[oneclickplus]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

And that's why we listen to the science, and that's the whole reason for the posts... too many people talk, too few actually research and read the facts.

When I post, I send the links and substantiation for the comments.

Well, let me augment the statement then:

Can't trust Big Pharma or the government or scientists drawing paychecks from either of them.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

The statement above ... no matter who is making it ... is what I reject. It is stated as if it is fact but it is not. With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

The shot (not a vaccine) does not prevent infection; it only (possibly) protects from getting sick after infection. Everyone, everywhere will be exposed / infected at some time, somewhere. I choose to trust my unaltered immune system. And it is my choice.

You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust. Good luck.

"I personally judge the risk ...."
AND
"You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust."

I will trust the work of scientists and researchers around the world based on studies and data analysis before I trust someone's personal judgment based on ....what? I was going to say misinformation and fear but you've provided absolutely nothing, not even links to debunked sources, to show what you base your assertions on.

[JustRita]

Why did the government feel it was necessary to absolve vaccine companies from legal ramifications?

[glsatterlee]

I agree? And why has 50% of the first responders decided not to be vaccinated. I have had the Covid already, and I have the antibodies in my blood to fight the Covid. I give blood, and they would like for me to give even more.

[tuccillo]

You are certainly entitled to express your opinions but if you come to a public forum with incorrect numbers you will be called out. Regarding the number of "excess deaths" from the start of the pandemic to now, the number is approximately 500K and reflects the increase in the number of deaths either directly or indirectly from COVID-19. Go to the CDC website and check their data. The number of deaths per year is a remarkably consistent number. "Excess deaths" is the increase in the number of deaths over what would be expected. It isn't impacted by how death is recorded on death certificates.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Originally Posted by merrymini

Some people posting here “believe the science.” In fact, the science frequently is inconclusive or directly opposed to other science, much like economists and climate control “geniuses.” You choose to believe you did the right thing by taking inoculations and falsely conclude that people who do not will die or are “wrong” not to take or are antivaxxers. In fact, many people want to consider their options before rolling with the masses. The death number of 2019 and 2020 are about 50,000 different (50,000 more deaths in 2020) not 500,000 different, indicating 500,000 MORE people did NOT DIE OF THE CHINESE VIRUS. The virus has been a useful political, control and money tool and continues to be so since big pharm is now coming out with a booster shot. Get in line.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JustRita

Why did the government feel it was necessary to absolve vaccine companies from legal ramifications?

Probably because otherwise the companies would not have released the vaccines before many more years of studies. While we waited those years for the studies, tens of thousands more would have died.

[Larchap49]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

Preclinical work on therapeutic mRNA goes back at least to 1990, 20 years ago...

Want to Know More About mRNA Before Your COVID Jab? | MedPage Today

Never Been Done Before?

While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.

mRNA can target tumor-associated antigens expressed mainly by cancerous cells, like certain growth factors. These vaccines have been tested in a range of cancers, including acute myeloid leukemia, multiple myeloma, glioblastoma, melanoma, prostate cancer, and others.

Why Did Earlier Vaccines Stall?

"A major factor is that there's not a sense of urgency," Dennis Burton, PhD, of Scripps Translational Research Clinic in La Jolla, California, told MedPage Today.

Zika has been relatively contained; rabies vaccines are already sufficiently effective; and influenza remains a difficult target, Burton said.

...based on the sheer number of people who will be vaccinated for COVID-19, events will occur, and most will likely be unrelated to the vaccine.

"One of the things we're most concerned about is that people won't get vaccinated," he said. "But the risks of this disease are going to be way higher than the risks associated with vaccination."

“Clinical trials for 75,000 people show it’s safe and it’s 95 percent effective,” Dr. Weissman said. “That’s pretty good data to convince people that it is OK.”
While mRNA is a new technology, experts have been working on it for years.

“It’s not just as though these technologies were just starting to be developed during the pandemic,” Dr. Moss said. “There has been a lot of preparatory work.”


This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to fact-check misinformation that is shared widely online, including work with Facebook to identify and reduce the circulation of false stories on the platform.

Pfizer and Moderna did not skip animal trials

Fact check by the associated press or any other press seems these days to mean editing and deleting any information they don't want you to have. The word "they" refers to many entities filtering information and free speech. When did all the social media become the decider of what news is made available to the public? I for one am perfectable of deciding for myself what I believe or disbelieve, I don't need the press and social media owners doing that for me.

[tuccillo]

Because a small number of people will have a bad outcome from taking the vaccine. This is predictable. There would almost certainly be no negligence involved. Everything in life is a risk and there are tradeoffs. You step outside your front door and go for a walk, because exercise will improve your health, and you could be killed by a car. There are also risks associated with the coronavirus and the vaccine. If you are young and healthy, the probability of a bad outcome from being infected is very small. If you are over 65 with several health issues, the probability of a bad outcome from the coronavirus is much higher. The vaccines reduce your probability of serious disease and death to essentially zero. In exchange for this remarkable effectiveness, you accept that there is also a very small probability of the vaccine itself causing an issue. You, as well as everyone else, can make an informed decision. However, if you are a healthy person you need to ask yourself the following question: is the probability of a bad outcome from becoming infected higher than the probability of a bad outcome from taking the vaccine?

Originally Posted by JustRita

Why did the government feel it was necessary to absolve vaccine companies from legal ramifications?

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by merrymini

Some people posting here “believe the science.” In fact, the science frequently is inconclusive or directly opposed to other science, much like economists and climate control “geniuses.” You choose to believe you did the right thing by taking inoculations and falsely conclude that people who do not will die or are “wrong” not to take or are antivaxxers. In fact, many people want to consider their options before rolling with the masses. The death number of 2019 and 2020 are about 50,000 different (50,000 more deaths in 2020) not 500,000 different, indicating 500,000 MORE people did NOT DIE OF THE CHINESE VIRUS. The virus has been a useful political, control and money tool and continues to be so since big pharm is now coming out with a booster shot. Get in line.

I'm a conservative, but you are drinking WAY too much of the kool-aid

[irishwonone]

Oh, oh. So glad we have so many experts at the Villages.

[Larchap49]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

And I'll ask again: Where in the world did you get those numbers? They are wrong!

The data show an increase of approximately 560,000 deaths in 2020. In each of 2017, 2018, and 2019 there were about 2.8M deaths. In 2020 there were 3.4M deaths. That is a difference of 600,000 NOT 50,000!

See the National Center for Healdh Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Surveillance chart at the bottom of this CDC page.

Download the data and do your own math.

The trouble is I don't believe the numbers because almost everybody that died in 2020 was blamed on covid. The news has been full of families that had to take legal action on cause of death to collect insurance. Hospitals are rewarded monetarily for covid deaths but not any other cause. In my opinion and it's only my opinion I would bet only 50 to 60 percent were strictly from covid (I think that is being generous) the rest had serious other health issues or were so old that any minor illness would have killed them, or both. Just my opinion and as an American who hasn't had my free speech taken away yet I choose to express it.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

The statement above ... no matter who is making it ... is what I reject. It is stated as if it is fact but it is not. With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

The shot (not a vaccine) does not prevent infection; it only (possibly) protects from getting sick after infection. Everyone, everywhere will be exposed / infected at some time, somewhere. I choose to trust my unaltered immune system. And it is my choice.

You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust. Good luck.

You are completely off base when you refer to the mRNA vaccines as "not a vaccine". Get a clue.....

Definition of vaccine. Please take note of defintion B.
Vaccine | Definition of Vaccine by Merriam-Webster

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Larchap49

The trouble is I don't believe the numbers because almost everybody that died in 2020 was blamed on covid. The news has been full of families that had to take legal action on cause of death to collect insurance. Hospitals are rewarded monetarily for covid deaths but not any other cause. In my opinion and it's only my opinion I would bet only 50 to 60 percent were strictly from covid (I think that is being generous) the rest had serious other health issues or were so old that any minor illness would have killed them, or both. Just my opinion and as an American who hasn't had my free speech taken away yet I choose to express it.

Free speech is fine though I expect you believe the first amendment goes farther than it actually does.

Ignorance, especially willful ignorance, is a shame. You can choose to believe the conspiracy theories about Covid as a cause of death and you can probably find an example or three where a mistake was made. However, whether they were properly categorized or not, there were over 500,000 more people that died in 2020 than in any of the previous three years.

They may or may not have been "true" Covid deaths but there were still 500,000 additional deaths. Absent any other explanation for the increase, and given that there was only one uncommon health crisis in 2020, the vast majority of those 500,000 must have been due to Covid.

A thought on "true" Covid deaths:
The question to be asked is, "Would the deaths have occurred last year if the individual had not contracted Covid?" People die of pneumonia, heart disease, and other pulmonary diseases every year. In each of the three years prior to 2020, about 2.8M people died in the US from various causes including pneumonia, heart disease, and other pulmonary diseases. In 2020, 3.4M people died of various causes. Would there have been an additional 600,000 deaths if there was no Covid? The three-year trend says there would not have been.

Whether the deaths were Covid-only or they were Covid-induced they were still due to Covid. A vaccine that would prevent a person from contracting Covid would prevent both Covid-only deaths and Covid-induced deaths and would have saved most of the 556,000 additional deaths that have occurred.

[tvbound]

The sad part is, that if one certain person were to publicly say "I received the Covid vaccine and you should too," there would be millions of current anti-vaxxers - who would instantly do a 180.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by tvbound

The sad part is, that if one certain person were to publicly say "I received the Covid vaccine and you should too," there would be millions of current anti-vaxxers - who would instantly do a 180.

There are lots of sheep, blindly following along.

Don't understand why people refuse to do their own research, and would rather wait until some poor misguided soul says exactly what they want to hear, truth or not....