[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

But this is about respect. You and at least two other posters here referred to trangendered people as "freaks." Are we really that perfect that we can judge other people? Several people here invoked the word "God." Didn't Jesus teach us not to judge?

I'm sure this thread is being read by transgenders, their family members, friends and loved ones. To call them "freaks" hurts ALL of those people and says volumes more about the one hurling the insult than it says about those to whom it's directed.

Hmmm, the author of the quoted post preaches against judging other people, and then in the next sentence he passes judgement on people who disagree with his opinions? You can't have an intelligent debate with someone who defies logic. Reminds me of regrettable conversations around the dinner table with my sisters during holidays.

[fishon]

Nontraditional sexuality was dealt with as mental illness when I worked with convicts.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by BigHoss18

Although all your statements are true, IMHO, you’re response misses the main point of this topic; fairness in sports.

No one will ever convince all people to be fair and kind to people that believe there are more than two genders. I’m this specific situation though, I agree that “sexually reassigned” people should not be allowed to compete with the new sex of players they now align with.

If transgenders want to compete, start their own league.

Crazy, I suggested the same thing at one point and was told my posts are stupid.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

And I'll say what I said the last time: if leagues were not divided by gender in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue at all. No more mens' teams and womens' teams. Just teams.

As they should be

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Discussion of sports is stupid, so I'm editing all my contributions to this thread.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Boomer

I agree with you completely.

This thread-start was destined (and perhaps designed) to go down this road.

I have been on TOTV since its beginning and throughout all those years, I never reported a thread. But that has changed — and I don’t like it. I flagged this one early, very early.

Yet, here we are, past 100 posts, most of which are some seriously ugly stuff.

And, yes, I also saw the one you mentioned. But I would not be surprised if the one who posted it is still among us. There was a time though when that would have meant an instant banning.

Btw, accepting though I am and a kind soul, too, I do not think transgender athletes should be allowed to compete in women’s sports. I think that because it is not fair competition and because my common sense tells me so.

That being said, I do not think hate-mongering is ever acceptable. And the subject at hand invited that and the spewing has been allowed to continue.

There is a pattern lately of certain posters being allowed to really push the envelope — actually it’s turned into more than that — it goes beyond. I do not understand why this is happening. But it is now the bent of TOTV.

(And I need to stop deluding myself that it will get better around here.)

Boomer

You do have the power to stop going on forum’s that don’t meet you’re standards. Good luck finding any forum that will conform to you’re standards.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'm a woman. I'm not compromising a damned thing. I don't feel that transgenders belong in gender-specific team sports. I ALSO don't feel that gender-specific team sports should exist at all. If a woman wants to join a football team, her acceptance or rejection should be based on her ability to perform up to the standards of the team. It shouldn't matter what's between her legs - she'd be wearing a cup just like the men do. What matters is, can she catch a ball? Can she throw it well? Can she tackle? Can she take a tackle? Can she run? Can she pass, feint, hurl, and do everything else that is expected of "a football player" regardless of their genitalia? Yes? Then she should be accepted onto the team. No? Then she's out.

Should a man be allowed on the syncronized swim team? Is he graceful in the water? Does he know how to swim? Can he move his arms and legs in the required way? Can he do a handstand in the water? Can he spin in the water? Can he hold his breath underwater for a minute or longer? Yes? Then he is on the team. No? Then he's out.

The criteria for ANY sport should be ability. Not genitalia. Full stop.

I agree, but not going to happen.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

You do have the power to stop going on forum’s that don’t meet you’re standards. Good luck finding any forum that will conform to you’re standards.

I'd be content if the posters merely conformed to the Terms of Service. They can't manage that, and the only reason I can think of why they are able to get away with it on this thread is that the moderators have been unavailable for the past few days.

[Tom52]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'm a woman. I'm not compromising a damned thing. I don't feel that transgenders belong in gender-specific team sports. I ALSO don't feel that gender-specific team sports should exist at all. If a woman wants to join a football team, her acceptance or rejection should be based on her ability to perform up to the standards of the team. It shouldn't matter what's between her legs - she'd be wearing a cup just like the men do. What matters is, can she catch a ball? Can she throw it well? Can she tackle? Can she take a tackle? Can she run? Can she pass, feint, hurl, and do everything else that is expected of "a football player" regardless of their genitalia? Yes? Then she should be accepted onto the team. No? Then she's out.

Should a man be allowed on the syncronized swim team? Is he graceful in the water? Does he know how to swim? Can he move his arms and legs in the required way? Can he do a handstand in the water? Can he spin in the water? Can he hold his breath underwater for a minute or longer? Yes? Then he is on the team. No? Then he's out.

The criteria for ANY sport should be ability. Not genitalia. Full stop.

So, if sports evolve as you suggest there would be no womens golf, tennis, basketball, volleyball, track, soccer teams, etc. That does not seem fair to me. Women deserve to have opportunities for athletic scholarships and professional careers same as men. Mybe I mis-read what you are proposing.

[DeanFL]

Originally Posted by Tom52

So, if sports evolve as you suggest there would be no womens golf, tennis, basketball, volleyball, track, soccer teams, etc. That does not seem fair to me. Women deserve to have opportunities for athletic scholarships and professional careers same as men. Mybe I mis-read what you are proposing.

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Completely totally agree with this. Piling ALL 'genders' into generic sports teams as suggested by OBB would backfire on so many girls/women. That's a simplistic reaction to a complex issue. I could go on and give a multitude of specifics, but spare me.
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[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Renee Richards was a mediocre male tennis player before his transition surgery. Well past his prime...

Using Richard's as an example is a red herring.

A very good friend of mine has two sons who were both State Champions in High School. Played college tennis, but never were good enough to turn pro.

My friend has a vacation home in the same Country Club community as the Williams sisters.

The boys (now in their early 30s) practiced with them when came to visit. They've done so since they were in High School.

They would often beat both of them...

What's this all mean? That routinely (but not always), men are stronger and faster than women. It's a combination of biology and physics. You can change the biology, but not the physics...

Then there the story that sisters said could be any man out of top 100 ATP ranking. As story goes chain smoking German ranked somewhere around 200 ( who would even light up during match) took that bet and won.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'd be content if the posters merely conformed to the Terms of Service. They can't manage that, and the only reason I can think of why they are able to get away with it on this thread is that the moderators have been unavailable for the past few days.

Agree, but some to majority get heated debate and sometimes post before they think 🤔, yes, I know this hard to believe? But, even a know it all like Me can fall of the straight and narrow.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

And I'll say what I said the last time: if leagues were not divided by gender in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue at all. No more mens' teams and womens' teams. Just teams.

Then, then vast majority of women would never "make the team"...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

n/t

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

n/t