I wasn't talking about "business travel". I mean everyday people going on vacations. To an entity that depends upon tourism, every individual visitor counts.

Why would someone need to show or present a digital-based card to prove they've been vaccinated? So now the CDC paper cards people are given post vaccination(s) are already obsolete?

How can you even address this...

hmmm, you're at a resort. Some unvaccinated person causes an outbreak amongst other nonvaccinated and you go on lockdown;

You're on a 14 night cruise and on day 3 someone gets sick and you are confined to your cabin for the rest of the trip - or quarantined in a foreign port.

You're on one of those 15 hour flights to Asia/Africa and someone gets very ill on the flight and is taken off - spot check reveals Covid. You're escorted in a quarantine hotel ..

Get the picture? What gives anyone the right to recklessly endanger someone else's livelihood or leisure time?

Okay, but aren't restaurants, offices and businesses also free to determine who they wish to serve? Otherwise we're interfering with their freedom, which is a conservative no no.

THANK YOU!!! Finally someone gets the essence of my original post!!!

Muhammad has come to the mountain!

Yes, they have the right to refuse service for sure..

"Can airlines, restaurants, stores and stadiums make the vaccine a condition of doing business with you?

Yes, within the anti-discrimination laws.

“They can decide to refuse service to you for pretty much any reason,” "most shoppers are already familiar with: no shirt, no shoes, no service."

People who are covered by anti-discrimination laws can’t just demand a business let them do whatever they want.

The company just has to give you a reasonable accommodation, so a store might refuse you entry but offer curbside pick-up of groceries.

source: Will the COVID-19 vaccine be mandatory? What the law says

I am disappointed and expect better from you. No vaccine is 100% effective. Nonetheless children cannot go to school without proof of immunization. You know that and I think you support that. No school would claim that having their students immunized totally guarantees that those particular illnesses will never be spread in the school. But requiring proof of immunization is the best a school can do, so that is what the law requires. Might some parent forge a vaccine certificate, sure.

All those countries that require proof of Yellow Fever vaccination. Are you going to tell them what a foolish idea that is as the vaccine likely has a failure rate as well or do you think that is a reasonable precaution against a disease that kills about 50,000 a year? Over time, if we get a requirement for a Covid passport, the issues of how recent a booster is needed for the passport to be valid will be answered. You know that.

Arguing that a vaccine passport is not perfect is not a reason to reject the idea. No public health measure is perfect. No vaccine is perfect. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. You know that too.

And another misread.

Read my original post, Rook..."Conservatives are not fond of government interference in general, but they support this proposal" <to ban vaccine passports>. That's the whole point of this thread.

In other words, conservatives are supporting the government interfering with restaurants, offices and other businesses by not letting them have the freedom to choose who they serve. This is contrary to basic conservative ideals.

Sorry you misunderstood.

HEY MOD - how about retiring this thread? Too many are not getting it. And others are talking about something else.

Only one person in 14 pages got my point about the governor going against conservative principles. Everything else that can be said tangentially has been said.

Remember Polio? Well, thanks to anti-vaxxers, it's coming back....

In 2019, some humans have continued to spew anti-vaccination propaganda not backed by scientific evidence, claiming that vaccine-preventable diseases are not that serious and that stuff like supplements can replace vaccinations. This has essentially served as good PR for the polio viruses, hindering efforts to vaccinate people around the world.

Fighting Polio: What Happened In 2019 And What Is Next

I really feel some people have a mental block or lack of reasoning.
No one is saying you must get vaccinated, you must then carry your card to " come aboard"
They are saying...if you want to enter and eat at MY restaurant, you need a vaccine and mask. You want to ride my boat....again vaccine/proof and mask. Etc,etc
You and I have all these wonderful rights.....but there are rules. There is no malice toward you...just safety rules.
No pouting,or crying or acting like a child is gonna change it.
So please stop.

So what's your position, Rick? Should businesses be free to choose? If so, that's a classic conservative position. If not free to choose whom they serve, well, that's DeSantis' proposal.

Me, no, I don't believe businesses have the right to deprive people of basic human rights. And I don't care if they are "private." The Supreme Court has ruled that corporations are "people" because individual humans are behind corporate decisions to grant or withhold equal treatment.

I don't believe anyone has the right to deprive people of basic human rights. But going to McDonalds or shopping at Wal-Mart is not a basic human right.

And a business has the right to choose who they cater to. This is a capitalist country, so the 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' rules are understood. In the same way, 'no mask, no service' has been the norm for nearly a year. And that is perfectly understood.

Notice I said understood - not agreeing with it, but it's a small price to pay when we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

So, proving vaccination? Well, I can see the issue that would cause. Tough one there...

Two sides to the coin and that's what I meant by political overlap and no cut and dried answers in modern American policy. I'm glad you see the conundrum.

Yes, vaccine passports undermine freedom. The challenge is deciding who's more adversely affected - the individual, or businesses? Interfering in the freedom of either is anathema to conservative principles.

Nothing is easy in politics so we might as well get used to living together as harmoniously as possible.

Who says conservatives approve of a vaccine passport? Might as well wear a gold star. Do you really want to go down that road for something that has a 99.xxx% recovery rate? Don't you get what has been pushed on us? Keep everyone afraid. If it's so bad wear are all of the dead people who never wore masks?

They should not required vaccinations for everything that should be a person's choice we open up the borders everybody comes in they do not get vaccinated you're not even tested why should us American have to follow some rules by the government that should be uncalled for

Actually, it was your question to answer. And now we see that you mean "they should be free to choose (well, except when there are exceptions, that is)".

See, the problem you have is that you want to paint DeSantis with this broad brush, claiming he's being anti-conservative somehow. But he doesn't see this as a "freedom to choose for businesses" issue. He sees it as a governmental intrusion issue on the people. DeSantis was elected by the people of Florida, not the private businesses of Florida. He's saying the people have the right to choose, unencumbered by other concerns.

You're free to disagree with his point of view, of course. But it's a little odd that not requiring his state's residents to have to show a vaccination passport is somehow anti-conservative. Well, that is unless you buy into the notion that conservative folks only care about businesses and not individuals.

Side note: your note to the mods to retire this thread because people aren't getting it is due to the way you wrote part of the post:

What proposal? Having a vaccine passport? Yes, we know now you actually meant DeSantis's "proposal" to prohibit requiring a vaccine passport in the state. You've had to clarify what you meant more than once, when simply editing the original post could have sufficed.

You mean the 2,821,235 worldwide or just the 564,399 from the US?

It's only a violation of those amendments if the government forces businesses to require and enforce those restrictions.

Businesses have the right to require and enforce those restrictions if they choose to already. I mean heck - in some states, a business is allowed to refuse service to a homosexual, on the grounds that their sexual preference violates the business owner's freedom of religion.

But go ahead and tell us all about how bad it is for Publix to make you show the vaccine card you ALREADY GOT when you got vaccinated, violates your freedoms.

(clue: it doesn't. You still have the freedom to go to Winn Dixie, where they don't check those cards. Or to Walmart, where you could show them the 8 of Clubs and they'll nod it through. Or Amazon, where they have no way of checking anyway)

From the Medical Journals I've read - At this stage it is stated that the vaccine doesn't protect one from getting COVID, it is effective in preventing vaccinated individuals dying from it. How much or how long a person vaccinated or one recovering from Covid is protected long term is still unknown. (I'm a retired MD)

Unbelievable. Geri, please scroll up and see where the other misunderstandings have been been put straight. Thank you.

For easier comprehension on your behalf, Co Bully Mom:

Let's say you book a 12-day cruise. Let's say a few people who refused vaccines, get sick on the ship. Now you end up with a cruise ship with people who are sick, and spreading disease to all the other passengers, some of whom might also not be vaccinated. You won't be able to dock anywhere, no one at any port will allow anyone to debark. Everyone will be quarantined.

That is what he means by "impact." Not that he himself personally will get sick, but the entire vacation will be impacted by people who are in the same hotel, on the same airplane, on the same cruise ship, who have refused to vaccinate and are showing symptoms of COVID.

It's almost like 'guilt by association'. We may not be guilty(infected), but we're on the same plane, ship, resort,,,, as people whom become infected, so we are affected as well.

Requiring people to have an "experimental" vaccine that has caused thousands to get sick and dozens to die is irresponsible and unconstitutional. All this for a virus with over a 99% survival rate.

The Constitution guarantees the rights of individuals, not businesses.

My personal thoughts on this (up until now I have been arguing a point, not offering my feelings about it):

When we get vaccinated, we get a card. This is the current situation. I wish the card was smaller, business-card sized so it could be laminated if someone wanted to do so, and kept in a wallet without folding it.

I would be FINE with having to present it for travel over the north or south border by car, or anywhere by boat or airplane. I would also be FINE with people being told they cannot board the ship/plane without a match of that card to their ID.

I would ALSO be FINE with a stamp added to actual normal passports, to show that a person has received that (or any other) vaccine, so that no one would need that smaller card as long as they bring their passport - which also serves as identification, AND as - well - a passport.

I would be fine with any business having a policy: You may either enter and shop here wearing a mask, OR you may enter and shop here without one if you show us your card proving you were vaccinated. You may do either one.

I personally would love to go shopping without a mask on. I look forward to the day when it's considered acceptable to do it again. But I also enjoy the freedom I feel in knowing that I am immunized against the virus. As someone who is now free to enjoy my immunization, I have absolutely positively zero problem with showing anyone who wants to see it, that card. In fact I posted it on my facebook account, which is open to the public.

I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with showing their covid vaccine card. You can even cover up the ID number with a little post-it strip so they can see your name and the clinic's official stamp and the dates of whichever vaccine you had, but not your personally-identifying ID number.

It's really not a big deal, except to people who are choosing to make it one.

Well said.

OK, let's see - EXPERIMENTAL VACCINE? Nope, not even close

KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor Dashboard | KFF
Coronavirus vaccine development: from SARS and MERS to COVID-19 - PubMed


'THOUSANDS GET SICK? Nope again!

Myths and Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC


People dying by the dozens from the vaccine? TRIFECTA! Wrong on all THREE !

No detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.

Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC

Ok, YOUR turn to source where your 'facts' are coming from....

excellent comment. makes perfect sense.

If you open your link it states: “Vaccine passports are being developed or introduced in dozens of countries around the world and have been touted as a means for businesses that were shut during the pandemic to reopen safely.”
Thanks to our governor, our state hasn’t been shutdown. Unlike states that had oppressive mandates, we have remained mostly open and have faired as well or better than those states with oppressive mandates. Are you really trying to spin the idea that if a state like Pennsylvania, with oppressive mandates, used a vaccine passport to reopen, it would constitute less government regulation than Florida’s policy?!? The concept you are trying to spin is truly absurd.

That sounds a lot like, "if you have nothing to hide then you won't mind allowing the police to search your house." No, it's not the same level of intrusion but it is still an intrusion.

My personal opinion is I've seen enough and experienced enough that I value my freedom and my privacy; I want to protect mine and protect others as well. What frightens me is the argument that I should be willing to give up my freedom and privacy because someone else is willing to give up theirs.

They can but they won't because they are really only concerned with one thing - the bottom line, and don't want to alienate the anti-maskers who claim their "Rights" are being infringed (the same folks who had no problem with the freedoms they lost after 9/11 with the Patriot Act because it was them there darn A-rabs!).

Untrue statement. The Flu has killed way more people according to the CDC
 

Flu about 60,000 a year since 2010. Not saying that Covid is not a huge pandemic, but keep to the facts as reported by CDC. Also keep in mind that every Covid death is reported. The Flu data is estimated. Still, don't downplay the flu. Just saying.

I can't believe that we would put something so racist into existence. Your poorer communities may not have the funds for the vaccine and now you want them to carry a card for travel, to be employed, to go to the grocery store, or possibly community events? Isn't that the argument people use for against an ID to vote? or Maybe we should put a picture on it, a state stamp, a magnetic code and use it as your ID to vote too. Just saying.

The vaccine is being paid for and provided by the US Government, there is no cost for the vaccine.

There are groups that a vaccine passport would discriminate against but none of them are based on race.

Come on, as a MD you have to know better than that. What is the point of a worldwide vaccination program that does not curb the spread of disease. Are we just protecting individuals one at a time??? What kind of vaccine raises antibodies to a virus but the person can still catch the disease and spread it??? Again, it seems to come down to one article that questioned whether a vaccinated individual could temporarily harbor enough virus in their nasopharynx to spread COVID for a short time. And the authors were simply questioning it and suggested more research is needed.

But the reasons I oppose a "vaccine passport" were listed explicitly in a previous post

You're right, Rick. When I said this in the original post:

"Our governor has said he will prohibit vaccine passports... Conservatives are not fond of government interference in general, but they support this proposal."...

I thought readers would know the proposal is to prohibit vaccine passports, not require them, because the proposal is described in a preceding sentence. But I get it, we all read social media quickly... because there's so darn much of it... that we sometimes don't get the whole picture. I'm guilty of it too. And the fact that the title of the thread is "Vaccine Passports?" might lead some to believe that that is the proposal in question.

Thanks for pointing that out. I have made the revision accordingly in my original post.

It's not like that at all. It's more like: if you're not planning on robbing the bank or passing a bad check, you won't have any problem with showing your ID when you get to the teller.

What happens in YOUR house - is between you and your household.

You can't have it both ways. You can say "this baker can refuse service to a customer because of the baker's religious beliefs" but you can't turn around and then say "this baker can refuse to allow you into the building without a mask or proof of immunity."

Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as it doesn't violate the customers' civil rights (except in the case of that baker and his religious beliefs, apparently). But if you come knocking at my door, and I tell you that you can't come in unless you show me your ID, you have the right to refuse to show it. And I have the right to refuse to allow you in.

Easy peasy.

Hi Swoop, and thanks for weighing in with your unique perspective!

I am not spinning any concept at all. Where have I expressed my opinion on the pros and cons of banning or allowing a vaccine passport? In fact in a follow up to my original post I emphasized that the point of the thread is not the pros and cons of a vaccine passport. It's about conservative/liberal values, overlap of those values, and the need to work together.

But I forgive your insulting comment that my writing is absurd. I realize you misunderstood. Bless your heart.

Somehow you are trying to represent the governor’s position against a vaccine passport as more government interference as opposed to less. That is the spin I am referring to. I did not comment on the pros or cons of a vaccine passport, just on your assertion that the governor’s stance is somehow more government regulation...

Let each business make their own requirements. If you enter a business that requires a immunization passport and you don't care for that, then you can go elsewhere. Vice Versa as well. Each business and individual can make their own decision and suffer the consequences.

You do that and you’ve started down a slippery slope. You are are referring to private businesses that are open to the general public, not private clubs that control who their members are and what they can do.
So what would be the justification for discriminating against those without a passport? Safety of others or to punish those who choose not to get the vaccine? Because either way, you are opening up Pandora’s Box...