[JoMar]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

As I said.

Poke Here



Which I have no problem with doing here.

Put them in central location so that school children can learn...from the despicable parts of our nation's past.

Not true, Germany has them all over the cities, as we do in the battlefields and locations where battles happened, where those that were involved lived and at the cemetaries where the lost are buried. Japan has left buildings we damaged stand as a monument to their brave soldiers. Hitlers birthplace in Austria still stands and is identified. The suggestion of moving the statures to a central location so kids could go and learn is a great thought but not practical. Schools don't teach history (field trips were part of my schooling), parents don't teach history. Go to any Civil War battlefield or museum and count heads, you might be surprised how many aren't there. We will eliminate any knowledge of the bad parts of our story, and for those that think that's a good thing, congratulations, your revision will happen.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Not true, Germany has them all over the cities, as we do in the battlefields and locations where battles happened, where those that were involved lived and at the cemetaries where the lost are buried. Japan has left buildings we damaged stand as a monument to their brave soldiers. Hitlers birthplace in Austria still stands and is identified. The suggestion of moving the statures to a central location so kids could go and learn is a great thought but not practical. Schools don't teach history (field trips were part of my schooling), parents don't teach history. Go to any Civil War battlefield or museum and count heads, you might be surprised how many aren't there. We will eliminate any knowledge of the bad parts of our story, and for those that think that's a good thing, congratulations, your revision will happen.

I (as many others) don't see it as "trying to eliminate" the disgusting part of our past, at all.

It's simply a matter of not glorifying it...in prominent public places.

Now is a good time to revisit, when and why the majority...of those statues/monuments were put up.


Jim Crow Support - Intimidation of Blacks (click here)

But the argument that the Confederate flag and other displays represent “heritage, not hate” ignores the near-universal heritage of African Americans whose ancestors were enslaved by the millions in the South.

It trivializes their pain, their history and their concerns about racism — whether it’s the racism of the past or that of today.

And it conceals the true history of the Confederate States of America and the seven decades of Jim Crow segregation and oppression that followed the Reconstruction era.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Said it before in different words:

If your understanding of history relies on a statue or a series of statues, then you need to just stop talking about history at all.

Removing statues is NOT erasing history. It's removing statues. History is still being taught. The books are still in print. The original documents are still in the museums and archives where they were put, precisely so that actual documentation of our history could be preserved for future use/consideration.

Stop with the nonsense about removing statues being an act of removing our history. It just isn't. Most people don't even know who sculpted any of those statues. The artists are part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know what year any of those statues were erected. The year is part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know the actual official names of most of the statues. The names are part of the STATUES' histories.

These statues are, for all intents and purposes, not historical at all. They represent prominent personalities who existed at one point or another in our history, but the statues themselves have no importance of their own.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Said it before in different words:

If your understanding of history relies on a statue or a series of statues, then you need to just stop talking about history at all.

Removing statues is NOT erasing history. It's removing statues. History is still being taught. The books are still in print. The original documents are still in the museums and archives where they were put, precisely so that actual documentation of our history could be preserved for future use/consideration.

Stop with the nonsense about removing statues being an act of removing our history. It just isn't. Most people don't even know who sculpted any of those statues. The artists are part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know what year any of those statues were erected. The year is part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know the actual official names of most of the statues. The names are part of the STATUES' histories.

These statues are, for all intents and purposes, not historical at all. They represent prominent personalities who existed at one point or another in our history, but the statues themselves have no importance of their own.

They were strong and fine looking men on elegant horses that someone once loved. Someone worked hard to make a beautiful statue of them. They were someone's father and someone's son and someone's brother..just like the men who are being touted as hero's who were incarcerated many times and didn't stop when they were told to stop and grabbed an officer of the laws tazer and shot at him with it.

People who look for beauty find it in all kinds of places.

If it is wrong to look down on one group of people who have done wrong things, than it is also wrong to look down on another group of people who have done wrong things. It is the same issue. Who has the high ground here?

I have plenty of farmers and hillbillies and rednecks and doctors and lawyers and statesmen in my family and aquaintances. None of them kept slaves or were put in jail for anything. My point is this. No matter how you look at it, there are people who do try their very best to do the right thing, just about every day in their lives. I bet no posters on this site knew anyone who kept slaves and very few know/knew anyone who was put in jail.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

"What led to the outbreak of the bloodiest conflict in the history of North America?

A common explanation is that the Civil War was fought over the MORAL issue of slavery.

In fact, it was the ECONOMICS of slavery and POLITICAL CONTROL of that system that was CENTRAL to the conflict.

A key issue was STATE'S RIGHTS."

Causes Of The Civil War | History Detectives | PBS

I never said slavery wasn't an issue, it started with States rights, and slavery was part of the rights southern states were fighting for. A technicality for sure, but gets overlooked and ignored.
I can post link after link that says the same as above. I think I did that when this subject came up months ago.

I'm not going to get into this again.

Steve

While you were picking & choosing portions of that PBS page to quote (and adding YOUR OWN emphasis), you seem to have skipped this: "The Southern states wanted to assert their authority over the federal government so they could abolish federal laws they didn't support, especially laws interfering with the South's right to keep slaves and take them wherever they wished." (emphasis added )
I'm quite sure you can find plenty of links to people that share your opinion; once again I'll post a link to the actual declarations of cessation from the 5 original Confederate states: The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States | American Battlefield Trust Read it in their own words, not the opinions on anyone else. If you don't want to read it all, I can tell you that 'slave' in various forms appears 83 times, 'right' appears 37 times and largely as a right to keep slaves.

[ColdNoMore]

*Breaking News*

The FBI just released a statement, that in essence stated...Bubba was NOT the target of a hate crime.

Which, as I said in the other thread...is actually a relief.

And I will give it to Goodlife's reports, that it looks like it WAS a door pull rope (that was made to look like a noose sometime last fall and prior to Wallace being assigned the stall at this race)...that was just misconstrued by a crew member.

Good news...all the way around.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

*Breaking News*

The FBI just released a statement, that in essence stated...Bubba was NOT the target of a hate crime.

Which, as I said in the other thread...is actually a relief.

And I will give it to Goodlife's reports, that it looks like it WAS a door pull rope (that was made to look like a noose sometime last fall and prior to Wallace being assigned the stall at this race)...that was just misconstrued by a crew member.

Good news...all the way around.

All the rope door pulls at Talladega have "nooses" on them. They weren't made to look like nooses, they were made to make it easier to grab the rope and pull down the door.

[ONTAP15]

Welcome home, Brother.....I'm a NYC boy who also served in Vietnam and I think it sucks y'all are getting hounded over the Confederate flag..

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Said it before in different words:

If your understanding of history relies on a statue or a series of statues, then you need to just stop talking about history at all.

Removing statues is NOT erasing history. It's removing statues. History is still being taught. The books are still in print. The original documents are still in the museums and archives where they were put, precisely so that actual documentation of our history could be preserved for future use/consideration.

Stop with the nonsense about removing statues being an act of removing our history. It just isn't. Most people don't even know who sculpted any of those statues. The artists are part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know what year any of those statues were erected. The year is part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know the actual official names of most of the statues. The names are part of the STATUES' histories.

These statues are, for all intents and purposes, not historical at all. They represent prominent personalities who existed at one point or another in our history, but the statues themselves have no importance of their own.

So, by that reasoning, are we to conclude you'd have no problem demolishing the Jefferson Memorial and blowing up the Washington Monument? Just asking ...

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

All the rope door pulls at Talladega have "nooses" on them. They weren't made to look like nooses, they were made to make it easier to grab the rope and pull down the door.

NASCAR looks ridiculous ... talk about an emotional overreaction and adding fuel to the already blazing racial fire. They owe all of us an apology

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

All the rope door pulls at Talladega have "nooses" on them. They weren't made to look like nooses, they were made to make it easier to grab the rope and pull down the door.

Proof that they are actually..."nooses?"

You obviously must not have ever been in Scouting, or you would know how many ways there are...to make a "loop" at the end of a rope.

And no, I never made it to Eagle, because a driver's license, a job that paid for a '63 Fairlane and girls...was waaaaay more fun.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Proof that they are actually..."nooses?"

You obviously must not have ever been in Scouting, or you would know how many ways there are...to make a "loop" at the end of a rope.

And no, I never made it to Eagle, because a driver's license, a job that paid for a '63 Fairlane and girls...was waaaaay more fun.

LOL I didn't call it a noose, Nascar and Bubba did, that's why I used quotes

Let me help

What do quotes around a word mean?

Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. Usually, this implies that the author doesn’t agree with the use of the term.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

LOL I didn't call it a noose, Nascar and Bubba did, that's why I used quotes smartypants.

Actually, you DID call it...a "noose."

And given the number of different ways to make a loop at the end of a rope, an actual "noose" is very likely the only reason...a concern was made in the first place.


Regardless, I'm really glad it was a false alarm...as I'm a race (any racing) fan.

[ColdNoMore]

FBI said..."fashioned like a noose."

Which is the first hint, that there are lots of ways...to "fashion a loop."

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

FBI said..."fashioned like a noose."

Which is the first hint, that there are lots of ways...to "fashion a loop."

And the article you linked in your day of reckoning thread?

Sunday night marked a tipping point for NASCAR. Sunday night, the series disclosed that someone had left a noose — the symbol of this nation’s original sin, the undeniable message of intimidation, a sign so cruel and cutting it defies imagination — in the garage stall of Bubba Wallace, the Cup series’ lone Black driver.

OOPS