Foreign countries have their own rules... We cannot control that...

Why has polio disappeared? Because for over 50 years the polio vaccine has been MANDATORY everywhere in the world!

The same with Small Pox, etc....

Are you forgetting how many diseases are gone because of VACCINES?

Don'tcha just love to debunk those asinine conspiracy theories?

...and thereby being subject to government regulation. The businesses would be under the government's thumb and be forced to do what the government wants them to do...and that is refrain from requiring a vaccine passport. I'm agreeing with what you're saying. I don't see the contradiction, it's what I've been saying all along.

And the bigger issue and the real theme of this thread is that the action of regulating what businesses can and cannot do, which DeSantis is advocating, is contrary to conservative principles. This conundrum is the heart of the thread. I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Good point and I believe you are correct (except in the case of religious objection). So why is DeSantis piling on then? If businesses already do NOT have the freedom to decide whom they serve, what's the point of banning a requirement to show proof of vaccination?

Yes, that's been hashed out here already. My phrase "...but they support this proposal..." was apparently ambiguous. Some thought the "proposal" was vaccine passports even though I specified the proposal in question was DeSantis' plan to ban them in the previous paragraph. Nonetheless, I edited the original post for clarity.

Those who think that businesses are going to turn away customers who don't have proof of having a vaccine are simply wrong about business. We went through an almost identical situation 20+ years ago when Florida made it simple and easy for nearly all law abiding citizens to obtain permits to carry a concealed weapon on them.

Many of the opponents of the law claimed that businesses will simply exercise their right to refuse service to those people carrying firearms. Turns out that they were wrong. Businesses are in business to make money. That means serving the public, and the more customers, the better the business likes it.

Sure, the law prohibits the carrying of firearms in schools, courthouses, and a few places like that. But other than the handful of exceptions provided for in the law, I don't know of any business that refuses service to people legally carrying a concealed weapon where the law does not prohibit the carrying.

Many people carry all the time everywhere they go and no one else even knows about it. It would be the same way with this Vaccine Passport thing. Those who think that their favorite restaurant or little hideaway is going to put up signs and prohibit customers who don't have a vaccine card are simply dreaming. The businesses are not going to turn away customers regardless what you think of it. However, you're still free to leave if you want. You just won't have the right to tell the business whom they can serve and whom they can't.

consequences
 

If you continue to drive your vehicle, motorcycle, or continue to cross a busy street, or continue to eat red meat, or go hiking, or rock climbing etc., etc., these people also could be on their death beds, wishing they had made different choices in life. This is called living. If you like living, be prepared for the possible consequences.

It is different
 

Because you don't have to have chemicals injected into your body to get a passport, or a driver's license.

I did read it
 

You are stating that the support of the proposal to ban vac. ID cards is supporting government interference. Not true. To a conservative, supporting the "ban" of vaccine passports is NOT supporting government interference. Quite the opposite, if our Governor were supporting vac. ID cards, this, then would be government interference. Therefore, supporting legislation to ban vac. ID cards is what a conservative would support.
In other words, the proposal to ban vac. ID cards is, in and of itself, conservative, meaning, less government interference. If no one has ID cards, then restaurants, businesses, etc., would not be able to segregate possible patrons thru the use of ID cards. And hopefully, someday, get back to "normal".

If everyone had a V tattooed on their forehead, with an information Chip inserted after being vaccinated, there would be no need for passports.
This would save a lot of paper, and trees, which would also stop Climate Change in its tracks.
Win Win!
V and Chip is the way to go!:icon_wink:

We must have some very young (or forgetful) people on here. The comment that polio just 'disappeared by itself' really threw me for a loop!

Even an anti-vaxxer knows that without the polio vaccine we'd have people everywhere with polio. As well as small pox, rubella, measles, etc....

The whole premise of declining the vaccine I find irresponsible, but to quote virus and disease we've managed to keep under control because of a vaccine?

Yes, at this time, you have the right, here in the US, to refuse the virus. But be prepared for the consequences.

And the argument that " I'm not getting the virus because I'll have herd immunity " is simply asinine. A person doesn't get herd immunity - a herd does - in this case humanity. And how do we get there? Exposure and recovery maybe 10%, but vaccines do all the rest.

So, waiting for herd immunity is an incredibly selfish attitude. Those people are letting everyone else take responsibility for their personal health.

Spock would not approve (another blast form the past - wonder how many will get it?)

I guess you missed my sarcasm...

Polio has NOT disappeared... It's making a comeback...

Because the new powers that be are trying to use the vaccine passport to usurp what freedoms the people still have...

Costco is the first that comes to mind. They prohibit concealed or open carry...

Now, I agree, if they can't see it, there's not much they'll do, but if you're printing, they can and will ask you to leave.

Good thing is, the only penalty is a possible charge of trespassing...

I don't understand why all the pro-vaccine passport posters are using yellow fever as an example. It has nothing in common with COVID, other than being a virus. Yellow fever is transmitted by mosquitoes, not person to person. The countries that require the vaccination are not interested in YOUR health. Do you think the government of Malawi gives a rat's furry arse if an American dies? They just don't want you to die in their country, possibly on their dime. They would require malaria prophylaxis for the same reason, except it is impossible to enforce. With poliomyelitis making a comeback, why not a passport for that? Far more contagious and deadly than COVID, and while it is primarily transmitted by the fecal-oral route, it can sometimes be respiratory. Besides, ever check out an airplane bathroom or the restrooms at the airport?????

So if you want to be "sure" the person next to you on a plane is COVID free (but even the vaccine doesn't guarantee that), by all means support the "vaccine passport", and give up some of your freedoms, especially when the next step occurs. How about being "sure" the person next to you doesn't have HIV??? Can't get it from sitting next to him? How about a nosebleed? How about a cut from something in the overhead bin? How about coughing up some blood from pneumocystis carinii pneumonitis? To those who want to feel "100% safe", how do you feel about HIV status on your "passport". Then there are dozens more infectious diseases to worry about, all more contagious and deadly than COVID. So please, beware the slippery slope.

Vaccine
 

Wow someone with common sense. What a rare person you are. Thank you!!!!!

Vaccine
 

Thank you

It's bad enough to have carry my Villages ID around, never mind a paper card saying I have been vaccinated.

All this discussion about vaccines and passports is like arranging chairs on the deck of the titanic. Take a look at this video discussing the use of the vaccine during a pandemic.

vaccine disaster ahead - YouTube

And, if you don't want to watch the whole thing, here's a 90-second clip that summaries it:

clip - YouTube

There have been two other strains of Coronaviruses that made the leap from animals to humans, SARS & MERS. SARS was around for less than two years, the MERS outbreak lasted less than three years. We didn’t have a vaccine for either one...

I thought that too, but why did they want our ins info , and why did an EOB come in the mail for it. Or else the info collection was for Big Brother, ya know, future reference.
Just a thought.

I don't know of a single time when the government stayed within any boundary. Temporary sales taxes? Patriot Act? FISA courts? :1rotfl:

I believe the proposal is a preemptive strike.

I imagine (I don't know) that your insurance may have been charged for the personnel that performed the injection. There may be a standard amount that a pharmacy is allowed to charge insurance for their time.

The EOB came because the claim was made against the insurance and they are making you aware. But since you have that EOB, what were you charged for, the cost of the vaccine or just the cost of performing the injection?

My wife and I have received three of our four injections with no cash, no credit card, and no insurance information requested.

I assume everyone saw this...

CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Monday that "our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus" or get sick.

"It's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data," she added.

Passport?
 

I remember my fake ID's. Worked almost every time.

Yeah, I had one too and it usually worked even though the only physical similarity between the fake ID that I had and me is that both of us are male. My fake ID was from a different state too, but that didn't matter most of the time. Hell, I probably could have shown them a label from a soup can and they would have said "OK". :)

Which tends to prove that people who are in business don't like to turn away paying customers.

Doesn't the Florida castle law and stand your grounds law mean the guard at Costco can shoot you if you argue with him when he asks you to leave?

I'm thinking the potential for a "worst case possible" penalty for violating a conceal and carry policy of a company whose owner is someone other than yourself, is a lot worse than merely trespassing.

Because if they CAN recoup some of the expense from insurance companies, they will. It's not going to cost YOU anything more by submitting insurance information. In fact, it might end up costing less overall to the taxpayer (which may or may not include yourself, I don't know you), if more of the cost of vaccinating the majority of people living in the USA, is covered by insurance companies instead of federal funds.

Yeah, no...

That only works if your life is in danger...

Only non vaccinated get it and that is their choice so why worry about them.

Originally Posted by jmintzer5 View Post
Costco is the first that comes to mind. They prohibit concealed or open carry...

Now, I agree, if they can't see it, there's not much they'll do, but if you're printing, they can and will ask you to leave.
————————————————†”—————

Then if I get killed in Costco because they provided inadequate security I should be able to sue them.

No, it works if you BELIEVE your life to be in danger. Read the actual law.

very correct.

I hope you intended the irony of your post. (In case you missed it - you just implied that you would sue someone after you're dead. Because dead people can call lawyers or file claims in a courthouse somehow?)

Look at it the other way: if you get killed in Costco because you showed up carrying a firearm and they felt you were a threat to themselves or the customers, and they shoot you, they could sue your estate for the traumatic incident.

If "any reasonable person" would believe their life was in danger...

Not just that you believe it...

I have read the law... I've taken the training...

And if you're simply carrying a holstered firearm, they have no cause to shoot you. There is no "perceived threat".

The castle doctrine would not protect that action...

Yeah, just because I walk around with a baseball bat doesn't mean I'm going to actually HIT someone with it.

Nope. Just like the Police, Costco has no responsibility to protect you...