[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

As far as I am concerned, as soon as they start distributing it here, I'm going back to normal. I always wash my hands during the day, due to my travels overseas. I do not like to get physically close to people anyway so I always have social distanced. BUT, I have no intention of wearing a mask anywhere, unless it is mandated by a legitimate law. This is one step in the direction of giving us our freedom back.
Thanks to a great leader cutting the red tape and getting this pushed forward, we have a vaccine in months rather than years. The whole world is better for it, because the vaccine would not have been released anywhere else this fast either if not for the leadership here in the U.S. of A. Argue all you wish, but you know it's fact.

The Pfizer vaccine is just one of many. The Moderna vaccine is like a sister vaccine to the Pfizer, very similar. There are about 3 more vaccines that might be sold in the US. One of them may end up as the World standard. It is too early to tell. Other countries have their own internally produced vaccines. China and Russia have been giving out doses to their citizens for weeks. Even Australia has one under development.

The 3rd world needs a vaccine that can be stored at room temperature so that leaves out Pfizer and Moderna. The JnJ vaccine coming out in January is a room temperature type vaccine. It could be the best seller. There are more vaccines that I am not aware of.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

That is our feeling as well, we can burn our masks

That IS a nice hope, a nice dream. But, reality is saying otherwise.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Byte1

As far as I am concerned, as soon as they start distributing it here, I'm going back to normal. I always wash my hands during the day, due to my travels overseas. I do not like to get physically close to people anyway so I always have social distanced. BUT, I have no intention of wearing a mask anywhere, unless it is mandated by a legitimate law. This is one step in the direction of giving us our freedom back.
Thanks to a great leader cutting the red tape and getting this pushed forward, we have a vaccine in months rather than years. The whole world is better for it, because the vaccine would not have been released anywhere else this fast either if not for the leadership here in the U.S. of A. Argue all you wish, but you know it's fact.

I'd be a bit careful about that. The vaccine is going to require two doses. About a month apart. The first will be about 50% effective in preventing the vaccine and the second about 95% effective. I'll go back to normal after the second dose.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

There are more vaccines that I am not aware of.

[skip0358]

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I'd be a bit careful about that. The vaccine is going to require two doses. About a month apart. The first will be about 50% effective in preventing the vaccine and the second about 95% effective. I'll go back to normal after the second dose.

I guess I should have mentioned the "two" doses instead of assuming that others knew what I was thinking. I probably should have learned by now that others can not read my mind, even though my spouse assures me that she can.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by skip0358

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

As they say, NO vaccination is a 100% effective. The flu shot is only 30-60% effective. Supposedly, this COVID vaccination is about 95% effective, making it one of the most amazing accomplishments of the century....IF it turns out to be a valid statement after mass inoculations are behind us.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by skip0358

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

Well, It IS being given out on an emergency use only basis. And they EXPECT symptoms to occur. And some may be moderate, but it is better than taking a chance on getting the full, terrible effects of the actual Pandemic. It is a calculated risk to society worth taking.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

As they say, NO vaccination is a 100% effective. The flu shot is only 30-60% effective. Supposedly, this COVID vaccination is about 95% effective, making it one of the most amazing accomplishments of the century....IF it turns out to be a valid statement after mass inoculations are behind us.

Effective does NOT mean a once in a lifetime vaccine. It just means that in their trial population (40,000 I believe) it has given a degree of protection against the worst outcomes of CV like hospitalization and death for 95% of the infected trial volunteers. The time-lapse for protection might be for 3 months, 3 years, or maybe (? unlikely) for a lifetime. Too early to say.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Effective does NOT mean a once in a lifetime vaccine. It just means that in their trial population (40,000 I believe) it has given a degree of protection against the worst outcomes of CV like hospitalization and death for 95% of the infected trial volunteers. The time-lapse for protection might be for 3 months, 3 years, or maybe (? unlikely) for a lifetime. Too early to say.

You are mistaken in your explanation of how the effectiveness of the vaccine was calculated. In the Pfizer vaccine study there was ~95% protection against clinical COVID meaning the patient was ill with COVID whether mild moderate or severe. It did not look at subclinical disease so some vaccinated persons might have caught COVID but not developed any symptoms but still be capable of spreading the virus to others.

The other way to express this is that for every 20 people who get sick with COVID, if they'd gotten the vaccine 19 would not have gotten sick. You are correct that the duration of immunity from being vaccinated is unknown. It will be important to understand that ongoing post-vaccination studies will partly answer that in the next year. One small factor is that while there is lots of COVID in the community, those who have been vaccinated may encounter the wild virus which will act as an immune booster for them. Once there is far less disease circulating that natural booster from exposure will disappear and later follow up studies may show a shorter duration of protection than the earlier studies.

This happened with chicken pox vaccine which when first offered seemed to be giving extremely long protection without breakthrough cases in those vaccinated children. But they were going to school with lots of unvaccinated kids and being exposed to wild chicken pox. Once almost every child was protected there began to be seen more breakthrough cases and a booster dose was recommended. That plan has worked very well.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

When I receive the Pfizer vaccine, when I finish getting both shots of the series and wait for the required length of time for my body to achieve immunity. Then the pandemic is over for me and mine. I can walk among the peoples of the world again, whether they have it or not.

I have already received shots for the seasonal flu and have been immunized against Herpes Zoster and Pneumonia (two kinds). I cannot get those diseases and give them to anyone.

If there were infants in our family I would be revaccinated for the childhood diseases, especially Pertussis, (whooping cough).

Just wondering why adults would consider getting the childhood diseases vaccination again. Aren't the children themselves required to be vaccinated against those diseases before they can attend school?

[Get real]

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

[Get real]

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Get real

<cartoon removed>

Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Unfortunately, it would take several paragraphs to explain all that is misleading about this picture. But in short:

Immune? Not on the day of vaccination and probably not until several days after the second dose. So true, not immune as the needle goes into your arm but on the path to immunity.

Mask? The vaccine prevents you from contracting the disease but possibly not from becoming infected. Masks protect those around you from the infection that you spread to them. Since you can still become infected and since others can still become sick, masks are still necessary.

Manufacturer Liability? This might already be a standard thing in the US. If not, the manufacturer would likely be happy spending a few more years on development and testing. We are at a current rate of about 400,000 deaths per year; would you rather hold the manufacturer harmless or continue to bet you or your loved ones won't be in next group of 400,000?

Why did I do this? Personal choice and a wise bet.

[biker1]

The control group gets the placebo. They won't have adverse reactions.

Originally Posted by Get real

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.