[GoPacers]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Not sure I understand your question as I stated in the OP that I don't see widespread police brutality in the numbers. The race baiters will say that police arrest and hassle blacks more, and my response is sure, blacks commit a large percentage of crimes so of course they are going to interact with police more often. I see racism and a crime problem in the black on white violence number, which is a much bigger problem than police brutality.

Let's take a look at what police brutality actually is:

"Police brutality or police violence is legally defined as a civil rights violation where officers exercise undue or excessive force against a subject. This includes, but is not limited to, physical or verbal harassment, physical or mental injury, property damage, and death."

You presented a series of data points to substantiate that police brutality is not that significant of a problem.

• Crime rates for white on black or black on white have nothing to do with police brutality.
  
• The number of police officers killed has nothing to do with police brutality.
  
• The number of people killed during the protests has nothing to do with police brutality.

Quantifying police brutality is actually very difficult. There are not any obvious and easy measures as each interaction between an officer and a civilian is somewhat unique and dependent on the circumstances of the interaction. In addition, the reporting is often dependent on the honesty/integrity of the officer(s) involved. This is one of the main reasons for bodycams. As we've seen in the last few weeks, if not for cameras many interactions between police and civilians would have been mistakenly reported (blatant lying).

Typical measures for police brutality attempt to measure the uses of force in various situations to see if a jurisdiction (or officers) have a greater prevelance to use various tactics in situations where those tactics may not have been warranted.

Here is a link to a very long and detailed article on the use of force by police in six different districts.

Measuring the Amount of Force Used By and Against the Police in Six Jurisdictions

Bottom line, the data you referenced has little to nothing to do with validating that police brutality does/does not exist. To your original post - I would therefore agree that you would see little evidence of police brutality in the numbers since the numbers quoted are random facts that are unrelated to police brutality.

However, my point is that substantiating that police brutality doesn't exist or is not the problem as you state is not a conclusion that can be drawn from the numbers proffered.

[coalminer]

Obviously you are seeing a lot of problems. That dosent mean we should ignore the fact that our tax dollars are paying thugs in some cases and giving good honest policemen a bad name.

[kenoc7]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.

[GoPacers]

Originally Posted by coalminer

Obviously you are seeing a lot of problems. That dosent mean we should ignore the fact that our tax dollars are paying thugs in some cases and giving good honest policemen a bad name.

BINGO! How many millions of dollars has Derek Chauvin cost this country with his actions? The Floyd family will likely get a huge settlment. The protests and demonstrations have cost municipality and state governments millions of dollars. Business owners and insurance companies will be out millions to rebuild looted buildings.

How many honest policemen now have to defend themselves against unwarranted attacks from civilians and local governments?

Derek Chauvin was on the taxpayer funded payroll for years. The real question is how did that happen and how do we ensure we weed out all the rest of the Derek Chauvins in the future?

[Ashley from UK]

So parking your numbers to one side, the result has crossed the pond and we have seen vandals in the UK piggyback. But the cause is also flawed.

In the UK we see people bemoaning slavery, but a question, how many actually know anything about the roots of slavery? Yes it was terrible that the Europeans took people from Africa, but they were bought from their own people. Slavery was not a white invention. Slaves were created to pay debts or family used as security for a debt. The Europeans merely bought these debts and security, and slaves were given the opportunity to buy their freedom. OK I accept I am also on some dodgy ground here because the whole system was seriously abused, Europeans were guilty of creating the breading ground that resulted in Africans enslaving their own people and selling them to the Europeans so I don't for one second say whites hands are clean. But let us also consider the descendants. No matter how bad some may say they feel or are treated today, are they any worse in USA or UK than if they had stayed in Africa with the troubles the continent suffers, droughts, infighting. etc. etc.

My personal experience is that anyone who has to refer to colour is using it as an excuse for lack of ability or willingness to try and better themselves. So few of us are born with a silver spoon but hard work and sacrifice and a dash of luck and we succeed in whatever we do, whether music, sport, school, work, military, nursing. You name it hard work is the only thing that matters, the only thing that will open or close doors... not the colour of your skin.

I will conclude with Mohamad Ali who said something along the lines of before we talk about racism and WoB lets sort ourselves out as most crime is BoB....

[diamond2005]

Originally Posted by 600th Photo Sq

I did a Google search on this very subject and the stats do not add up. I researched it all ways and the black vs white doesn't add up that blacks are being singled out.

Even % wise all this is hyped up. I took the time to research this and it is false reporting.

The person who killed George Floyd has been arrested and so he should be, I have watched all of the videos.

However the aftermath played into the hands of BLM, and Antifa, who were waiting for the right opportunity and they did a masterful job in creating violence's.

So go ahead who fall for the lies do your homework like I did. Really really, sad what has happened.

It will unfortunately change our Country.

The organizers that I mentioned were just waiting for the opportunity and they pulled it off.

Better wake up.

There are well organized factions who want to bring the USA down.

Give me some numbers, if you did your research. Surely, you did not just take someone’s word for what you are saying. Numbers, numbers!

[Girlcopper]

Originally Posted by Stuart Zaikov

Thanks for the post, but the usual suspects will be coming and criticizing you for your post.

So true. Everyone needs to look at the statistics. More blacks are killed by blacks. There is major talk about disbanding police depts and some are already in the works. Better start thinking how youre going to protect yourself, your property and family.

[rlcooper70]

Sir ... no offense ... those numbers you present are not good .... why are you okay with "unarmed" black and white people being killed by police? Isn't the point of those numbers really to say "we can do better America"? Should we stand up and just say "do better"?

Are the police unions at fault for protecting people they know to be racist?

Of course we can do better .... for heaven's sake ... let's just say it.

[Viperguy]

The truth hurts and will never be honestly reported by the media. The PC culture has taken over. Stand by for more and more next year.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by kenoc7

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.

Have you watched the Tony Timpa video?

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Girlcopper

So true. Everyone needs to look at the statistics. More blacks are killed by blacks. There is major talk about disbanding police depts and some are already in the works. Better start thinking how youre going to protect yourself, your property and family.

Lets have community policing in Minneapolis. Perhaps the looters will help out.

What will happen is if businesses cannot make money they will shut their doors and take their jobs with them.

People will not feel safe and will leave the city in droves.

And than the looters in charge will blame everyone else for being racist and causing the problem in the first place.

[Travelingal702]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but if people are successful in getting cities to defund the police, what does that mean? Does it mean no more police presence in that city? Who will "police" the thieves, the domestic batterers, the speeders, etc.?

[WesMan]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

1 George Floyd killed by Police during arrest 2020

9 Unarmed blacks killed by police 2019

18 People killed during George Floyd protests

19 Unarmed whites killed by police 2019

48 Police officers killed on duty 2019

59,777 White on Black violent acts committed 2018

547,948 Black on White violent acts committed 2018

I am not seeing police brutality as the problem here.

You are Correct

[Warren]

Originally Posted by kenoc7

If you can't see you haven't watched Floyd's murder or the 75 yea- old in Buffalo or the two college kids in Atalanta and the list could go on and on. Open your eyes.

You don't go deep enough on this "racism" issue. It is not about the color of one's skin, it about the quality and equality of education. The problem goes back to when, in many cases, the color of your skin or your sex determined if and to what extent your were educated. In this country and many other countries, the "rising tide" has not raised all boats. Poorly educated parents create a pathway for poorly educated children. it is a vicious circle. I thank god, every day, for the education my parents "made" me get. Until we solve the education parity problem nothing changes. There are three basic needs: food, clothing and shelter. If you can't earn it then you get it any way you can. You steal it, or expect "someone" to provide it for you. Bottom line here is: the "haves" do not want to associate with the "have nots". Nothing to do with the color of their skin.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by GoPacers

Let's take a look at what police brutality actually is:

"Police brutality or police violence is legally defined as a civil rights violation where officers exercise undue or excessive force against a subject. This includes, but is not limited to, physical or verbal harassment, physical or mental injury, property damage, and death."

You presented a series of data points to substantiate that police brutality is not that significant of a problem.

• Crime rates for white on black or black on white have nothing to do with police brutality.
  
• The number of police officers killed has nothing to do with police brutality.
  
• The number of people killed during the protests has nothing to do with police brutality.

Quantifying police brutality is actually very difficult. There are not any obvious and easy measures as each interaction between an officer and a civilian is somewhat unique and dependent on the circumstances of the interaction. In addition, the reporting is often dependent on the honesty/integrity of the officer(s) involved. This is one of the main reasons for bodycams. As we've seen in the last few weeks, if not for cameras many interactions between police and civilians would have been mistakenly reported (blatant lying).

Typical measures for police brutality attempt to measure the uses of force in various situations to see if a jurisdiction (or officers) have a greater prevelance to use various tactics in situations where those tactics may not have been warranted.

Here is a link to a very long and detailed article on the use of force by police in six different districts.

Measuring the Amount of Force Used By and Against the Police in Six Jurisdictions

Bottom line, the data you referenced has little to nothing to do with validating that police brutality does/does not exist. To your original post - I would therefore agree that you would see little evidence of police brutality in the numbers since the numbers quoted are random facts that are unrelated to police brutality.

However, my point is that substantiating that police brutality doesn't exist or is not the problem as you state is not a conclusion that can be drawn from the numbers proffered.

While those who will stick with their made up definition of police brutality/excessive force will never change their minds, as you so aptly point out...it CAN'T be judged solely by deaths.

Thanks for trying though.