are not fully developed yet.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Byte1

No, it was not the "norm" in Greece. The elite got away with it, but the majority did not find it the "norm." Perhaps there are SOME cultures that accept cross dressing as not being "aberrant" but MOST cultures do find it abnormal. Some cultures cut the hand off of thieves, but we don't. Some cultures find it an insult to sit with your legs crossed and the bottom of your shoe facing them. To get to the point, American majority believes in certain standards and we care enough for our children that we attempt to protect them from those deviants that we deem dangerous. I consider abnormal mental health to be a threat to children's minds that are not fully developed yet.

Wrong. How ancient Greeks viewed pederasty and homosexuality - Big Think

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

You should research homosexuality in Ancient Greece. It was the norm. And cross dressing is found in many cultures and not seen as aberrant.

You must have me confused with someone else, this has nothing to do with my post